Quick! While the devs have moved on with their lives, let's update Assault Rifle

[Neogumbercules]

I'll try to keep it short and sweet. Trying to keep the flavor and intent of AR, but making it more... better? The theme of AR is ridding baddies with bullets and/or setting them on fire. Also in some instances I'm asking for KB to KD. I know there's a IO for that but IMO we shouldn't have to dedicate a slot to reduce KB, people that love the KB (not many) can dedicate a  slot to adding it back. Keeping that in mind...

 

Burst - Make this a narrow cone. Everything else stays the same. Concept: spray and pray.

 

Slug - Give this ability a small -res to s/l effect. Concept: the Slug can damage/shatter armored plating.

 

Buckshot - increase the range of this attack so you can hit enemies deeper in the pack, or more spread out enemies. Change KB to KD. Not much conceptual stuff here, I just think the power would be more useful if it could spread more. And it fits the theme.

 

M30 Grenade - KB to KD. Animation option - add an option to give this power the hand grenade animation. Not all gun options make sense with an underbarrel launcher. Change the smashing damage aspect to fire damage. Concept: It is an explosive after all.

 

Beanbag - change to Flashbang. Animation choice, shoot from gun or throw grenade by hand. Change power to a targeted AOE stun and to-hit debuff. Adjust stun mag and duration to be in line with the power type, etc. Concept: this power is in line with a munitions/soldier type and it actually makes the power useful.

 

Sniper Rifle: Add "Headshot" mechanic. Power will crit if the user has > 22% tohit buff. Concept: UT99 rules.

 

Flamethrower - Speed up the cast time and the power deals 75% of it's damage as an upfront burst, the rest as Dot. No concept here, just a buff to usability.

 

Ignite - Change to Incendiary Grenade. Animation choice, shoot from gun or toss grenade animation. Increase range. Effect: Exactly the same.

 

Full Auto - Increase target cap to 16 and add a high stun effect whose duration is equal to the animation time of the attack. This will keep you a little safer during its notoriously long animation time. Concept: Think Arnold mowing down trees in Predator. The stun effect simulates the reaction of being Full Auto'd "OMG I'm being Full Auto'd!" no time to shoot back till the hail of bullets is over. Other tier 9 nukes have secondary effects so its not unprecedented.

 

That's all I got.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

So overall I think most of the early powers are fine as is. They're on a par with the equivalent powers in other sets so they don't really need changing. I'm not going into detail on the KB vs KD debate since that will overwhelm the thread, I'll just note that I like knockback and that there are IOs to change it to knockdown if you don't.

 

In regards to some of your specific suggestions for later powers:

 

Beanbag: This seems a bit to good. The problem is that there's no precedent for an AoE Mez in a blaster primary and since Dark Pit was specifically removed form Dark Blast when it got ported I don't think adding one is a great idea. Blast set stuns/holds are intended to remove meddlesome Lts, they aren't intended to stun groups. The idea of adding a to hit debuff as a secondary effect could be useful to help with bosses.

 

Sniper Rifle: This change seems overpowered. Overall I think I'd like to see where the sniper changes ont he beta server end up before discussing more changes to sniper rifle.

 

Flamethrower: I like the idea but I think 75% is a bit good. Maybe have the upfront in the 25%-50% range?

 

Ignite: This is the one that I think has the most potential for a change. The key problem is that it's technically very powerful but a major headache to use. The DPA is actually VERY good, the problem is that the long cast time and need to immobilize an enemy make it a pain to use. My suggestion back in the day was to just rebalance it to be closer to a T3 blast. So make it a standard targeted attack that applies a 2.12 damage scale attack as a DoT (over 5-7 seconds) to a single target and also drops a burn patch that is weaker than the current version. So the idea is you can set a boss on fire for damage roughly equivalent to a T3 blast (but as a DoT rather than a single attack) but also get a weaker burn patch if you want to immobilize them for more damage. So the upside is you get some more single target damage but since it's a DoT it's still weaker than the single target attacks in most sets (as it should be, AR is an AoE focused set).

 

Full Auto: I agree with the target cap change (in fact Flamethrower should probably get it as well). I think the stun effect would be OP though, Full Auto is already very good. If i were going to add a secondary effect I'd probably go for either a chance to knockdown or a to hit debuff since either would represent enemies being suppressed without being overpowered.

