Challenging relentless Aeon full Vanguard fight made more difficult recently?

[fitzsimmons]

TLDR version; first time we ran the full vanguard fight, we walked through it.  Not a care in the world.  The experience last night and today was much much different.

 

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3 attempts summarized below

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Completed this twice but the first time was so much easier.  First time we did it we had a tank and 7 corrs, stacked buffs, heals, etc.  The make up may have been:

 

• tank
• /dark corr
• 2 /natty corr
• 2 /ice corrs
• /poison corr
• /kin corr

 

I think that was the makeup.  We completed a full Aeon relentless run in 1.5 hours and we walked through the vanguard fight with Incan first, LG, Dark watcher then the others.  It was like butter.  It was our first time seeing this fight and attempting it.

 

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Now come to today when we tried it again and we had a pretty stacked team:

 

• ill/kin
• 2 cold corrs
• 1 bubbler def
• 1 poison corr
• 1 natty
• 1 emp

 

And one other, I don't recall.

 

We got stomped during the Vanguard fight and Gaussian seemed to have called in a lot of vanguard as well.  Not something we recall seeing from our initial run some time ago.

 

We weren't able to take them all down within the full time allotted.  We survived with some deaths here or there but trying to figure out the order, and making adjustments later kinda screwed us here.

 

--

 

Now our most recent attempt at the Vanguard fight, we had:

 

• tank
• fire/atomic blaster
• emp corr
• mind dom (we wanted to see if we could sleep 'em, we couldn't)
• natty corr
• 2 cold corr
• poison corr

 

1 person took Clarion, 6 of us took Barrier and the tank took Incandescence.  We had some deaths here or there but we called out barrier and cast it every 30 seconds.  This worked pretty well even though we took a defeat or two in the Vanguard fight, we had unlocked the hospital and re-gathered now and again outside the room if we lost too many.

 

We had around 20 minutes on the clock and we took down Hero One with under 2 minutes left.

 

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Did anything change with this fight just after release or did we just get lucky the first time we ran it?

 

Thanks,
Dave

Edited December 19, 2021 by fitzsimmons

[Cobalt Arachne]

Nothing has changed with the fight that I'm aware of, the dev team is on break for December.

 

Due to some streams being crossed by mistake, Dark Watcher does unintentionally have two of Hero 1's resistance powers right now, meaning he takes a little longer to kill than designed.

 

That will be fixed in January, so the fight will become slightly easier, but Gaussian has always summoned Vanguard Sword reinforcements once he becomes active, and continues to do so periodically even if not engaged with players.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

Gaussian has always summoned Vanguard Sword reinforcements once he becomes active, and continues to do so periodically even if not engaged with players.

 

Whoa, slow down, chief.  It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early for Gaussian to be thinking about engagement.  We barely know each other.  We haven't even had a proper date yet, and even though we exchanged numbers, all he ever talks about is his work.  Now, I'm sure he's nice, but, honestly, there needs to be some foundation before we build a house together.

[Mezmera]

If you let Gaussian get going with summoning boss Vanguard pet after pet without clearing any of them they start to make a big difference.  Some of those bosses heal people.  Which is where it's good to have one monumentally good control teammate to turn those pets to your side or hold them off if you're not killing them quick enough.  Dark Watcher is a pain as well in this fight with those illusion pets.  

 

Sometimes how the fight is going and team composition dictates the target sequence after Incandescence goes down.  Generally after Incan I like to get Lady Grey and Dark Watcher put to bed that way all of the debuffs we have stacked on the rest of the team seems to pay out.  

 

I like Corrs and Defenders for this because of the values they bring along with scourge but I do like a few great blasters who can rev the engine until scourge kicks in for the others. 

 

My Mind dom for Aeon overall is great but yeah you can't sleep them and when I use her in this fight I'm usually the only control so I focus on doing that and spam my aoe controls especially on Gaussian's pets.  Dom's are mini blasters with good ST damage but you have to risk melee on some to get the full worth out of what they can bring, it's the only time I will bob and weave in and out of melee with my dom, that Excalibur hurts!

 

It doesn't look like you had too divergent of a team makeup between the different times so like @Cobalt Arachne is alluding to it could come down to bad luck and letting Gaussian get out of hand.  The fight is hard and I'm glad for this challenge, neat side addition.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by Mezmera

[fitzsimmons]

Thanks for the reply Mez, I didn't know about the pets healing.  I think our first stacked attempt at the Vanguard fight was within the first week Aeon was out.  I know you ran one that had a less than ideal team, 2 tanks, a scrap, probably you on Dom and you were able to complete it with little time left on the clock.

 

Next time we attempt it, we'll be sure to wipe out the healers.

 

I saw a run on YouTube where they didn't necessarily have a stacked team and they even brought a troller and a peace bringer and finished the fight in 8 minutes.  That, from what I recall was our experience on our first stacked team attempt.

 

Anyway, thanks for the replies folks and I too, love the challenge, I just wanted to make sure nothing was off here.  Knowledge=power.

