Illusion/Traps questions

[Qabal]

I'm currently level 22 on my Illusion/Traps build, and I had some questions:

 

1.  Poison Gas Trap.  Nearly every build I look at recommends loading it with procs, but, at my current level, it's been inconsistent and underwhelming.  I have 3 procs slotted (Will of the Controller, Neuronic Shutdown, and Ghost Widow), and I've never seen more than 2 procs hit a target, and even that is rare.  Half the time, no targets take any proc damage.  Am I doing something wrong?

 

2.  How important is capping defense on this build?  I'm trying to fit Fold Space and a patron pool into my build, and I can't do that without dropping the fighting pool.  I can still get near 40% defense to everything (with the 'Attacked' box unchecked and manually adding the defense from the Force Field Generator), but I can't hit the cap without Weave.

 

3.  I had three questions, but I can't remember the third...

 

Thanks in advance.

[Doomguide2005]

2).  If you got to 40 without sacrificing long term build goals (such as perma-PA or close to perma) you've got plenty.  If for some reason you absolutely felt you needed that last 5% for a particular piece of content there's Defense Amplifiers or in the endgame Barrier.  PA should be taking the majority of the aggro followed by your Trap pets.  Things should mostly be ignoring you while you move about laying traps.

     But that said at level 22 you don't yet have perma PA or perma Hasten and 40 defense should serve you well until you get there.

[Hedgefund]

1. Poison Trap is an aoe so it gets adjusted by the aoe factors, in addition to the usual parameters for slotted recharge + activation.  It's certainly far from the proc nuke it used to be but I view it as a chance for some extra damage.  It's almost last on my slotting priorities once other goals are met.  I definitely would want the WotC proc, a unique, to be in a power that gets more use.  

 

2. I didn't soft-cap, I went for "good" ranged def (30ish)  The toolset from both primary and secondary are just too deep to keep aggro from being a problem.

 

3. 42

Edited January 3, 2022 by Hedgefund

[Qabal]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

<snip>

Thank you.

 

1 hour ago, Hedgefund said:

3. 42

That's it!  Thank you!

[Doomguide2005]

     The other detail I should have clarified (mentioned) is you should be moving about the battle with Superior Invisibility toggled on.  Made an assumption that this was the case.  Attacking does not suppress your stealth from SI (you do lose half the +defense it provides).  SI also carries a -100% threat (which reduces your threat value and aggro).  That combined with the Taunt in PA, plus your various Traps (who are pets with their own threat/aggro lists) is why mechanically you should be basically ignored especially while PA is active.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Doomguide2005
Typos, always with typos

[Area Man]

Just to put my experience in perspective, I'm the person who wrote the Illusion/Radiation Guide on the old live forums, the Local Man guide.  At the time of shutdown, it was the most viewed Controller Guide in the Forums.  I have not played an Ill/Traps specifically, but I've played about 8 or 9 different Illusion controllers, and played a Grav/Traps.

I agree with Doomguide2009 above that with the right playstyle, you don't need to worry about Defense on an Illusion Controller.  Superior Invis, staying at range most of the time, moving around, casting PA and Phanty to grab aggro work pretty well most of the time.  Personally, I prefer my Controllers to control and not be tanks.  I don't take the fighting pool on any of them, as I don't want to have to give up control powers to get three power choices to get a little Defense.  Yes, I occasionally faceplant, but that's what rez powers are for.  I find active control powers to be more fun than defense toggles with only a small benefit.

The top goal for any illusion controller should be Recharge, aiming to get Perma PA if you can.

I would suggest that at level 22, those slots you put in Poison Gas Trap can be better used other places.

[Doomguide2005]

The only thing I'd add to Area Man's thoughts is at level 22 even with maximum effort and limitless budget you won't have perma-PA so some defense might help until you can respec into a late game build.  And Traps at least the way I tend to play it is very up close, underfoot if you will.  You should still be essentially aggro free for the most part but you can get hit and damaged by AoE's aimed at your pets.  Those might be Fireballs or PBAoEs tagged as AoEs.  Good news is again is SI will not suppress you'll still be invisible and they shouldn't switch off targets to go after you.