[Vanden]

Full Auto: I agree with the target cap change (in fact Flamethrower should probably get it as well). I think the stun effect would be OP though, Full Auto is already very good. If i were going to add a secondary effect I'd probably go for either a chance to knockdown or a to hit debuff since either would represent enemies being suppressed without being overpowered.

This is my thinking as well. It also would look weird for the enemies to become drunk because they're being shot, plus I'm not sure it'd be possible to make the stun effect last exactly the duration of the power, because of how power effects scale based on the relative levels of players and critters. Maybe it could be a knockdown-over-time effect, that knocks enemies over multiple times over its duration?

[jack_nomind]

I really like the idea of adding active mitigation to AR attacks -- more knockdown and/or -%DMG seem the most practical.  AR's DPAs are actually very good, it just often roots you forever and that gets blasters killed.  Having a -DMG% component does indeed feel very Rambo.  I'm leery of other mezzes and -tohit because I suspect the numbers needed to make them effective in a wide enough range of cases would make them significantly too strong in a handful.

 

I'm a little iffier on the target cap changes.  If it was any AT other than Blaster, I'd /jranger in an instant.  I'd love to see that on the test server for a while to try out, at least.

 

Conceptually, I love the idea of blaster crits which run on some kind of triangular number system (eg, +5 tohit = 1% crit chance, +12 = 2%, +17 = 3%, +29 = 4%, etc).  It's a nice build concept incentive.  Practically, though, I don't think that lack of damage is the main problem Blasters face. 

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I'm a little iffier on the target cap changes.  If it was any AT other than Blaster, I'd /jranger in an instant.  I'd love to see that on the test server for a while to try out, at least.

Here's my view on target caps.

 

Right now target caps are pretty uniform: targeted AoEs and large radius PBAOEs get 16, ranged cones and melee PBAoEs get 10, melee cones get 5 and very narrow cones get 3 (whether ranged or melee).

 

Now for the most part I think this is fine, the maximum cap fits relatively well with the number of targets you can realistically expect to fit in them anyway so it discourages herding without significantly impacting normal play. However there are a few places where I feel a power really ought to be upgraded to the next tier and Full Auto is one of those places. If you look at the geometry you can almost fit a standard 15ft radius circular AoE inside the wide point of the cone and the total cone area is quite a bit larger than that area. So I think Full Auto is a special case where giving it the same target cap as a targeted AoE is not unwarranted.

[Neogumbercules]

Thanks for the feedback guys. If you couldn't tell, I wrote this in a hurry this morning when I got into work. I know some of the things I suggested might be OP but it's cool to see that I'm not alone in wanting some buffs to AR.

[Neogumbercules]

Having played AR for the first time in 7 years on Justin this morning I was suddenly reminded of two things. First, the AOE size of Ignite needs a huge increase. It may as well be a single target attack its so small, and secondly, the cone on flamethrower really is way too narrow.

[Errants]

To start off with, I'm going to advocate to make "Range" one of the Secondary Characteristics of Assault Rifle. TLDR, normalize their ST/TAoE's to 100', and Cones to 50'. This is a ~10-25% buff to the range on all but Slug.

 

Burst - Make this a narrow cone. Everything else stays the same. Concept: spray and pray.

 

I'd rather get -Res here, and increase range from 90' to 100', keep it on par with Slug. If turning it into an AoE, 5 degree arc, max 5 targets, and we'd need to move it to a higher tier.

 

Slug - Give this ability a small -res to s/l effect. Concept: the Slug can damage/shatter armored plating.

 

Slug is actually fairly solid. 20' greater range than all other blasts, and a KD effect. I'd leave it as is, especially since I'm asking for a bunch on the rest of the stuff.

 

Buckshot - increase the range of this attack so you can hit enemies deeper in the pack, or more spread out enemies. Change KB to KD. Not much conceptual stuff here, I just think the power would be more useful if it could spread more. And it fits the theme.

 

There's enough that want the KD, either mechanically or concept-wise, and its directional KB, so skill increases the utility of the power. I would increase the range to 50', bringing it on par with Archery/Beam Rifle/Sonic.

 

M30 Grenade - KB to KD. Animation option - add an option to give this power the hand grenade animation. Not all gun options make sense with an underbarrel launcher. Change the smashing damage aspect to fire damage. Concept: It is an explosive after all.

