knockback Proposed Knockback modifcation/fix

[golstat2003]

1 minute ago, Sunsette said:

 

I want *consistency* and I want *choice*. Explosive Blast and Energy Torrent are slot machines that fail at consistent mitigation. Power Push on Sentinels is pushing an enemy out of your own short reach, forcing you to do movement or use Aim for a range boost, both of which are times you're not doing anything else. Nova does great mitigation and good damage at significant personal risk to a blaster who isn't majorly IOed out or coordinating with a tank; with a tank, if you don't either finish them or have some way to keep the scatter, the tank is going to be more upset with you than pleased short of a very well-timed wipe prevention, which I think I've seen like... once.

 

Energy Blast currently offers bad, unreliable, occasionally powerful mitigation and unexceptional damage. A KB to KD IO changes it to 'below average damage with consistent but weak mitigation'. The natural thing to reach for in response is damage, but it's not the only thing that could be done to fix the set.

 

I'm behind new and better IO sets that include a KB to KD IO.

 

I'm not behind (and never will be) a global switch.

[Sunsette]

I don't think a global switch is a good solution, as I think I've said multiple times. At this point I've simply opened up to it being 'good enough'. But virtually any steps the HC devs take in the direction of addressing KB and powerset design with their general level of quality is something I will be happy with, I think.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sunsette

[Naraka]

6 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

 

I want *consistency* and I want *choice*.

 

And you have it!

 

6 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

Power Push on Sentinels is pushing an enemy out of your own short reach, forcing you to do movement or use Aim for a range boost, both of which are times you're not doing anything else.

 

Good lordy, you wasted 2.2 seconds!?  The end is near!

 

6 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

with a tank, if you don't either finish them or have some way to keep the scatter, the tank is going to be more upset with you than pleased short of a very well-timed wipe prevention, which I think I've seen like... once.

 

 

I could have somewhat been in agreement here as that could be somewhat inconvenient even if you controlled it....but we have the KB>KD IOs and a wide range Wormhole-like power available in pools for anyone to use so...

 

6 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

See now you're just being rude because someone disagrees with you, that's where conversation breaks down. It's one thing to go "eh maybe you're adding on" it's entirely another to call it a lie or someone a liar. You also completely misused what i said to argue a point i did not make. ST "not being great" early game is a fact, you don't get your strong ST attacks until later. AoE is king of CoH end game meta it's all about how good your AoE is while ST is still important, having good AoE is more important (again see EM changes). Though since you were rude, I've lost most interest in talking to you.

 

I'm not being rude, I'm being pedantic because you're mostly just presenting exaggerated scenarios and playing off as if the game is so tight and structured that anything outside of your scope of performance is an actual detriment.

 

No one called you a liar, I said your scenario is fabricated.  It's not like you named names or outlined a specific scenario.  You just said x person could do y and z can happen.  And I disagree with people for a living.  Persuading someone to even listen to you in the first place requires you to understand them and get them to express their views frankly after which exposing their weak arguments is easier.

 

AoE is king is exactly why a KB>KD toggle shouldn't exist and why the IO itself was a mistake.  Not having meta-level ST DPS in the early game does not support your narrative that KB is harmful as mitigation in the early game, wherever you can get it, is helpful and in cases where it's not needed, the likelyhood it will do the opposite and become harmful requires making up a scenario.

[Super Atom]

14 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

No one called you a liar, I said your scenario is fabricated.  It's not like you named names or outlined a specific scenario.  You just said x person could do y and z can happen.  And I disagree with people for a living.  Persuading someone to even listen to you in the first place requires you to understand them and get them to express their views frankly after which exposing their weak arguments is easier.

 

AoE is king is exactly why a KB>KD toggle shouldn't exist and why the IO itself was a mistake.  Not having meta-level ST DPS in the early game does not support your narrative that KB is harmful as mitigation in the early game, wherever you can get it, is helpful and in cases where it's not needed, the likelyhood it will do the opposite and become harmful requires making up a scenario.

 

This is the last reply you get and I'm not gonna be nice even if GM's keep telling me to be.

 

You called me a liar by saying the scenario is false, because apparently in your mind a low level team dealing with KB in a +2 TF couldn't possibly be killed. Spoilers bud, they can and do. If you don't grasp the concept of how knocking enemies all around can cause actual mitigation issues (the tank holding aggro and control patches/healing) and DPS issues (nobody properly using their AOE)  then you must exclusively play on +0-1.

