Dune (2021)

[GraspingVileTerror]

I had this plan to write a review comparing this latest version to the book, Lynch's movie, and the miniseries (and maybe even the computer games, but I've really only played one of the many Dune games) . . . and then I realized something:

I don't remember which versions had which scenes and revisions!

I'm going to have to reimmerse myself in all the various versions again.

 

But, even without drawing comparisons (or at least no specific, verified comparisons), I have to say . . . 

Yeah.

Yeah, they fuckin' nailed it.

A few things felt different than I remembered, but nothing was wrong or bad.  Like the Baron was far less manic and maniacal than I remember, but still just as sinister and terrifying (perhaps moreso, actually).

Casting was spot-on!  Best version of the Duke that I can remember.

The worms look like something off the cover of the board game printed in the 70s, and I am here for it!

 

Going to give this a rating of:  Highly recommended.

[Optimum_Man]

Agree on all fronts. The one thing that bugs me is intentionally creating a two part story with no guarantee as of yet there will be a part 2. But this version was excellent to say the least.

[GraspingVileTerror]

I appreciate them pacing it out the way they did.  It's just WAY too much content to compress in to a single film.  Lynch's Dune kind of proves that.

I do appreciate the miniseries hitting more of the story, but this movie feels punchier than I remember the miniseries being.

But, as I said, I should honestly give those older versions a fair shake to see if I am remembering accurately.

[Optimum_Man]

Yeah the director has said that he wasn’t going to be able to tell the story in one installment, too much ground to cover. But the fact that he isn’t certain he’s going to get a chance at a sequel makes me very nervous. I want this version to succeed.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Kinda excited to see it. It looks beautiful, and not just talking about the cast here.

However, I'm still not going to be tempted out to the flicks just yet (UK isn't very safe plague-wise right now and won't be for some time.)

 

Villeneuve is not happy about the HBO Max simul-release: while it guarantees some returns, it's a fraction of what it'd make even in COVID-era cinemas, and probably not enough to fund the second episode under normal circumstances. WB might greenlight it anyway though - in the hopes that things will have settled down by the time Part 2 is released, and then you can do a back-to-back release with Part 1 in a smaller number of screens.

[Optimum_Man]

1 hour ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Kinda excited to see it. It looks beautiful, and not just talking about the cast here.

However, I'm still not going to be tempted out to the flicks just yet (UK isn't very safe plague-wise right now and won't be for some time.)

 

Villeneuve is not happy about the HBO Max simul-release: while it guarantees some returns, it's a fraction of what it'd make even in COVID-era cinemas, and probably not enough to fund the second episode under normal circumstances. WB might greenlight it anyway though - in the hopes that things will have settled down by the time Part 2 is released, and then you can do a back-to-back release with Part 1 in a smaller number of screens.

Yeah this simultaneous release on streaming services is really pissing off everyone in Hollywood, but we’re still in a pandemic. They can’t do much about that.

[Haijinx]

Its already a hit outside of the US, where its been out a month.

 

I think a sequel is pretty much a given.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

13 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Its already a hit outside of the US, where its been out a month.

 

I think a sequel is pretty much a given.

 

It's made $129m so far worldwide (excluding UK and a couple of other territories), and $17.5m "domestic" on its opening US weekend.

$147m sounds like a lot, but on a budget of $165m, not good. It's going to need to do pretty well in the US and UK to make up ground.

I'd still be confident in a sequel, though, because leaving it hanging at this point doesn't let you gamble on people coming to see the conclusion and the original together (as per Endgame, when a fair chunk of people also went back to see Infinity War).

 

Hollywood accountancy is a dark art at the best of times¹, but a rough rule of thumb is that notional breakeven = 3x budget. Studios take home a bit less than one third, once you take out the cinema owners' cut, distributor's cut, and any talent or director cuts if they've pulled an Alec Guinness and got themselves gross points^2.

 

¹and the worst - having been on the pointy end of it and lost half a year's worth of wages. If you ever get the chance to work there, find out what whoever you're working for actually does, especially if they call themselves a "producer". Also, make sure they actually already have the money and you have a rock-solid contract. Even then...