 

Yes, kinda, and kinda. M30's KB can be bad, and is counter-intuitiveis bad. Unlike Buckshot, which directs the mobs with skillful play, radial KB just scatters them, and little to no ability to direct targets (Hover is a thing, but a power pool/pool pick to "buff" one power is not a good balancing parameter). Alternately, could give it a different secondary effect, details on the 3rd point. As the KB "wave" comes from the caster of the power, the KB in M30 can be seen to change/be random in direction, based on toon movement or placement in/out of melee. Coupled with the delay due to projectile flight-time, it can be confusing to attempt to utilize properly. To keep more intuitive, I'd change the secondary from KB to a bleed DoT.

And while I agree on an option for alternate animation... I'd instead argue for a barrel launched grenade to jibe with those without under-barrel launchers... However, that would be additional animation requirements and not using baked in assets, AND would require matching to the various lengths of the different rifle options. 80' range with hand-tossed is viable, though, only ~27m.

Change the damage, but make it 100% lethal. Additionally, maybe change the secondary effect from KB to a bleed DoT, or a slow (damage to the legs). While it is an explosive, IRL, most of the damage comes from the fragmentation. If we really want/need fire, have fire damage portion be only on the primary target.

 

Beanbag - change to Flashbang. Animation choice, shoot from gun or throw grenade by hand. Change power to a targeted AOE stun and to-hit debuff. Adjust stun mag and duration to be in line with the power type, etc. Concept: this power is in line with a munitions/soldier type and it actually makes the power useful.

 

I'd rather steal the Sentinel's version, with an 80' (base blast range) or 100' (even with Slug, and what I'd like for Burst). Keep it single-target, and it makes a viable candidate to swap with Burst on tiers, and make Burst an AoE. I would NOT have an alternate animation for this version.

Alternatively, if making it a Flashbang, give it the Blind treatment... ST Stun, AoE ToHit Debuff (Sleep would be a little too strong, I think). This version could use a hand-tossed version as an alternate animation.

 

Sniper Rifle: Add "Headshot" mechanic. Power will crit if the user has > 22% tohit buff. Concept: UT99 rules.

 

Snipes are being looked at, so I'd lean away from changes to Sniper Rifle at this time. But, a 30' (20%) buff to the range (180' total), to keep with AR having longer ranges on all. However, unsure what the reasonable draw distances are. I remember with Boost Range on my AR/Nrg on Live, I could use ally targetting to shoot mobs at 240', out of draw. This would allow for engagement ranges of 288' with Boost Range.

 

Flamethrower - Speed up the cast time and the power deals 75% of it's damage as an upfront burst, the rest as Dot. No concept here, just a buff to usability.

 

~2.5 seconds is on par with Rad and one of Sonics; and better than Fire/Ice/Water's and 1 of Sonic's cones. Not a huge need to adjust this, IMO, as it's the 2nd most damaging cone out there.

Front loading the damage would be nice, but I'd say 25-50%, not 75%.

Again, let's increase that range out to 50'.

Also, if we want alternate animations, this would be a great one for a "Dragon's Breath" shotgun shell. Just a cone blast of fire, with loading and/or aiming animation at the front to keep the timing the same as the spray of the default.

 

Ignite - Change to Incendiary Grenade. Animation choice, shoot from gun or toss grenade animation. Increase range. Effect: Exactly the same.

 

/signed on the animation choices and name change. Increase range to 100', reflecting the placed TAoE status, and bring in line with M30.

SHORTEN THE BLOODY ANIMATION - at ~4.2 seconds, it is longer than all nukes not Full Auto, and as long or longer than several snipes.

Remove the fear component, add in a slow. This helps any secondary powerset without immobilizes, as the full damage may happen more often.

 

Full Auto - Increase target cap to 16 and add a high stun effect whose duration is equal to the animation time of the attack. This will keep you a little safer during its notoriously long animation time. Concept: Think Arnold mowing down trees in Predator. The stun effect simulates the reaction of being Full Auto'd "OMG I'm being Full Auto'd!" no time to shoot back till the hail of bullets is over. Other tier 9 nukes have secondary effects so its not unprecedented.

 

Please on increased cap, especially if we can get the range increased to 100'. Longer cones mean larger area... let the AR benefit from that fact.