 

KB is not "good" mitigation. It's minor mitigation that can be effective if used on bosses (ST) early game. Knocking enemies away from melee and AoE is a direct DPS loss especially when it isn't needed. "Support" on a whole is already struggling in CoH due to power creep so at end game KB is actually a huge negative and is bad. Early game it can have its use but overall the misuse is bad and makes KB viewed poorly. Your narrative that you're pushing that KB is some magical form of support mitigation and damage increases is not only false, it's intentionally misleading and at worst a sad attempt at elitism by suggesting everyone else is just using it wrong, what's the saying? "Am i out of touch, no it's all the kids who are wrong."

 

and don't give me that exaggeration nonsense of "I saved a defender by knocking the enemies away!" It's a complete lie and the scenerio basically never happens. next you're gonna tell me you primary healed Hami with aid self.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Super Atom

[Sunsette]

Naraka, whether or not you're trying to, you're being consistently belittling in your responses. I'm taking the time to explain my points; I'd appreciate it if you didn't simply assert the opposite is true or that a point is moot or fabricated.

 

If you're in a situation where you actually need consistent mitigation or damage, yeah, wasting 2 seconds repeatedly is not an effective use of mitigation or damage, since that's also the time period that you've taken the single enemy out. That's barely a net positive if you have teammates still up and can be a hard net negative if you're solo. Power Push being part of the Sentinel's main rotation means that it's poor mitigation and poor damage without the IO; the entire point of my response is to show that the design is poor and doesn't function intuitively without the KB to KD IO, which fits the general understanding of a build tax in game design. This goes double for the Nova response.

 

Taking Fold Space just to mitigate the usage of Nova is three powers and doesn't fit into most builds very well imx on Blaster, Sentinel, or Defender. Neat idea, didn't love the execution. I'd hardly propose making it easier to fit into most builds, either; it's an extremely powerful option, but one you have to basically orient your entire build around. My best concept for it so far is Energy + a blapping secondary with lower investment, since combat teleport allows for relatively quick repositioning in response to the different requirements for Nova and Torrent. It's not a good general use answer since most blast ATs have higher investment secondaries that cannot also replace functions of the primary.

 

Telling me to play another powerset when I want modernized fixes to the one I actually play and you apparently do not is something that I do not understand. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sunsette

[Koopak]

Knews flash, being pedantic and dismissive os considered rude in polite society. You also regularly ignore or dimiss arguments without a counter arguement which is neither constructive nor polite.

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

 

This is the last reply you get and I'm not gonna be nice even if GM's keep telling me to be.

 

You called me a liar by saying the scenario is false, because apparently in your mind a low level team dealing with KB in a +2 TF couldn't possibly be killed. Spoilers bud, they can and do. If you don't grasp the concept of how knocking enemies all around can cause actual mitigation issues (the tank holding aggro and control patches/healing) and DPS issues (nobody properly using their AOE)  then you must exclusively play on +0-1.

 

KB is not "good" mitigation. It's minor mitigation that can be effective if used on bosses (ST) early game. Knocking enemies away from melee and AoE is a direct DPS loss especially when it isn't needed. "Support" on a whole is already struggling in CoH due to power creep so at end game KB is actually a huge negative and is bad. Early game it can have its use but overall the misuse is bad and makes KB viewed poorly. Your narrative that you're pushing that KB is some magical form of support mitigation and damage increases is not only false, it's intentionally misleading and at worst a sad attempt at elitism by suggesting everyone else is just using it wrong, what's the saying? "Am i out of touch, no it's all the kids who are wrong."

 

 

I guess I'm supposed to take the "plays on +0-1" as an insult?

 

I play plenty of low level TFs and, like I said, what you're describing is *actual* fodder/standard fare and *at worst* it might cause slower kill speeds.  People can and do die even without KB present so attributing these aspects to KB is just more fabrication of scenarios to highlight your narrative.

 

Please, don't reply back to me.  The wicked talons of the meta have dug so deep into you, you'd only end up hurting yourself trying.

 

Just now, Sunsette said:

Naraka, whether or not you're trying to, you're being consistently belittling in your responses. I'm taking the time to explain my points; I'd appreciate it if you didn't simply assert the opposite is true or that a point is moot or fabricated.