[Qabal]

I hit level 35 last night and grabbed Trip Mine.  My concept for the build was to have my PA  and pets taking all the agro while I toe bombed everyone with Trip Mine.  Trip Mine, however, doesn't feel great.  I was mostly prepared for the long cast time, but it's interruptible nature makes it more aggravating than fun.  I haven't taken Fold Space yet, so that plus Trip Mine still sounds like a fun combo even if it's a bit gimmicky.

 

I haven't given up on my build yet, but I may need to re-think my main concept behind it.

 

[roleki]

Fold Space didn't exist when I rolled my Ill/Traps, but if it did I probably would have tried the same thing.  Onliest thing is, you have to make sure the killzone has enough Trip Mines to handle all the incoming, but spaced out enough that one target doesn't eat up several Trip Mines.  As it stands, I used to set up little ambushes around corners then draw bad dudes to them, but it never seemed to kill everything neatly.  Combine that spillover with the time it takes to set up all those Trip Mines/Gas Traps, and ultimately I just didn't have patience for it.

 

That said, don't give up on that Ill/Traps just yet!  When they're humming along, they are capable of remarkable forms of violence!  The onliest thing is, you have to configure them in such a way that they can execute.  Like everyone has suggested, Recharge (specifically Global Recharge) is priority #1 on an Illusion controller.  Once you have that nailed down, survival is just a question of stealth, misdirection, and timely application of debuffs and soft controls.

 

On my Ill/Traps, I keep Superior Invisibility on at all times; when I deploy FFG, I hit Group Invisibility to keep that off everything's radar.  I don't fire up Phantasm unless I'm on an EB or above; that moron starts firing from 70' away and basically announces you're nearby; pretty much the same deal with Seeker Drones.  I deploy PA like an alpha attack, with a macro that fires them right at the feet of villainy; once the mob notices them, I Jaunt in behind and lay a Trip Mine.  Anything that survived THAT gets a good look at Spectral Terror, and by that time Trip Mine is up again and I can (usually) safely let loose another; if not, then they get Poison Gas and/or Caltrops.   

 

One  last thing: you've probably already read this ad nauseum, but just for the record... don't bother taking Time Bomb.  I mean, you can take it on the Test server to see firsthand how slow and useless it is, but in the grand scheme of things, it takes longer to deploy (and detonate) than most encounters would last if you were hitting mobs exclusively with Brawl and strong language.  It's the worst T9 in the history of T9s.   Its best feature is that if you don't take it, you can fit something else in your build.  I'd be mad if it was just an inherent power; that you have to actively choose it and slot it is almost insulting.

 

Anyway, keep at it!  Unless you actually were looking forward to Time Bomb.  

 

ETA:  quick video of Ill/Traps doing its thing; it looked a lot better when I was doing it 😞

Edited January 8, 2022 by roleki

[Qabal]

On 1/7/2022 at 1:54 PM, roleki said:

Fold Space didn't exist when I rolled my Ill/Traps, but if it did I probably would have tried the same thing.  Onliest thing is, you have to make sure the killzone has enough Trip Mines to handle all the incoming, but spaced out enough that one target doesn't eat up several Trip Mines.  As it stands, I used to set up little ambushes around corners then draw bad dudes to them, but it never seemed to kill everything neatly.  Combine that spillover with the time it takes to set up all those Trip Mines/Gas Traps, and ultimately I just didn't have patience for it.

 

That said, don't give up on that Ill/Traps just yet!  When they're humming along, they are capable of remarkable forms of violence!  The onliest thing is, you have to configure them in such a way that they can execute.  Like everyone has suggested, Recharge (specifically Global Recharge) is priority #1 on an Illusion controller.  Once you have that nailed down, survival is just a question of stealth, misdirection, and timely application of debuffs and soft controls.