No stun, but stealing a good idea from a different powerset - Hail of Bullets. Add in the unenhanceable +Def over the duration of the power, or even extend it for a second or so after it.

And the animation, while long, fits very well thematically. Adding in the Defense buff a la Hail of Bullets from DP (9.25% Def M/R/A, or could do 13.875% R/A only to reflect the cone aspect) should be a decent amount of mitigation to help pay for the animation time. And it fits the idea of the mobs diving for cover because there's a hail of lead heading their way.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

M30 Grenade - KB to KD. Animation option - add an option to give this power the hand grenade animation. Not all gun options make sense with an underbarrel launcher. Change the smashing damage aspect to fire damage. Concept: It is an explosive after all.

 

Yes, kinda, and kinda. Radial KB is bad. Unlike Buckshot, which directs the mobs with skillful play, radial KB just scatters them, and little to no ability to direct targets (Hover is a thing, but a power pool/pool pick to "buff" one power is not a good balancing parameter). Alternately, could give it a different secondary effect, details on the 3rd point.

Just a correction here, M30 grenade doesn't do radial KB. KB is always done from the direction of the entity using the ability rather than the target point of the ability. So M30 only does radial KB if you're standing in the middle of a group of enemies. If you use it from range then it's directional KB, same as buckshot.

[Errants]

M30 Grenade - KB to KD. Animation option - add an option to give this power the hand grenade animation. Not all gun options make sense with an underbarrel launcher. Change the smashing damage aspect to fire damage. Concept: It is an explosive after all.

 

Yes, kinda, and kinda. Radial KB is bad. Unlike Buckshot, which directs the mobs with skillful play, radial KB just scatters them, and little to no ability to direct targets (Hover is a thing, but a power pool/pool pick to "buff" one power is not a good balancing parameter). Alternately, could give it a different secondary effect, details on the 3rd point.

Just a correction here, M30 grenade doesn't do radial KB. KB is always done from the direction of the entity using the ability rather than the target point of the ability. So M30 only does radial KB if you're standing in the middle of a group of enemies. If you use it from range then it's directional KB, same as buckshot.

 

TIL - Been 6+ years since I've used M30, and most of the rest of my toons are melee... Thank you!

 

Edited my post, appreciate the clarity. 15 years, and I never knew that about KB.

[Galaxy Brain]

These changes should apply to MM merc powers too ;)

[srmalloy]

Full Auto - Increase target cap to 16 and add a high stun effect whose duration is equal to the animation time of the attack. This will keep you a little safer during its notoriously long animation time. Concept: Think Arnold mowing down trees in Predator. The stun effect simulates the reaction of being Full Auto'd "OMG I'm being Full Auto'd!" no time to shoot back till the hail of bullets is over. Other tier 9 nukes have secondary effects so its not unprecedented.

 

I think Hold is more appropriate than Stun, given the long-standing issue of hitting a mob with a stun after they've queued up movement and having the visibly stunned mob skate fifty yards away, leap onto the roof of a building, and disappear from sight. There is already an animation -- I think it's used for Taser Dart and the other electric-based holds -- that has the victim standing there shaking from the effect of the shock that would work as a visual effect of being hit by a hail of bullets. I'm not sure, but I think that there are some powers that apply an animation to the target only for the duration of the power's cast animation, which would give some precedent (and an existing example in the code) for doing this. I'm not sure, though, if applying a status effect on your targets, even if it turns off at the end of the power's animation wouldn't bump its effectiveness up enough to require adjusting other aspects of the power.

 

Just as an anecdotal reference, though, pre-shutdown, my AR/EM Blaster would set up on a spawn of white or below Nemesis minions in PI, and with Boost Range up, pop Build Up or Aim (both, if there were more than two lieutenants in the spawn), then open up with Full Auto, expecting to take out the entire spawn... and usually winding up at no lower than 25% HP from the return fire. Then rest to recover HP and zip off to do the same thing to another spawn as soon as Full Auto recharged (compared to the 'crash' nukes of other sets). Having FA incapacitate my targets while I was shooting feels a bit like cheating, even though the removal of crashes from the other tier-9 nukes lets the other sets do much the same thing, and being 'boom' effects don't expose the character to return fire for an extended animation as FA does.