 

²A cut of the actual, undiluted gross box office revenue, instead of "monkey points" - a cut of net profits. Which given studios can move declared profitabilty levels with "rolling breakeven" tricks, y'aint never gonna get paid unless it's a smash.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Haijinx]

Thats pretty much a hit in pandemic times though, isnt it?

 

Though I see your point, it will have to more than double its budget just to do ok.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

For pandemic-era movies, not bad. Which means a gamble on Part 2 is possible.

For comparison with established(ish) franchise movies: Shang-Chi did $416m ($75m US domestic) and No Time To Die $460m ($110m).

Both off wider numbers of screens booked, though.

[Haijinx]

Bout to add $20 to the total today.  First movie for me in theater since covid.  

 

Looking forward to it. 

[krj12]

Saw it last night.  Pretty decent movie, but seemed to plod along at certain points.  It does a good job capturing

( from what I remember ) the gist of the book.  Haven't read the book in decades, probably need to re-read again.

 

[Greycat]

One question before saying anything else - was it the *movie* that had this mixed so that the soundtrack was beating me up, or just my theater seeming to have it cranked up to 11... no, wait, 11 was the quiet part... Just got back and I honestly feel physically beaten up by the sound.

 

 

OK, that question being out there:

1, visually... I don't think I've seen "concept art executed beautifully on screen in the final movie" so well before. Some of those scenes looked like they could have been just painted.

 

2. The baron. I love this version and how he was executed. Especially the floating. It didn't look ridiculous.

 

3. There's *one* line or interaction that's always bugged me for not being in any of the movies so far. Just after that first duel, As Paul's getting accepted, might start thinking "ok, killed someone, not so bad, and good things happened because of it," his mother asks him "How does it feel to be a murderer?" and it kind of knocks him back to earth with "oh, yeah, killed someone." No movie's had that line. This is the first one I haven't really felt like it needed it.  It's a weird thing to get hung up on, yes, and it's 100% me, but still...

 

And yes. Looking forward to part 2. Fully appropriate and it feels paced properly.

[GraspingVileTerror]

I'm hard of hearing, so I had trouble hearing dialogue from time to time, but I don't think it was the soundtrack interfering with it.

(Personal note, more theatres need to add the reflective captions feature.  I don't understand why it's so rare.)

[Haijinx]

The music was definitely too loud.

 

It wasnt just the volume as the dialog seemed almost too quiet.

 

Maybe they thought it had to be like that for audiences used to 10 explosions per minute.

 

Considering the limitations on time it was an exellent adaption overall. 

 

[Optimum_Man]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

One question before saying anything else - was it the *movie* that had this mixed so that the soundtrack was beating me up, or just my theater seeming to have it cranked up to 11... no, wait, 11 was the quiet part... Just got back and I honestly feel physically beaten up by the sound.

 

 

OK, that question being out there:

1, visually... I don't think I've seen "concept art executed beautifully on screen in the final movie" so well before. Some of those scenes looked like they could have been just painted.

 

2. The baron. I love this version and how he was executed. Especially the floating. It didn't look ridiculous.

 

3. There's *one* line or interaction that's always bugged me for not being in any of the movies so far. Just after that first duel, As Paul's getting accepted, might start thinking "ok, killed someone, not so bad, and good things happened because of it," his mother asks him "How does it feel to be a murderer?" and it kind of knocks him back to earth with "oh, yeah, killed someone." No movie's had that line. This is the first one I haven't really felt like it needed it.  It's a weird thing to get hung up on, yes, and it's 100% me, but still...

 

And yes. Looking forward to part 2. Fully appropriate and it feels paced properly.

I watched it on HBO Max at home so I didn't have that many sound issues, but there were a lot complaints about the audio formatting from other people who saw it in theaters. Typically the music and audio FX were much louder than the dialogue throughout the movie,

[SeraphimKensai]

There's no way a sequel doesn't get green lit. The movie would have to literally tank, and early numbers show the complete opposite of that.

 

It's a great film. I want them to go.full on Peter Jackson style LOTR with this movie and sequels covering the rest of Frank Herbert's Dune Novels.

[Optimum_Man]

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

There's no way a sequel doesn't get green lit. The movie would have to literally tank, and early numbers show the complete opposite of that.

 

It's a great film. I want them to go.full on Peter Jackson style LOTR with this movie and sequels covering the rest of Frank Herbert's Dune Novels.