Edited December 20, 2021 by fitzsimmons

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, fitzsimmons said:

Thanks for the reply Mez, I didn't know about the pets healing.  I think our first stacked attempt at the Vanguard fight was within the first week Aeon was out.  I know you ran one that had a less than ideal team, 2 tanks, a scrap, probably you on Dom and you were able to complete it with little time left on the clock.

 

Next time we attempt it, we'll be sure to wipe out the healers.

 

I saw a run on YouTube where they didn't necessarily have a stacked team and they even brought a troller and a peace bringer and finished the fight in 8 minutes.  That, from what I recall was our experience on our first stacked team attempt.

 

Anyway, thanks for the replies folks and I too, love the challenge, I just wanted to make sure nothing was off here.  Knowledge=power.

 

Yeah it was the first run on the server for that fight which no one on my team knew about that I had to convince them there was let alone most had not even run a relentless run, so I was letting people play their best character they were most comfortable with as long as we could get t4 Barriers and some good debuffing.  

 

I was on my tank, we didn't have my dom since my tank was the one with the Mo Aeon badge at the time.  I'd have loved to use my dom on that run it was a pain listening to one of my friends ask 'are we there yet', which he was the scrapper always ruining the badge runs for my dom.   Thankfully they changed that ripple no death badge.  

 

The dom with all the aggro control makes the whole sf go much faster and smoother, just not most optimal for this particular fight, not terrible but I just have to stick to my role here, where a controller brings buff/debuff.  

 

There's lots of viable combinations.  I don't doubt a PB can hang in there.  The devs did a smashing job to make it feel like whatever your favorite character is as long as it's well built and well played can be a very viable option.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by Mezmera

[fitzsimmons]

Yes you and the scrapper have a love hate relationship with one another.  Or a hate hate but I am aware.

[Mezmera]

10 minutes ago, fitzsimmons said:

Yes you and the scrapper have a love hate relationship with one another.  Or a hate hate but I am aware.

 

Haha yeah we go way back to the first days of HC.  Odd couple playing off of each other for sure.  This fight is the only time I wasn't tickled to see his scrapper die knowing we needed all hands on deck.    

[Snarky]

I been eating this same boulder soup for weeks now.  I swear this batch has lost it's flavor a bit.  Did they change cooks?

[Ukase]

7 hours ago, fitzsimmons said:

I know you ran one that had a less than ideal team, 2 tanks, a scrap, probably you on Dom and you were able to complete it with little time left on the clock.

Although I'd never want to date Mez's avatar, I can't think of anyone who I'd rather have on my team play a mind dom. I saw what his character could do in TPN, and went out and made one for myself. 
And deleted it after realizing that there are things Mez can do that I cannot. 

I say that to say this: 
Good team composition is great to have, but I'll take good players with less than optimal team composition over average players with great team composition. Every time. When you're only slightly better than mediocre like myself, ya need all the help you can get. 

[fitzsimmons]

Huh, Must've been a mistake post from my phone.  Not sure how to delete though.

 

Again, appreciate the replies, thanks!

Edited December 20, 2021 by fitzsimmons

[nihilii]

Side question - how do you get that fight? Is it just a matter of talking to Psy-guy like usual, but on Relentless, or is there more to it (is it possible to get that fight under Relentless)?

[Albion]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Side question - how do you get that fight? Is it just a matter of talking to Psy-guy like usual, but on Relentless, or is there more to it (is it possible to get that fight under Relentless)?

Be on Relentless, team lead needs to have the Master of badge for ASF, make a deal with Psicurse, don't skip vanguard ripple, once inside Vanguard base, piss off Lady Grey through dialog, then, instead of Hero 1 and Incan you gonna get the whole team.

[fitzsimmons]

2 hours ago, Albion said:

Be on Relentless, team lead needs to have the Master of badge for ASF, make a deal with Psicurse, don't skip vanguard ripple, once inside Vanguard base, piss off Lady Grey through dialog, then, instead of Hero 1 and Incan you gonna get the whole team.

 

LG isn't in her traditional spot, she's in the room outside of where you enter the Vanguard base and when the leader talks to her, assuming he has the MO, you'll see a dialog option that says MASTER or something like that.  I've never been the one to talk to her however but that is what I've heard.

 

Then instead of fighting just Incandescence and Hero One, you fight the rest of 'em as well.  Borea, Levantara, Gaussian, Serpent Drummer, Dark Water, Lady Grey and whoever else I may be missing.

 

To get the accolade (not a tracked badge) and the practice dummy, you need to complete that Vanguard fight within the allotted time.  You don't need to complete the rest of the strike force however.

[Mezmera]

5 hours ago, Albion said:

piss off Lady Grey through dialog

 

Just be careful what you say.  Without that badge if you go insinuating her clothes look a lot smaller on her nowadays she'll rip your soul out right then and there and send your team back through the ripple.  Yes choose your wording carefully, when leader has that badge they will pick the bottom text, don't overdo it.  

 

Also to get the dummy you'll need to save Hero 1 for last (which would probably naturally happen anyways) and take out Incandescence first she wrecks.  

Edited December 21, 2021 by Mezmera