 

On my Ill/Traps, I keep Superior Invisibility on at all times; when I deploy FFG, I hit Group Invisibility to keep that off everything's radar.  I don't fire up Phantasm unless I'm on an EB or above; that moron starts firing from 70' away and basically announces you're nearby; pretty much the same deal with Seeker Drones.  I deploy PA like an alpha attack, with a macro that fires them right at the feet of villainy; once the mob notices them, I Jaunt in behind and lay a Trip Mine.  Anything that survived THAT gets a good look at Spectral Terror, and by that time Trip Mine is up again and I can (usually) safely let loose another; if not, then they get Poison Gas and/or Caltrops.   

 

One  last thing: you've probably already read this ad nauseum, but just for the record... don't bother taking Time Bomb.  I mean, you can take it on the Test server to see firsthand how slow and useless it is, but in the grand scheme of things, it takes longer to deploy (and detonate) than most encounters would last if you were hitting mobs exclusively with Brawl and strong language.  It's the worst T9 in the history of T9s.   Its best feature is that if you don't take it, you can fit something else in your build.  I'd be mad if it was just an inherent power; that you have to actively choose it and slot it is almost insulting.

 

Anyway, keep at it!  Unless you actually were looking forward to Time Bomb.  

 

ETA:  quick video of Ill/Traps doing its thing; it looked a lot better when I was doing it 😞

Don't worry, I already knew Time Bomb was poop.  Do you slot Poison Gas with procs?  I'm level 38 now.  I'm about to respec to try out Fold Space with Trip Mine.  It's either going to be amazingly fun or amazingly tedious.  I'll let you know.

 

edit:  AND it's the latter.  It also gets me killed by whatever doesn't blow up.  I mean, I've only tried it with a dozen mines or so, and I could stack more, but I don't want to.  Time to rethink my build.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Qabal

[Loquis]

What do people think about putting procs on Enflame from sorcery?

My thought is to cast Phantasm and then drop Enflame on him.

[Riverdusk]

Can't say I've ever tried it, but in my experience phantasm tends to be quite squishy, unless you have a secondary that is really powerful defensively (like /dark).  I wouldn't say FFG would cut it so I'd expect him to die when he goes into melee with enflame on.  For a lot of secondaries I treat him more as a short term pet and recast him about as often as I do phantom army.

 

Just an assumption though, maybe someone else has actually tried it.  Or if you do try, let us know how it works out. 😀

[Psyonico]

Phantasm doesn't really go into melee very much.  I think you'd be better off casting Enflame on an enemy LT/Boss.

 

No idea how it procs, however.

[Doomguide2005]

     And Time Temporal Bomb got a substantial buff but I do need to respec and give it a longer look. 

     I'd agree Phantasm seems to stay at range casting Decoy Phantasm in proximity to target (and it's the Decoy that has Taunt built in).  He can be good choice to have out if timing of the recast of Phantom Army is tight.  They'll be more likely to aggro on Decoy if there's any lapse rather than the Controller.

     Did not try procs in PT though they were quite effective on Live.

[Uun]

While Poison Trap's debuffs are autohit (the initial hold is not), procs require a tohit check even in autohit powers. As a result, you need accuracy slotted if you want the procs to hit. My preferred slotting is 5x Unbreakable Constraint or Gladiator's Net (including the proc) plus an additional proc in the 6th slot. This maxes out the recharge and hold duration, provides some good set bonuses, and allows me to use PT more frequently. 

[TheSpiritFox]

Poison gas trap for me is a place to 5 slot gravitational anchor for the 10% recharge bonus. 

The hold duration enhancement is nice, but traps characters power recharge, and illusion characters power recharge. Slot it up as a hold power including with accuracy and it is a very  reliable aoe hold to open with.  With illusion/traps your first attack on a group is generally either summon PA into it, or if PA is already summoned, seekers. After that your next natural move is poison trap. You wanna power enough recharge that poison trap and acid mortar are up every group. Its not hard to get both down to 25 seconds.