 

If you're in a situation where you actually need consistent mitigation or damage, yeah, wasting 2 seconds repeatedly is not an effective use of mitigation or damage, since that's also the time period that you've taken the enemy out. That's barely a net positive if you have teammates still up and can be a hard net negative if you're solo. Power Push being part of the Sentinel's main rotation means that it's poor mitigation and poor damage without the IO; the entire point of my response is to show that the design is poor and doesn't function intuitively without the KB to KD IO, which fits the general understanding of a build tax in game design. This goes double for the Nova response.

 

Taking Fold Space just to mitigate the usage of Nova is three powers and doesn't fit into most builds very well imx on Blaster, Sentinel, or Defender. Neat idea, didn't love the execution. 

 

Well it wouldn't be wasting 2 seconds repeatedly, only occasionally unless you intentionally were trying to test how KB can absolutely extend a fight.  Outside of the many (*beat the dead horse*) means of controlling KB for gain, you also have other team-oriented solutions that you're not going to acknowledge purely to assert your point.

 

At the end of the day, you're the one trying to convince players like me of your position.  If you can't even convince someone who's trying to actually compromise with you and understand your arguments, I don't feel you'll get far with others.  From the beginning, I would agree to mitigating as much of the drawback of the IOs but beyond that, you'd be asking for even more freebies just to bust the rest of the game....the part that actually is still decent.

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, Super Atom said:

Putting a damage proc or any other kind of IO instead of a KB>KD is the issue. It's literally forcing you to because of the sets design being knockback the musical.

So....a 3 times a minute proc which isn't guaranteed to go off at all or over killed that minion with 5 hitpoints....is a justified reason for the 6th slot?  Wouldn't it be more benefiticial to put a 6th slot with KD or even put that slot someone where else?  Assuming screw the KB issue.  

 

tl;dr - Optional IOs are not mandatory.  And trying to pack in a lottery ticket 6th damage proc isn't a really good reason.

 

PS - P2W buff, KB->KD .  PRoblem solved.

[Super Atom]

Just now, Outrider_01 said:

So....a 3 times a minute proc which isn't guaranteed to go off at all or over killed that minion with 5 hitpoints....is a justified reason for the 6th slot?  Wouldn't it be more benefiticial to put a 6th slot with KD or even put that slot someone where else?  Assuming screw the KB issue.  

 

tl;dr - Optional IOs are not mandatory.  And trying to pack in a lottery ticket 6th damage proc isn't a really good reason.

 

PS - P2W buff, KB->KD .  PRoblem solved.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about in the first paragraph.

 

But the point was, You have to sacrifice some form of improvement, be it recharge/damage/accuracy/endurance etc etc to put the KB>KD in energy blast and it makes it a lower tier set (even if i love it and play it a lot) because of that one issue.

 

P2W buffs are for cowards 😞

[Sunsette]

8 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Well it wouldn't be wasting 2 seconds repeatedly, only occasionally unless you intentionally were trying to test how KB can absolutely extend a fight.  Outside of the many (*beat the dead horse*) means of controlling KB for gain, you also have other team-oriented solutions that you're not going to acknowledge purely to assert your point.

 

How is it not repeatedly when Power Push on Sentinels (and Doms, but they can mitigate this) is rotational? Power Push on blasters/corrs/defenders is not and consequently, as awkward as energy blast can get on those, they're still not nearly as bad. 

 

Honestly, you might be trying to be open minded here, but I actually get along much better with most of the people who are hard disagreeing? I'm not sure what you think being close-minded looks like. I have more common ground with people who play the same powersets and have different views than this interaction has been. And frankly I only have to convince people who play the powerset, and... so far that's going pretty well for me, we mostly agree on things even if not the precise form of solution. 

 

I've actually already acknowledged team mitigation repeatedly in the form of immobs (half of which remove all of the KB mitigation entirely and yet are still often preferable) and tanking, so please don't tell me I'm disregarding those; this is just an issue that extends both to team and solo play. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sunsette

[Koopak]

Naraka who are you even talking to anymore? I feel like you are projecting  ALOT of pent up frustration with the 'meta people' onto something just... Not even related.

 

The fact is energy blast is uniquely overloaded with KB and that KB as a mechanic is inconsistent due to how the games animations work. The set does not have any other benefits and Sunsette and Super Atom are highlighting that compared to other sets this is a performance issue, one made even worse by the negative side of KB being only mitigatable by an IO that deprives them of optimal slotting further pushing the set behind.

