Consideration...

[Ukase]

So...a returning player...all the way back from issue 2, maybe, crossed my path today. The fellow had found a build on the forums and had gotten his crab to 50, but was more than a bit overwhelmed with IOs and such. 

So, I helped him out, but not too much, where he'd have nothing to work towards, and then I get this tell asking how he should get Gift of the Ancients when there weren't any on the AH. 

Long story short, I explained how I would get them - but that some patience and come converters would be my tools to get it done. 

So I ask you, marketeers: We all know intuitively that the Gift of the Ancients recipes and crafted IOs are mostly going towards conversion into LotGs. Makes sense - the price of lotg is higher than GotA. 

But, isn't there some way we can ensure that there's always at least a few we leave behind for these folks that actually want the GotA ? I've been hashing it over in my brain, and other than me burning through far more merits and converters than I want, I can't think of a solution, other than having folks just be prepared to pay more for the GotA, even when they're really not that great. (at least, I don't think so. I can't think of a time I've used them in any of my builds. ) 

I just feel badly for these newer/returning players who know so little about the way our market works, that they genuinely have no idea how clueless they are. I gave them a copy of my guides to amassing wealth in game. It will be interesting to see if the seed takes root. 

In the meantime, let something get by you! There's new 50's that need that stuff. They don't all have to be LotGs. 

[iBot]

Interesting supply problem.  Certainly a consequence of our ability to convert from one set to another easily and those of us that figured out which ones give the best odds of becoming what we want.  Not certain of a simple solution that wouldn't then break a bunch of other things.  Would be nice if they could add some minor search features for the number of items listed so we don't have to manually scan for zeroes in the market.  I'd think that would then cause more people to list the IOs that have no supply.

 

Personally if I want an IO and there are none listed or a few but at a ridiculous (to me) price I simply buy one of the others and use the in set to convert to the one I want.  Probably not cost effective but it gets the job done faster than trying to convert something else in the same category.  And since I don't keep a stash of things around I don't have a readily available supply of recipes or crafting mats.

[Crysis]

I generally keep a big stash of what I consider all my “key” enhancements.  Stuff like LOTG’s, all the PVP uniques, Numina/Miracle +RECOVERY, Perf Shifter +END, etc etc.  And I have never sold a purple drop, always craft and stash.  I also keep a strong inventory of certain ATO’s and WinterO’s.

 

But after all that, I just generally BIN if price isn’t set at too rich of a premium, or buy nearby within set or an adjacent set and convert/flip into what I need.  

 

On the rare occasion like you mention that I’d need something that was fodder for converting into something worth more, well, there’s always something else to convert into that category if you are willing to blow some converters.  The RNG gods frown on me so often I end up with that trash more often than I’d like to admit.  So ultimately, it’s a gamble of whether or not you can convert into that fodder yourself just by luck or you (gasp) actually grab something more premium and down-convert within category to get what you really want.  And, for new players, hopefully realize what you are doing and ask yourself why you really wanted the duller penny of the two in first place.

[Yomo Kimyata]

To the problem that your new friend is having:

 

If he is from I2, then the whole invention system and the auction house will be new to him.  I suggest he runs the in-game University tutorial on crafting so he knows how to do that.  I suggest also checking out one or more guides on how the /AH works (although I admit the one I wrote may not be as newby -friendly as it could be). 

 

To the idea that there is no supply:

 

Poppycock.  These things trade all the time.  I buy and sell GotA every marketing day.  If the problem is that there is no supply at the price he wants to pay, then he needs to either pay up to buy it instantly, put in good bids that will fill in short order, or figure out a way to create them.  Just like every other item in the game.

 

To the (implied) idea that items should be priced according to their "inherent value" rather than their value as a LotG delivery vehicle:

 

*shrug*  This is the downside of practically free converters.  If converters didn't exist, then GotA would probably be a little cheaper, LotG would be a LOT more expensive.  But there is no way to put aside cheap IOs for someone who "really wants it as is".  I'd be happy to set him up with a full set or two if he asks, but I don't see a way to circumvent the bidding queue for "intent".

 

On 7/7/2019 at 11:00 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

It'll never last.  Too easy to generate more from other LoTG and other defense IOs. 

 

Now, it would be REALLY diabolical if s/he bought up every defense IO recipe and enhancement and reposted at 5mm inf higher.

 

[Ukase]

I looked this morning, and 15 of the GotA were for sale, for at least one of them. It's a set I largely ignore, so was unaware of anyone selling/listing them routinely.