Honestly it’s making me nervous that the director isn’t sure there is gonna be a sequel. Which makes me think there’s more to the situation than just box office receipts. Maybe this is my natural paranoia but the ground just feels… shaky.

 

Theres also the problem with the casting. The cast is of course stellar, but there’s a larger issue with longevity, will they’ve able to keep Zendaya? She’s a big name and popular, as is Chalamet. And don’t get me started on Jason Mamoa. Do they honestly think he’d come back to play Duncan? Like I really hope it all works out, but man I’m having my doubts.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Think the cast isn't a problem as long as any delay isn't more than a couple of years.

• The key cast would have taken the option for both movies, or it wouldn't have been greenlit. Unless the scheduling's insane, backing out of that kind of paper is what gets you a "difficult" reputation in Whollyodd. Hard to shake and harder to come back from.
• Chalamet will be back as this is his chance to prove he cuts it as a franchise headliner.
• I know every castmember always says they had a blast working on things (unless it's a difficult shoot), but Momoa enjoyed the hell out of this one and he's not got much of a filter.
• Mind you, Momoa seems to enjoy pretty much everything. I saw him charging around at his first London Film & Comic Con being thoroughly confused, surprised and happy at all the strangeness (not least TubaPool). Most of us were confused as to why he needed four bodyguards, unless they were his lunch.

Edited October 25, 2021 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Side note: I'm aware that some people (myself included) are worried about seeing this in cinemas, but it would have been a perfect opportunity to sell souvenir stillsuit masks (maybe with filters too...)

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, Optimum_Man said:

I watched it on HBO Max at home so I didn't have that many sound issues, but there were a lot complaints about the audio formatting from other people who saw it in theaters. Typically the music and audio FX were much louder than the dialogue throughout the movie,

 

Hmm. Yeah, had a friend who saw it streaming and said the same thing - no issues with it there.

 

But dear lord, in theaters...

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Oddly, I don't think the sound mix came up in this pod...

https://audioboom.com/posts/7966742-episode-270-denis-villeneuve-on-the-music-of-dune

[Optimum_Man]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Hmm. Yeah, had a friend who saw it streaming and said the same thing - no issues with it there.

 

But dear lord, in theaters...

My sister and her kids saw it in theaters and they said the sound was off, as did some of my friends who saw it. There’s also a lot of people on Twitter talking about it. My guess is the audio engineer just was careless or something.

 

3 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Most of us were confused as to why he needed four bodyguards, unless they were his lunch.

Ok that made me ugly laugh. 😂 

 

3 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Think the cast isn't a problem as long as any delay isn't more than a couple of years.

• The key cast would have taken the option for both movies, or it wouldn't have been greenlit. Unless the scheduling's insane, backing out of that kind of paper is what gets you a "difficult" reputation in Whollyodd. Hard to shake and harder to come back from.
• Chalamet will be back as this is his chance to prove he cuts it as a franchise headliner.
• I know every castmember always says they had a blast working on things (unless it's a difficult shoot), but Momoa enjoyed the hell out of this one and he's not got much of a filter.

My  paranoia wasn’t really based on any facts, just a general bad feeling of things I saw as ominous signs. Like obviously I hope I’m wrong. But gut feelings, ya know?

[Heraclea]

I enjoyed it, but I suspect this version will have the same problem the other film and TV adaptations had. Great fun if you know the source material, but people who have not read the book will find it very difficult to follow.  Herbert was one of the great worldbuilders of all time - second only to Tolkien IMO - but that means that there are complicated explanations behind almost everything from the Bene Gesserit to the importance of melange itself.  Most of these things got only a line or two, and if you blinked you could miss them. 

[Optimum_Man]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

I enjoyed it, but I suspect this version will have the same problem the other film and TV adaptations had. Great fun if you know the source material, but people who have not read the book will find it very difficult to follow.  Herbert was one of the great worldbuilders of all time - second only to Tolkien IMO - but that means that there are complicated explanations behind almost everything from the Bene Gesserit to the importance of melange itself.  Most of these things got only a line or two, and if you blinked you could miss them. 

I had to spend a lot of time explaining things to my girlfriend for that reason. I remember not understanding a lot of the things Frank mentioned until I read Brian’s prequels.