 

None of this thread is even related to low level content as IOs are not commonly slotted in low level characters. Even if they were I dont think its mad for people who love a set that underperforms to want to see improvement.

 

I outright oppose the OPs proposition, but thats because EBs issue SHOULD be resolved by a balance pass, not an enhancement change, and I believe @Sunsette and @Super Atom agree but really just want an improvement, any improvement, to their issue wbich is REASONABLE

[Outrider_01]

7 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I have no idea what you're talking about in the first paragraph.

6 slots in an attack, 5x slot from a range blast set covers your ACC/DMG/Rec/Endreduc.  6th is empty, If thats an additional damage proc its pretty piddly damage which has that 3x a minute chance to go off.

 

10 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

P2W buffs are for cowards 😞

You missed the point.  A P2W buff, that acts a global KD.  Cheap, easy to gain access to, and does not destroy any build as simply converts the "issue of WTFPWNBBQQQQQ!!!!! butt clenching rage" that KB causes.  Group bitching?  "Fine guys, give me a few minutes to run to the P2W vendor."  No powers set "balances", no waste of developer time, no player is gonna be become a pariah as long as they volunteer to do so....its just a simple fix to a small problem blown out of proportion by a minority.

[Super Atom]

Just now, Outrider_01 said:

6 slots in an attack, 5x slot from a range blast set covers your ACC/DMG/Rec/Endreduc.  6th is empty, If thats an additional damage proc its pretty piddly damage which has that 3x a minute chance to go off.

 

You missed the point.  A P2W buff, that acts a global KD.  Cheap, easy to gain access to, and does not destroy any build as simply converts the "issue of WTFPWNBBQQQQQ!!!!! butt clenching rage" that KB causes.  Group bitching?  "Fine guys, give me a few minutes to run to the P2W vendor."  No powers set "balances", no waste of developer time, no player is gonna be become a pariah as long as they volunteer to do so....its just a simple fix to a small problem blown out of proportion by a minority.

 

I mean, it covers it -sometimes-. Theres some tier6 bonus, procs, and other things that would make EB a more fun set instead of needing KB>KD or a temp buff (I'm never using those and it's not a real solution to anything)

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, Sunsette said:

 

How is it not repeatedly when Power Push on Sentinels (and Doms, but they can mitigate this) is rotational?

 

Honestly, you might be trying to be open minded here, but I actually get along much better with most of the people who are hard disagreeing? I'm not sure what you think being close-minded looks like. I have more common ground with people who play the same powersets and have different views than this interaction has been. 

 

I've actually already acknowledged team mitigation repeatedly in the form of immobs (half of which remove all of the KB mitigation entirely and yet are still often preferable) and tanking, so please don't tell me I'm disregarding those; this is just an issue that extends both to team and solo play. 

 

Did I say someone is close-minded?

 

As far as Power Push....I guess I could rehash them: you got hover, you got wall, you got juggle, you got immobilize, you got tp, you got pull, you got IOs, you got other powersets, etc.

 

And the reason I said you were going to disregard various mitigation points is because you used the word "repeatedly".  Maybe you just meant "at a higher frequency" but the way I read it, it was wait 2 seconds after every blast, which I feel is an exaggeration.

 

But I see a lot of exaggerating here primarily because, having played this game for so long, it's only gotten easier and I don't mean with just experience...I'm talking about everything.  It basically gets to the point people are seemingly framing KB as the killer of noobs and DPS when, in reality, there are no DPS checks in this game and half the time, you can't die regardless of how many mistakes you make and even if you do, you can get right back up yourself...but somehow I'm to assume KB is so detrimental, we need to sacrifice what semblance of the early-to-mid game is left to appease the insatiable thirst for more DPS?

 

*MAYBE* add a 40+ Alpha slot that enhances damage and morphs all KB to KD but leave the early game alone.

[Koopak]

4 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

6 slots in an attack, 5x slot from a range blast set covers your ACC/DMG/Rec/Endreduc.  6th is empty, If thats an additional damage proc its pretty piddly damage which has that 3x a minute chance to go off.

 

You missed the point.  A P2W buff, that acts a global KD.  Cheap, easy to gain access to, and does not destroy any build as simply converts the "issue of WTFPWNBBQQQQQ!!!!! butt clenching rage" that KB causes.  Group bitching?  "Fine guys, give me a few minutes to run to the P2W vendor."  No powers set "balances", no waste of developer time, no player is gonna be become a pariah as long as they volunteer to do so....its just a simple fix to a small problem blown out of proportion by a minority.

