Necro/Time Viability? Strengths?

[Fr0sTByTe_369]

Hey all, so I just got back into CoX this month and have missed this game so much. It's been a while however and I am just starting to realize how much I've forgotten. To get to the meat and potatoes, how viable is this combo at AV/GMs and ITF/LRSFs? What is the strengths? I'd assume melee debuffing would be preferred, but I read @Warlawk Time primer and @Bopper's Not A Guide and it seems I've just got myself all tangled up in information overload. Would building for AoE Procs hurt my debuffing ability? Would building for either procs or debuffing prevent perma-Chrono Shift? Would building for all of the above sacrifice def/res? 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Fr0sTByTe_369

[Neiska]

I only have limited experience with Necromancy, but I have leveled several /Time MMs. I think you may struggle a bit against AVs and GMs, but that is me musing, mostly to a lack of either focused damage or -regen debuffs. Where it would shine though would be in AoE situations, as you have both +def and heals, with your undead self taps and lich's CC, plus your debuff toggle and AoE slow effect. So if I was doing a Undead/Time, I would focus on the debuffs and additional effects. 

 

But /time is a strong secondary, strong enough to match with any pet set really.

[StrikerFox]

It should be a strong combo. Power Boosted Farsight would provide around +21% def, Edict + Call to Arms IO uniques +10%, Maneuvers +4% = +35% def for all pets. Moderately slotted Time's Juncture's -15% tohit debuff. Debuffs from Lich.

 

With pet resistance unique IOs, all pets would be at +61% to S/C/N/T/P, and +35% to L/F/E.

 

It's not too tough to get perma Chrono Shift (and Hasten). About +82% global recharge + Hasten slotted with 2 recharge IOs (+83% recharge) and Chrono slotted aggressively (+95% recharge). Both powers active provide +120% recharge. The example below permas them both. 

 

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[Fr0sTByTe_369]

4 hours ago, Neiska said:

I only have limited experience with Necromancy, but I have leveled several /Time MMs. I think you may struggle a bit against AVs and GMs, but that is me musing, mostly to a lack of either focused damage or -regen debuffs. Where it would shine though would be in AoE situations, as you have both +def and heals, with your undead self taps and lich's CC, plus your debuff toggle and AoE slow effect. So if I was doing a Undead/Time, I would focus on the debuffs and additional effects. 

 

But /time is a strong secondary, strong enough to match with any pet set really.

 

 

See, I saw time crawl was a -regen but I guess it wouldn't be enough? 

 

 

4 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

It should be a strong combo. Power Boosted Farsight would provide around +21% def, Edict + Call to Arms IO uniques +10%, Maneuvers +4% = +35% def for all pets. Moderately slotted Time's Juncture's -15% tohit debuff. Debuffs from Lich.

 

With pet resistance unique IOs, all pets would be at +61% to S/C/N/T/P, and +35% to L/F/E.

 

It's not too tough to get perma Chrono Shift (and Hasten). About +82% global recharge + Hasten slotted with 2 recharge IOs (+83% recharge) and Chrono slotted aggressively (+95% recharge). Both powers active provide +120% recharge. The example below permas them both. 

 

 

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Thank you, I'll check out this build tomorrow evening when I get back on my pc. Any particular style of play / general rotation(?) you or recommend for this build? 

 

[Meknomancer]

I made and played one of these hoping it would be as good as necro/dark with time juncture's - to hit making up for fearsome stare. Its not a bad toon just not as good or fun as /dark, pretty sure i took a load of slotting help from someone elses' /time toon:

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

NECRO TIME: Level 49 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Necromancy
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Zombie Horde            SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(9), EdcoftheM-PetDef(9), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(11)
Level 1:    Time Crawl            TmpRdn-Acc/EndRdx(A)
Level 2:    Gloom                GldJvl-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(11), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), CldSns-%Dam(13), Apc-Dam%(15)
Level 4:    Temporal Mending        Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(15), Prv-Heal(17), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg(19)
Level 6:    Enchant Undead            EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8:    Time's Juncture            HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(21)
Level 10:    Hover                LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(37)
Level 12:    Grave Knight            SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), TchofLadG-%Dam(25), AchHee-ResDeb%(25), SlbAll-Dmg/EndRdx(27), SlbAll-Build%(27)
Level 14:    Mystic Flight            BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16:    Distortion Field        Lck-%Hold(A), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(23), GldNet-Dam%(46)
Level 18:    Soul Extraction            SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(43), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(43), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(46)
Level 20:    Time Stop            GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40), GldNet-Dam%(40), Lck-%Hold(43), EssofCrr-Acc/EndRdx(49)
Level 22:    Hasten                RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 24:    Maneuvers            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(34), ShlWal-Def(34), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 26:    Lich                HO:Endo(A), SprMarofS-Dmg(31), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(33), SvrRgh-PetResDam(33), CldSns-%Dam(33), HO:Perox(34)
Level 28:    Farsight            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Cyto(29)
Level 30:    Tactics                GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(31), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(31)
Level 32:    Dark Empowerment        EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35:    Slowed Response            AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(36), TchofLadG-%Dam(36), ShlBrk-%Dam(36)
Level 38:    Chrono Shift            RechRdx-I(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(39), PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(39), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(39)
Level 41:    Dark Embrace            StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(42), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48)
Level 44:    Soul Tentacles            TraoftheH-Acc/EndRdx(A), TraoftheH-Dam%(45), Ann-ResDeb%(45), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dam%(46)
Level 47:    Soul Storm            GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(47), Lck-%Hold(47), GldJvl-Dam%(48), GldNet-Dam%(48), EssofCrr-Acc/EndRdx(49)
Level 49:    Oppressive Gloom        Acc-I(A)
Level 1:    Supremacy    
Level 1:    Brawl                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Sprint                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Rest                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Swift                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Hurdle                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Health                Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(5), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5)
Level 2:    Stamina                PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3), EndMod-I(3)
Level 1:    Zombie    
Level 12:    Grave Knight    
Level 26:    Lich    
------------

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[Meknomancer]

I don't play the above solo vs av/gm, you can fall asleep it takes so long on /time compared to the better debuff sets, like 5 times as long.

[Neiska]

10 hours ago, Fr0sTByTe_369 said:

 

See, I saw time crawl was a -regen but I guess it wouldn't be enough? 

 

 

Its not just a matter of -regen, its also how much DPS you have with that. And while I have never tried Necro/Time, I don't think it has enough combined ST DPS with the regen debuff it has. I am not saying its impossible or anything, I am just saying I wouldn't expect it to be robots/traps level. And it's hard to say without seeing the actual build and numbers.

 

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

 

Its not just a matter of -regen, its also how much DPS you have with that. And while I have never tried Necro/Time, I don't think it has enough combined ST DPS with the regen debuff it has. I am not saying its impossible or anything, I am just saying I wouldn't expect it to be robots/traps level. And it's hard to say without seeing the actual build and numbers.

 

I dont think it can, I have many necro builds and none of them can take down a GM/AV.

The only consistent one I've had has been a demon/cold. Probably demon/therm, /Traps definitely, and don't know about /Poison. 

I've heard /dark but have never seen it. /Rad I dont think you could keep your pets alive long enough, and the rest i seriously doubt. 

 

 

[Fr0sTByTe_369]

So mainly this comp would be useful in tf/sfs if I'm comprehending correctly

[StrikerFox]

Necro dps seemed pretty good when I was pylon testing 1.5 years ago. They were middle of the pack behind Thugs, Demon and Ninja; ahead of Mercs, Beasts and Bots. 

 

I vaguely remember someone saying the Lich will have an increase in dps if one of his upgrades isn't applied (Don't recall which one). One of the upgrades gives him 2 debuff/mez powers that do zero damage. By omitting it, he cycles to his damaging attacks more frequently. He had both upgrades when I tested.

 

I have a Necro/Dark MM. I would love to test pet dps against an AV/GM if someone's got a tank to hold aggro. I won't use any Dark powers to simulate Time's pathetic offense. Haha!

[The_Warpact]

16 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

 

 

I have a Necro/Dark MM. I would love to test pet dps against an AV/GM if someone's got a tank to hold aggro. I won't use any Dark powers to simulate Time's pathetic offense. Haha!

Well the test is to solo a AV/GM, so what do you need a tank for?😉

Did you have a tank aggro the pylon when you tested it?

