Why do people say Poison needs help?

[arcane]

Just now, kiramon said:

Just give me some mez protection built into VG and I'll be set, thanks.

 

Grr clarion.

Clarion, Melee, RoP, IW, break frees, kill mezzers, debuff mezzers, mez mezzers, let teammates grab aggro, etc etc etc I’m sure I missed a few.

 

Ok you’re all set now 🙂

[Wavicle]

6 hours ago, Parabola said:

Poison is a very weird set in my eyes. Lopsided and back to front. Most of its functionality comes in just four powers and most of the rest are totally skippable. And it gives its hard target debuffs first (for all those av fights we have at low levels...), but it makes you wait all the way to the tier 9 for its general mob debuff. No set should have that number of skippable powers or be that backloaded imo.

Kinetics says hello.

[arcane]

I *love* how many skippable powers Poison has (4-5 depending on AT). Having a fully functional build require such minimal slotting is a blessing not a curse. Your secondary/pool/epic power/slotting choices just got that much easier. 

[momentarygrace]

7 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

I agree. Needs more spitting animations. Including the rez. Let me vomit teammates to life.

 

This would be so awesome. Concept: reverse/reformed Vahz on a mission to balance the scales... I want this. 😄 

[kiramon]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Clarion, Melee, RoP, IW, break frees, kill mezzers, debuff mezzers, mez mezzers, let teammates grab aggro, etc etc etc I’m sure I missed a few.

 

Ok you’re all set now 🙂

 

1. I mentioned Clarion

1.5 I missed Melee; that's acceptable

2. Im not ever going psychic

3. Im not ever going Sorcery

4. I dont press fkeys

5. Valid

6. Valid

7. With what

8. Who waits for teammates

9. Etc

 

As a side note, I love poison. I have 4 poisons fully IO'd/Incarnated (Water/Poison, Poison/Sonic, Necro/Poison, Demon/Poison) - so it's not that I don't like the set 🙂 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by kiramon

[KaizenSoze]

I have a level 50 poison defender, which I don't play anymore.

 

Issue one, completely subjective. Poison's effects are non very obvious, except for poison trap. So, I feel like I am not doing much.

 

Second issue, probably still subjective, high level game play. At higher levels mobs are physically spread out in many missions. This make it difficult to defensively debuff toHit.  Unlike, for instance, trick arrow which has flash arrow. I need to move into melee range to be safe, but there are mobs not effected by my debuffs launching AOEs. Make for a constant anxiety about if I should be at range or in melee which kills the fun.

 

I haven't though about poison in awhile. So, I don't have any suggestion at the moment.

[arcane]

8 minutes ago, kiramon said:

 

1. I mentioned Clarion

1.5 I missed Melee; that's acceptable

2. Im not ever going psychic

3. Im not ever going Sorcery

4. I dont press fkeys

5. Valid

6. Valid

7. With what

8. Who waits for teammates

9. Etc

Sounds like a personal problem and not a Poison problem then 🙂
 

I click inspirations with my cursor btw. Refusing to use inspirations would render far too many AT’s busted to be a practical argument though.

Edited February 7, 2022 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

I click inspirations with my cursor btw.

 

Same unless I'm on my farmer which does use combine\use macros. Probably why I hate using them.

[arcane]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Same unless I'm on my farmer which does use combine\use macros. Probably why I hate using them.

My mac says F1/2/etc on buttons that primarily also change screen brightness, volume, etc. I actually have no earthly idea how to actually press “F1” tbh 🙂

[kiramon]

7 minutes ago, arcane said:

Sounds like a personal problem and not a Poison problem then 🙂
 

I click inspirations with my cursor btw. Refusing to use inspirations would render far too many AT’s busted to be a practical argument though.

 

Thanks for your contribution. 

Do you just spam breakfrees and keep them at 100% up time? Cuz my issue is really just VG dropping from being held. 

And by issue I mean annoyance. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by kiramon

[Wavicle]

20 minutes ago, kiramon said:

 

 

7. With what

 

One of the TWO holds the set comes with?

[arcane]

13 minutes ago, kiramon said:

 

Thanks for your contribution. 