 Your assertion that damage procs are to small to matter is provably false. Procs often offer significant damage improvement else you wouldnt see hasten global recharge proc monster meta.

 

As for your p2w suggestion, see ALL my critique of OPs idea.

[Naraka]

13 minutes ago, Koopak said:

Naraka who are you even talking to anymore? I feel like you are projecting  ALOT of pent up frustration with the 'meta people' onto something just... Not even related.

 

The fact is energy blast is uniquely overloaded with KB and that KB as a mechanic is inconsistent due to how the games animations work. The set does not have any other benefits and Sunsette and Super Atom are highlighting that compared to other sets this is a performance issue, one made even worse by the negative side of KB being only mitigatable by an IO that deprives them of optimal slotting further pushing the set behind.

 

None of this thread is even related to low level content as IOs are not commonly slotted in low level characters. Even if they were I dont think its mad for people who love a set that underperforms to want to see improvement.

 

I outright oppose the OPs proposition, but thats because EBs issue SHOULD be resolved by a balance pass, not an enhancement change, and I believe @Sunsette and @Super Atom agree but really just want an improvement, any improvement, to their issue wbich is REASONABLE

 

I guess I'll reiterate my first point: Add enhancement values to the KB>KD IO (specifically Sudden Acceleration) and you solve that issue.  Then, at worse, you don't get all the set bonuses if you decide to put in other sets but that is a choice.

 

[EDIT]The funny thing is, I didn't know Overwhelming Force was a unique until corrected on it....because I've never bothered using it.  I still have a Peacebringer, FF/Energy, Energy/Plant and Grav/Energy but some would have you believe they cannot function without those IOs.  So take that context into account as well.

 

As for low level content, I was not the one to bring up low level content.  You can thank Super Atom for that tangent.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Naraka

[Super Atom]

8 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

As for low level content, I was not the one to bring up low level content.  You can thank Super Atom for that tangent.

 

 

 

Another lie from the guy who keeps lying. Big surprised. I'm real shocked. Big pikachu face over here.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Super Atom

[Sunsette]

Last post because I'm done:

 

I'm saying Energy Blast in its present form is not fun. It is brainless, random, frustrating, underperforming, and counterintuitive. A global KB to KD switch isn't my preferred solution because it actually doesn't fix any of that except the underperformance/frustration and it removes the visceral joy of launching fools to be pitied halfway across the neighborhood.

 

But at least it would only have three of those negative characteristics instead of five.

 

I'm not interested in arguing about it with someone who doesn't play the set and doesn't love those sparkles, Kirby dots, and watching Fake Nemeses ragdoll as much as I do. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sunsette

[Koopak]

Just now, Naraka said:

 

I guess I'll reiterate my first point: Add enhancement values to the KB>KD IO (specifically Sudden Acceleration) and you solve that issue.  Then, at worse, you don't get all the set bonuses if you decide to put in other sets but that is a choice.

 

As for low level content, I was not the one to bring up low level content.  You can thank Super Atom for that tangent.

 

 

 

First. I got that and I didnt hate it on its face, I peraonally think the IO is fine as is. In theory we are on the same side I just cant stand your "way of arguing" its rude, dismissive, and completely unhelpful to the conversation.

 

Second. If you followed Sunsette and Super Atom's conversation to this point youd see their issues are predominantly with Energy Blast and those issues are justified, and while your suggestion MIGHT help, it wont make a real difference, so their disagreement is reasonable.

 

Lastly. You KEEP making false equialance arguments that wanting a better solution so an entire powerset is not forced to choose between optimal slottingin its ST attacks or not shoving an enemy out of range with any and all possible attack chains is the same as power creep demands for more damage. Wanting your powerset to keep pace with the others is not unreasonable, seriously. And youve been in the threads on Regen with me, you have seen me argue vehemently that the widely considered underpowered armor is not and doesnt need huge raw buffs even though mained the set since day one of this game. So I hope that lends some credence to my argument that wanting EB to suck a little less is a reasonable desire.

[SwitchFade]

Ok, this thread convinced me:

 

Energy blast powers should ALL have 100% chance to knock back, at all times.

 

Every attack, on every mob hit, and it should be increased by 2 mag.