The guide I gave to the fellow is not on these forums, and covers things in a way that a new player should be able to follow it, as I list specifically the steps I take, which sets I think will sell for a good price, and which ones I tend to avoid, and why I avoid them, and a lot more. Hopefully, he finds a way to get through it, and it doesn't suck the fun right out of the game for him. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

I would be surprised if a bid of 2mm for any of the pieces wasn't filled within a few hours.

[Siouxsie]

If he's willing to craft them and wait overnight for a buy order to fill, he can get the recipes for cheap, so it'll mostly be the cost of the orange salvage.

 

I normally buy uncommon recipes for conversion purposes since the materials were cheap.  Dealing with orange recipes is only something I've just started trying and noticed the prices fluctuate wildly with them.  At least in the GotA set.  Is such volatility normal for 'off' sets like this?

[iBot]

I tend to think the fluctuation that is apparent in the AH is mostly due to our lack of a full picture.  Since the AH is spread over all the servers, the small snapshot we get when we look at a particular item can look as though the price is changing wildly when in fact most prices have been pretty stable over the last 2 years.  I mean after that initial rush of "OMG the game is back!" I think we've hit a kind of equilibrium for most things since, as has been pointed out several times, almost everything in the game is pegged to the 100 merits pricing index.  Not to mention there are a sizable number of players that both sell low to sell fast and buy high to buy fast.  This can cause the snapshot price to bounce back and forth between extremes while the actual price point in somewhere in the middle.

[Ukase]

8 hours ago, Siouxsie said:

If he's willing to craft them and wait overnight for a buy order to fill, he can get the recipes for cheap, so it'll mostly be the cost of the orange salvage.

 

I normally buy uncommon recipes for conversion purposes since the materials were cheap.  Dealing with orange recipes is only something I've just started trying and noticed the prices fluctuate wildly with them.  At least in the GotA set.  Is such volatility normal for 'off' sets like this?

The problem with bidding on recipes is that they are then at a static level. Say...level 28. Then the character levels up to 29,30, etc...and the boost that the IO provides (aside from set bonus) diminishes compared to what an attuned version of the same IO would provide. In short - the new player would have to then learn how to sell one non-attuned and buy an attuned for roughly the same price - with different characters. 

In short - it's annoying for me - who is familiar with the process. I can't fathom trying to get a newer player to understand how to do it. In any event, he's all straight now. 

[Nerio72]

The problem is if you craft a bunch and put them up for sale some enterprising soul is gonna buy them up, convert to LotG and sell them for a profit, defeating the purpose 😕

[Yomo Kimyata]

59 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

The problem is if you craft a bunch and put them up for sale some enterprising soul is gonna buy them up, convert to LotG and sell them for a profit, defeating the purpose 😕

 

Reason 8.675,309 to not insta-sell everything at 5.  That is a sale that will rarely go to someone in genuine need, and will almost always go to a nefarious mustache-twirling marketeer.

[nax2]

niche items beget niche market considerations. any attempts at inorganically trying to manipulate this with the honor system will simply open up the opportunity for those of us who have wealth to make more of it and better deny those who actually want the items - and this is not specifically done to harm others, but because an opportunity is an opportunity. the best order of business is business as usual (a marketer in a high demand low supply area will happily serve inf and item seekers alike), or make / buy them yourself and donate it to the players you're trying to help.  the market as it is now remains in the long run the most effective middle man between those of us trying to make inf and those of us trying to buy items, but this will inevitably lead back to my opening statement - niche items, niche considerations.

 

the main thing for me here is that regardless of all of this, the game gives plenty of tools to secure the set you need in an ultimately relatively short period of time.  sure, it could be faster and cheaper if they were sold more frequently and less involved in rare roulette schemes, but that is also a small reason why we can relatively easily convert into the set on our own.

Edited August 4, 2021 by nax2

[tidge]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:50 PM, nax2 said:

niche items beget niche market considerations. any attempts at inorganically trying to manipulate this with the honor system will simply open up the opportunity for those of us who have wealth to make more of it and better deny those who actually want the items - and this is not specifically done to harm others, but because an opportunity is an opportunity.

 

A-yup. The advice I'm going to offer isn't likely to go over well (and isn't radically different than what was described in the OP), but if someone is looking specifically for Gift of the Ancients and can't find them on the market:

1. Explain why (converters, fungibility) they aren't available.
2. Explain how to buy other level 15 things to play converter roulette with to try to land on Gift of the Ancients.
3. Offer tips about certain things that they might land on while playing converter roulette that they can sell for beaucoup Inf.

I can't guarantee that the player in question will enjoy, or even understand, why they have to go through this effort for "scrub" pieces, but they will be on the path to learning more about the AH which can only help them when they go looking for other pieces.