Let us keep toggles when form changing

[Rudra]

Can't the walk mechanic be applied in some way? The toggle suppression instead of de-activation of kheldian powers makes way more sense than the current system.

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

Not like it would come anywhere near being overpowered...

 

They could get it all and STILL not be OP. Human toggles and clicks accessible to the forms? Great... now they're on par with Sentinels. Oh, the horror.

[Doomrider]

FWIW, I don't think toggles persisting through forms would be OP given the current state of the game and while I have my own ideas of where Khelds need improving, I wanna chime in on toggle suppression and present an alternate idea to achieving the same thing.

IF toggle suppression is the goal, but the execution is an issue either due to the amount of work required to implement or some other technical hurdle, what about borrowing from Bio's adaptation to emulate suppression?

For example; When Dark Nova is toggled on, allow Gravity Shield (while toggled on) to apply a -22.5% s/l res to self, negating the base resistance value of Gravity shield, and likewise have Gravity Shield also grant Nova an additional 15% recovery (.25 end/sec) to offset the base endurance cost of Gravity Shield and allow the toggle to persist through the forms.

Bio's adaptations show that sort of functionality already exists within the game. The ability to let certain toggle powers alter or grant supplemental effects to other toggles powers.
Offensive Adaptation does something similar applying a -7.5% res to self while it's active. I don't see adding a recovery buff as well being an issue.

Let Nova form (and likewise Dwarf) act like the individual Adaptations do to alter the buffs granted by the other toggles from Kheld secondaries and let those toggles persist while suppressing the end cost, and the effects (if so desired).

It's may be not a perfect solution, but I think it's an idea worth exploring.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Doomrider

[aethereal]

If we wanted to really hack the shit out of things, we could do this:

The toggles have minimal, but non-zero, endurance cost.  Combat-Jumping-level.

 

They also have an unenhanceable negative endmod effect on self.  Since this is an effect, not a cost, it would be suppressed while powers are suppressed.  Set this at 50% of the current cost of the power.

 

Since the toggles would still have an endurance cost, if you got drained to zero, they would still detoggle.  The cost would still apply while they were form-shifted, but it's small enough that it doesn't matter.

 

They would basically get a modest endurance reduction from current levels "for free" in human form, and then a very small endurance penalty while in dwarf/nova forms.  All in all, a buff, I think, but not a crazy one.  We probably don't need to worry too much about the power level implications.

 

 

 

I don't really endorse this level of hackery, but it's an option.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

I don't really endorse this level of hackery, but it's an option.

 

Ain't nuthin wrong with more options and thinkin outside the box.

[kelika2]

Some folks did this to me, so I am ganna pass it along.

 

Play a Sentinel if you want to sacrifice damage for survivability AND being able to look at your costume.  Form changing is instant these days and either Alt+# or Ctrl+# casting or even the classic /bind key "powexecname Nova Form/Dwarf Form"

 

Also some other little tips, your human form attacks have a lower base damage than your Nova form attacks.  to top that off Nova form has a DMG buff and Khelds have a 290% damage cap, a third of that is hit by Enhancements just incase you thought double mires did anything.

[golstat2003]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:46 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Toggle armors are made useless due to form shifting.

 

Human clicks don't work if you have mez stacked on dwarf form and you shift down.

 

Toggleoff macros fail if you're in a form animation when you click them.

 

Limited power selection while in the forms forces constant form hopping just to have decently paced attack chains. Yes, it was even worse before the T1-T2 human blasts were made available to the forms.

 

But hey, at least cosmic balance buffs the kheldian now instead of just partially relieving the debuffs they once had for being solo. And they're sometimes fun to watch while high.

 

They were horribly designed at go live, damn near completely unplayable solo, (which I did anyway,) but they got better with the overhaul and with ample IO usage.

 

Here on HC, I've already built and deleted fully IOed and lvl 50 human only PB and WS. I rebuilt the PB as a triform and soloed her up into the 30s and have now run a couple TFs with SG mates. Ran her through another solo mission this morning. Her WS counterpart sits at lvl 7. They are still a horribly designed AT and they need a hell of a lot more of a ground up redesign than just a change to the toggles.

 

Personally, I'd dump the toggles completely. Make them passives that carry over to the forms. Do something else entirely with the E/N power since the T1 already covers it. Maybe a slottable sustain passive. Allow human form clicks to work in the forms. Yes, that means the black dwarf gets two mires and the white dwarf gets two heals. So what? Even a fully cranked dwarf can't come close to matching a tank just as a fully buffed nova ain't gettin close to being a blaster.

 

Bill for Kheldian President. 😄 

[golstat2003]

On 2/14/2022 at 8:06 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Ain't nuthin wrong with more options and thinkin outside the box.

 

Yeah except you would probably need massive testing and expect that it would break various things wildly. But that's COH. We've come to expect the sphagetti code lol.

[aethereal]

14 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

Yeah except you would probably need massive testing and expect that it would break various things wildly. But that's COH. We've come to expect the sphagetti code lol.

 

What I was suggesting wasn't a code change.  It's something that can be done within the existing power effects framework (unless there's something I'm not thinking of, but I'm pretty confident there isn't).  It might have unintended consequences of one kind or another, but probably not actual bugs.  I modeled it off of how Energy Transfer's health "cost" works, and that doesn't seem to have bugs.

[kelika2]

For what its worth, the human toggles are great IO mules

[PhoenixV117]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:50 AM, Vanden said:

 

Because it’s possible to code the effects of the powers to suppress while shapeshifted, but not the endurance costs. That’s a lot more work to implement.

I think you misunderstand, I’m fine with the end cost as I don’t want the shields suppressed why can’t the shields still be effective in forms. Won’t make us tankier than scrappers won’t make us better than brutes just a QOL thing.