Come on now put your abilities and your build against a GM, the Ghost of Scrapyard is good, I think Adamastor foot stomp would scatter/kill the zombies too much. Those 2 are the easiest to spawn, I use Scrapyard as a test for all my MMs.

 

[SmalltalkJava]

Time is strong on everything.  farsight is great. The debuffs are awesome.     I run a beast and also a Merc /time MM.   It works great with them. 

[StrikerFox]

14 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Well the test is to solo a AV/GM, so what do you need a tank for?😉

Did you have a tank aggro the pylon when you tested it?

Come on now put your abilities and your build against a GM, the Ghost of Scrapyard is good, I think Adamastor foot stomp would scatter/kill the zombies too much. Those 2 are the easiest to spawn, I use Scrapyard as a test for all my MMs.

 

 

Haha! Some comments/replies made it sound like Necro/Time or Necro pets in general couldn't produce the damage to defeat an AV/GM. I didn't use a tank to pylon test but did do it on beta using Provoke. The pets didn't take any damage that way with the MM hovering a distance away.

 

Adamaster was a breeze with Necro/Dark by just toggling Darkest Night and putting Twilight Grasp on auto. Even went afk a couple times and just let the pets do their thing. How do you stop the Ghost of Scrapyard from running all over the place, are you using Provoke?

[The_Warpact]

53 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

 

Adamaster was a breeze with Necro/Dark by just toggling Darkest Night and putting Twilight Grasp on auto. Even went afk a couple times and just let the pets do their thing. How do you stop the Ghost of Scrapyard from running all over the place, are you using Provoke?

As soon as Darkest Night hits he is off. I spammed soul tentacles, soul storm, and had the lich and Fluffy on his ass and we stopped him long enough. But, that fight was all over the graveyard. I got him once with soul storm it didn't animate just had the glowies around him, sort of a jip I wanted to see his hillbilly ass up in the air.

I had a couple times with Adamastor do his foot stomp gave me trouble but ultimately he fell.

The only MM I ever used provoke on was my bots/ff who I pvp with back on live, I needed intimidate to vs /dark MMs. It stopped them from spamming Howling Twilight (stun).

Most of the time to keep their attention on me I hit them with attacks, spam debuffs, it works but its a pain sometimes.

My builds are usually real tight so I can't afford the presence pool.

[Meknomancer]

Ghost of Scrapyard is probably the easiest test for your mm. Almost anything can solo it, anything with /dark /rad /traps /thermal /time (if you don't mind an epicly long fight) /cold /elec /nature (another epicly long fight) . You don't even have to try hard or mini/max stuff now that you can take group fly ranged pets make it very simple and GoS can't do a lot about it. So long as you don't get mezzed and can keep applying debuffs or maintain debuff toggles. Other GM's can be a little more awkward. Soloing Lusca when tentacles are splattering your pets. Deathsurge when he starts draining them and does his area effects. Dark i find the easiest by a mile simply because you can stick darkest night on throw out a couple tar patches and stick your heal on auto. You only need to click hasten and macro tar patch and howling twilight after that. Haven't tried solo with a /pain or /emp. Bots was the only one that i could stand to try with force fields. I don't do empathy toons. Trick arrow feels awful to play, seems like blasters have a decent version with tactical arrow and every other AT gets junk . Poison is so bad on mm's i wouldn't consider it, its a set that definitely needs noxious gas replacing with fender/corr venomous version.

[StrikerFox]

Here's the Adamastor vid. Also solo Lusca vids. Tentacles weren't too bad. First few only using Darkest Night and Twilight Grasp. Wanted to speed things up, so added Fluffy, Tar Patch and Lore pets to the latter tentacles. Couldn't do enough damage to Lusca's head with just Necro pets. Around 35k HP, drops down to 33k and regens back to full. So used all powers to finish Lusca off. I played it poorly. Some pets died, I didn't use Soul Extraction all the time and forgot to upgrade when resummoning. I'll try Ghost of Crapyard sometime soon.

 

 

 

 

 

[Colder]

my necro/cold can do +2 AVs with relative ease, I can do +3 but it gets hairy. it's mostly due to benumb and sleet/freezing rain copy. 

 

much easier on my thugs/rad but coldergrave can def do it.

 

 

edit: I know the post was about necro/time but thought I'd share

Edited October 10, 2021 by Colder