Any Grandfathering of Rune of Protection slotting?

[tidge]

I haven't had much opportunity to play with the latest updates, but after some play time I did decide to respec a character that had Invisibility changed to Infiltration (I didn't like it, it felt like I lost too much) and that character also had the Sorcery Pool's Rune of Protection. For the record: I'm neutral on the change to the recharge time. I was caught off guard but not being able to slot straight recharge enhancements,

 

Q1: For characters with previous Rune of Protection slotting, are recharge-only enhancements doing anything? That is, does a non-respec/'grand-fathered' build get a recharge bonus from them?

 

Normally I'd quickly unslot to test, but in this case I wouldn't be able to reslot. I haven't had the chance to play around with alternate slotting to test, so forgive this question as well:

 

Q2: Does the recharge in Defense set pieces contribute to the recharge time of Rune of Protection? (I'm not asking about Hami-Os, I assume that Membrane Exposures won't contribute to Recharge, if they even could be slotted.)

[Psyonico]

No. Any +rech in rune of protection is doing nothing. 

[MTeague]

Nothing makes it come back faster.  Not slotted recharge, not global recharge, not recharge buffs, NADA.

I believe only Speed/Burnout has any chance, by just finishing all your cooldowns now-dammit-now. But that's not going to be perma-able either.

can read up on their rationale / stated design intent here: 

 

[tidge]

OK, so aside the from the change to the recharge.... 75% of the change is to make it a mule?

[siolfir]

Basically. The changes were handled and iterated made it pretty clear without actually stating it that they were looking for people to use it reactively instead of proactively. 

 

It's not bad. It's just that those aren't the powers I tend to pick all that often - I'd rather have something that helps me all the time. YMMV. If nothing else, it frees up slots, and the rest of the pool getting a buff reduced the opportunity cost of getting the power in the first place.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

Nothing makes it come back faster.  Not slotted recharge, not global recharge, not recharge buffs, NADA.

I believe only Speed/Burnout has any chance, by just finishing all your cooldowns now-dammit-now. But that's not going to be perma-able either.

can read up on their rationale / stated design intent here: 

 

But Burnout only affects primary/secondary right? Do I have that wrong?

[MTeague]

41 minutes ago, arcane said:

But Burnout only affects primary/secondary right? Do I have that wrong?

 

So it would seem. I've never actually picked Burnout, so I was not aware of that. 

But the Wiki seems to agree wtih you;  https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Speed#Burnout 

 Burnout

Burnout allows you to instantly recharge all of your Primary and Secondary powers. Burnout is very expensive in terms of endurance, and reduces your maximum endurance slightly for 60 seconds after use. You must be at least level 14 and have two other Speed Powers before selecting Burnout.

 

bold italic = mine.

Sooooo looks like Absolutely Nothing speeds it up after all. 

 

 

[Mezmera]

They just wanted to reduce RoP because they thought it was OP so they took the possible max up time which you yourself could control of 75% to the training wheels easy math version where now it's arbitrarily set for you at 33% uptime.  Quite a drastic change.  Max 75% is too good I have no problem with that reduction but not letting you have any say in the recharge I don't like when 33% is too low which good builds would have that uptime of 40-45%.

 

If I was digging that deep into Sorcery I would slot Rune well to get the best bang for my buck so that either means a full set of Gladiator Armor's or at least 4 of the Unbreakable Guards all +5'd with the IO's that have recharge in it.  Which right there with Hasten already works out to be equal to or better than that 33% uptime.  

 

It's a big nerf to a niche power using a mechanic that'll set a precedent for using this locked in recharge for powers that are actually OP.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Mezmera

[MTeague]

I sort of feel lke the real problem / Snuffleupugus in the room, is the staggering amount of Global Recharge that can be stacked.

I'm also aware that my thoughts on that would be wildly unpopular.  If I were King for a day and did something about that, it would probably end Bastille-Day style.

[tidge]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

I sort of feel lke the real problem / Snuffleupugus in the room, is the staggering amount of Global Recharge that can be stacked.

 

2 hours ago, Mezmera said:

If I was digging that deep into Sorcery I would slot Rune well to get the best bang for my buck so that either means a full set of Gladiator Armor's or at least 4 of the Unbreakable Guards all +5'd with the IO's that have recharge in it.  Which right there with Hasten already works out to be equal to or better than that 33% uptime. 

 

As I wrote, I don't really have an issue with the decision to alter the up-time of Rune of Protection. I may be naive, but I pretty much only approached it as an alternative to carrying break frees. Now that the change has been implemented, I'm actually non-plussed that the 'best' value of investing slots is for global pieces since there is so little return on  slotting to try to 'enhance' the power. Customization of powers (via enhancements and set bonuses) is one of the best parts of the game IMO.