Do you just spam breakfrees and keep them at 100% up time? Cuz my issue is really just VG dropping from being held. 

And by issue I mean annoyance. 

 

 

Umm I use them when needed. Preemptively if I think to but not all the time. My Poison/Ice uses Clarion, my Poison/Dark has RoP, my Elec/Poison has IW, but my other 3 Poisons have none of that I believe and they do fine. I don’t stress if VG drops now and then, it usually doesn’t but I know how to evade and survive if it does.

Edited February 7, 2022 by arcane

[kiramon]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

One of the TWO holds the set comes with?

 

Poison Trap I'll give you.  Idk if Im running PP even procced out. 

 

[Wavicle]

I had seen elsewhere people suggesting poison is in as bad shape as FF and that just seems utterly ludicrous to me.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

I had seen elsewhere people suggesting poison is in as bad shape as FF and that just seems utterly ludicrous to me.

Because it is ludicrous. Those people simply don’t know how to play Poison.

[Parabola]

51 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Kinetics says hello.

Yeah I don't rate kinetics as being a particularly well designed set either. Good at what it does certainly but too much filler and redundancy.

[kiramon]

1 minute ago, Parabola said:

Yeah I don't rate kinetics as being a particularly well designed set either. Good at what it does certainly but too much filler and redundancy.

Were you around with kinetics at launch? 

 

They used to LAUGH 'em off teams - until you Transfusion'd a grey XD 

[arcane]

Just now, Parabola said:

Yeah I don't rate kinetics as being a particularly well designed set either. Good at what it does certainly but too much filler and redundancy.

Well if a poor design yields one of the best and most popular sets in the game, what exactly is useful about your definition of good design? 

[arcane]

Improper inspiration usage will render so many easy things in this game difficult, it really is critical to being able to play the game well on every class instead of being limited to certain ones. No, inspiration usage does not need to be constant to be effective. You just have to know how to be quick and reactive.

[Uun]

I solo AVs with my Illusion/Poison. I could suggest tweaks to a few powers, but the set is basically fine.

[Wavicle]

15 minutes ago, arcane said:

Well if a poor design yields one of the best and most popular sets in the game, what exactly is useful about your definition of good design? 

In this case I think I have to somewhat agree. While Kinetics overall is fine, it is improperly balanced within. Fulcrum Shift is OP and the rest of the set suffers for it.

I'm not seeing the same being true of Poisons. Venomous Gas is good, but not THAT good.

[Parabola]

7 minutes ago, arcane said:

Well if a poor design yields one of the best and most popular sets in the game, what exactly is useful about your definition of good design? 

A criteria for good set design that I thought I shared with just about everyone is that every power choice should be meaningful. A set being popular because it does a couple of things very well doesn't make it well designed. People like sets with the odd skippable power so they can build in all sorts of other things and that's fine but they should be having to at least consider the powers they are dropping.

[arcane]

7 minutes ago, Parabola said:

A criteria for good set design that I thought I shared with just about everyone is that every power choice should be meaningful. A set being popular because it does a couple of things very well doesn't make it well designed. People like sets with the odd skippable power so they can build in all sorts of other things and that's fine but they should be having to at least consider the powers they are dropping.

Welp agree to disagree on that one. Most of my absolute favorite characters are exceptional because their builds afforded them bandwidth to really go all out. For instance SR tanks need almost zero slotting towards their primary, so I wasn’t forced to choose between set bonuses and proc bombs on mine. The build was so wide open that I 5 slotted Brawl and Boxing for bonuses and made my main attacks as OP as possible. 
 

Other sets that afford you tons of flexibility include Illusion Control and Radiation Emission. It’s almost like power skippability defines the best sets in the game.

 

Most powers can be desirable, so I don’t think we have a problem there, but I find it painful when too many powers feel mandatory.

Edited February 7, 2022 by arcane

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

It’s almost like power skippability defines the best sets in the game.

 

I'm going to have to agree with Parabola, THAT fact is bad design.

[Wavicle]

Here's a question though, should Stealth suppress Venomous Gas?