 

EB is KB. EB is love.

[Koopak]

2 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Ok, this thread convinced me:

 

Energy blast powers should ALL have 100% chance to knock back, at all times.

 

Every attack, on every mob hit, and it should be increased by 2 mag.

 

EB is KB. EB is love.

 

I mean then itd be more consistent and controlable add a tiny damage buff to compensate for the chase and positioning time and I'll roll a new energy blaster soon as the patch drops

Edited July 14, 2021 by Koopak

[Naraka]

5 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

So do you just get off on lying or

 

 

Did you say you weren't replying to me anymore.

 

I'll correct myself: you can thank Super Atom for directing the discussion to that tangent.  Me mentioning that mitigation in the low levels may have sparked you to create the narrative that KB in the low levels gets you killed (I disagree...a lot of things can get you killed, not just KB but we're not going to remove those things).  I only mentioned it because it's true, mitigation in the low levels can be on a premium and KB is mitigation.

 

It's interesting you decided to do what you accuse me of though.  Very not-hypocritical of you lol

 

3 minutes ago, Koopak said:

 

First. I got that and I didnt hate it on its face, I peraonally think the IO is fine as is. In theory we are on the same side I just cant stand your "way of arguing" its rude, dismissive, and completely unhelpful to the conversation.

 

Second. If you followed Sunsette and Super Atom's conversation to this point youd see their issues are predominantly with Energy Blast and those issues are justified, and while your suggestion MIGHT help, it wont make a real difference, so their disagreement is reasonable.

 

Lastly. You KEEP making false equialance arguments that wanting a better solution so an entire powerset is not forced to choose between optimal slottingin its ST attacks or not shoving an enemy out of range with any and all possible attack chains is the same as power creep demands for more damage. Wanting your powerset to keep pace with the others is not unreasonable, seriously. And youve been in the threads on Regen with me, you have seen me argue vehemently that the widely considered underpowered armor is not and doesnt need huge raw buffs even though mained the set since day one of this game. So I hope that lends some credence to my argument that wanting EB to suck a little less is a reasonable desire.

 

Firstly, I'm not even being that rude.  The only reason 2 people here are snapping is because they seemingly have no tolerance for snark.  Believe me, if I were being rude, I'd be moderated into oblivion like always.  Even still it wouldn't warrant some of the replies I've received.  At most, I have no issues with a heated discussion.  And the only real dismissive points come from lack of acknowledgement of how the game's balance has been kept thus far.

 

The second and third part really do fall in line with what I'm talking about in the first in that, you say this isn't about power creep or asking for more damage...but you are.  I know I've heard people put up that suggestion here too (just give Energy Blast a bump in damage) which is at least honest.  Saying Energy Blast falls behind other sets I just do not agree with.  Saying that the IO is a tax to catch up to other sets, I disagree with because if you value mitigating scatter for DPS, you are getting your value's worth and I do not feel you deserve more than maybe whatever the slot could get you in enhancements ontop of that.  No more, no less.

 

Outside of that, rebalancing the set (and likely other sets), I'm mainly silent on because that is just an issue for another thread but I'd likely lean on wanting to keep damage buffs to a minimum, not dish them out because some people feel their favorite powerset is unfairly hindered.

[Super Atom]

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

Did you say you weren't replying to me anymore.

 

I'll correct myself: you can thank Super Atom for directing the discussion to that tangent.  Me mentioning that mitigation in the low levels may have sparked you to create the narrative that KB in the low levels gets you killed (I disagree...a lot of things can get you killed, not just KB but we're not going to remove those things).  I only mentioned it because it's true, mitigation in the low levels can be on a premium and KB is mitigation.

 

When you openly lie literally using my name, I will absolutely respond to make you look foolish.

 

You started the conversation about low levels, I brought up things about low levels in response. Using whataboutism arguments like "lots of things get you killed not just KB" only makes you look more wrong btw

Edited July 14, 2021 by Super Atom
removed strawman changed for whataboutism

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

 

You started the conversation about low levels, I brought up things about low levels in response. Using strawman arguments like "lots of things get you killed not just KB" only makes you look more wrong btw

 

That's me trying to compromise a point.  Saying KB gets you killed is just dumb, tho.

[SwitchFade]

Hello, your local friendly neighborhood neo-post-regressive-pseudo-modernist here with a prediction...

 

Thread lock imminent.

 

In other news, nerf Regen.