 

There are already a few powers that don't really benefit from slotting at all (e.g. Pacify... which is so bad it doesn't even mimic Placate for AT that can also take a Placate, but I digress) and I'm somewhat worried that the very good but very hard to optimize Unrelenting (also from the Presence pool) could get the same treatment as Rune of Protection. Unrelenting takes some investment in slotting to make sing, the set bonuses from Heals are as good as the ones from Resistance, and it also benefits from Global Recharge because of the shockingly long inherent recharge time. I can see someone try to convince me they'd be doing me a favor by rejiggering the Presence Pool by approaching Unrelenting as was Rune of Protection. I use Unrelenting on several different characters and ATs; I know it isn't everyone's cuppa.

[Mezmera]

39 minutes ago, tidge said:

As I wrote, I don't really have an issue with the decision to alter the up-time of Rune of Protection. I may be naive, but I pretty much only approached it as an alternative to carrying break frees. Now that the change has been implemented, I'm actually non-plussed that the 'best' value of investing slots is for global pieces since there is so little return on  slotting to try to 'enhance' the power. Customization of powers (via enhancements and set bonuses) is one of the best parts of the game IMO.

 

Yes you're a little naive, just a smidge.  If you're able to slot it well for resistance it would net you 30% resistance to all for 90s, down for 30-45s and then right back with 30% more resistance, that's real strong.  Plus then yes you'd also get mez resistance.  Now with the change yes it's a glorified break free and orange.  

 

I also like being able to affect powers through building myself with set bonuses and enhancements.  Removing a way to enhance myself with any of the attributes like recharge for instance is dumbing things down.  This is going to be the solution to various other worse offending powers going forward methinks.  

[Hedgefund]

Anyone want to buy some 50+5 Res/Rch IOs?  3 of those became my standard slotting for rune and if I sell these on AH, they'll lose the ++.  Once I get around to respeccing my old Rune toons, they'll need a good home .

[Hew]

22 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

Anyone want to buy some 50+5 Res/Rch IOs?  3 of those became my standard slotting for rune and if I sell these on AH, they'll lose the ++.  Once I get around to respeccing my old Rune toons, they'll need a good home .

Use them in hasten. Why are you selling them?

 

I am sure you have chars with hasten, and a +5/+4 pair gets max uptime on hasten from slotting...

[golstat2003]

23 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

Yes you're a little naive, just a smidge.  If you're able to slot it well for resistance it would net you 30% resistance to all for 90s, down for 30-45s and then right back with 30% more resistance, that's real strong.  Plus then yes you'd also get mez resistance.  Now with the change yes it's a glorified break free and orange.  

 

I also like being able to affect powers through building myself with set bonuses and enhancements.  Removing a way to enhance myself with any of the attributes like recharge for instance is dumbing things down.  This is going to be the solution to various other worse offending powers going forward methinks.  

 

And thus will be many more powers I skip altogether if possible. Or simply don't put any slots into them if its something I'm forced to take in my pri or secondary.

[golstat2003]

1 minute ago, Hew said:

Use them in hasten. Why are you selling them?

 

I am sure you have chars with hasten, and a +5/+4 pair gets max uptime on hasten from slotting...

 

If he already has Hasten those slotted with that (which I'm assuming he does if he's that much into building) then he has extra.

Edited May 19, 2021 by golstat2003

[Hew]

3 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

If he already has Hasten those slotted with that (which I'm assuming he does if he's that much into building) then he has extra.

Alts? Lots and lots and lots of alts? 😄

 

[siolfir]

@Hew: I would like to point out (because I initially thought the same thing) that @Hedgefund stated that they are 50+5 RES/Rch IOs (emphasis added), meaning they are from resistance sets that won't work in Hasten.

[Hedgefund]

36 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

Anyone want to buy some 50+5 Res/Rch IOs?  3 of those became my standard slotting for rune and if I sell these on AH, they'll lose the ++.  Once I get around to respeccing my old Rune toons, they'll need a good home .

 

Let me clarify, which it appears I need to do.

 

Typical Rune slotting was a level 50 Titanium Coating Resist/Recharge boosted 5 times + a level 50 Aegis Resist/Recharge boosted 5 times + Unbreakable Guard Resist/Recharge boosted 5 times.

 

As far as I know, resist IOs can't be slotted into Hasten.  Some of y'all may know something I don't.

 

My post was in jest by the way.  Just lamenting losing the uptime I had with Rune.

 

And now, for this thread... I'm out!

[Hew]

49 minutes ago, siolfir said:

@Hew: I would like to point out (because I initially thought the same thing) that @Hedgefund stated that they are 50+5 RES/Rch IOs (emphasis added), meaning they are from resistance sets that won't work in Hasten.

Doh!