Debuff Resistance/Status Protection power pool?

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

And considering you’re probably going to reference discrepancies in exact completion times between AT’s soloing against +4x8 carnies with an arbitrary no inspirations rule to counter my point, I suspect you don’t have a real case either tbh.

 

The fact that you need insps to handle what I do without pretty much makes the case on its own. But as we still find, the crowd that insists X should be weaker and/or annoying to play for whatever reason will remain that crowd. No different than those that fight against fixes for Kheldians or Regen.

[Naraka]

9 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Crashless nukes were just kind of needed. Yeah, that was one squishy-specific buff along with improved Blaster secondaries that greatly helped them, but the point that it's more about just the general things everyone's received have benefited them more than others... but implying ungratefulness is a bit much.

 

If cashless nukes weren't implemented, the sets that already had crashless nukes (AR, Arch and DP) would have some edge for their inherent limitations which would help even the playing field. Also, there might be more emphasis on build that skip the nuke for a traditional dps AoE rotation.

 

It wasn't a necessary change, it was a desired change. At the end of the day, people want their burst damage then later complained that enemies died too quickly and deemphasize other aspects of gameplay like buffs/debuffs and controls.

 

Putting more mez protection for squishies starts to undermine the whole purpose of Sentinel existing.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

The fact that you need insps to handle what I do without pretty much makes the case on its own. But as we still find, the crowd that insists X should be weaker and/or annoying to play for whatever reason will remain that crowd. No different than those that fight against fixes for Kheldians or Regen.

The fact that you’re not willing to consider integral parts of the game (inspirations) pretty much makes my case on its own. If you refuse to exist within the game’s status quo, what relevance do your points have.

 

Obviously I am not insisting anything should be weaker or more annoying to play because we’re talking about my *favorite* AT’s there.

Edited February 15, 2022 by arcane

[Naraka]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

The fact that you need insps to handle what I do without pretty much makes the case on its own. But as we still find, the crowd that insists X should be weaker and/or annoying to play for whatever reason will remain that crowd. No different than those that fight against fixes for Kheldians or Regen.

 

I wouldn't "fight against" those changes if the suggested changes were unique and creative lol

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

The fact that your not willing to consider integral parts of the game (inspirations) pretty much makes my case on its own. If you refuse to exist within the game’s status quo, what relevance do your points have.

 

I'm happy to consider their existence and use. What annoys me is how the pro-insps side likes to pretend they never run out and thus ignore/gloss over the actual in-game ramifications of when you don't have that break free for those stacked mezzes. It's dishonest. And as with most things, there's nothing inherently good about the status quo.

 

[arcane]

23 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I'm happy to consider their existence and use. What annoys me is how the pro-insps side likes to pretend they never run out and thus ignore/gloss over the actual in-game ramifications of when you don't have that break free for those stacked mezzes. It's dishonest. And as with most things, there's nothing inherently good about the status quo.

 

They only run out if you aren’t paying attention at all over a long period of time. Not only do you have to have no Break Frees, but you have to run out of opportunities to combine inspirations. If you’re spamming Break Frees like an incompetent then you might run out. If you’re keeping them around but use them strategically, that shouldn’t be happening but once in a blue moon.

 

You may not like the status quo but if you refuse to use inspirations, you have stepped away from the balance conversation.

 

Only dishonesty I see here is low-balling the power of inspirations and good tactics while wildly exaggerating the threat of mez.

Edited February 15, 2022 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 minutes ago, arcane said:

They only run out if you aren’t paying attention at all over a long period of time.

 

So right, my bad. And I also completely forgot about just storing them in email, too. Yea, makes perfect sense to "balance" around their use. Let's also all be sure to "balance" around P2W amplifiers, warburg nukes and signature summons! All it takes is superior planning and a better understanding of how to use them, after all!

Edited February 15, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[arcane]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

So right, my bad. And I also completely forgot about just storing them in email, too. Yea, makes perfect sense to "balance" around their use. Let's also all be sure to "balance" around P2W amplifiers, warburg nukes and signature summons! All it takes is superior planning and a better understanding of how to use them, after all!

Inspirations are an integral part of the game and are introduced in the tutorial. These are bad comparisons and I think you know better than that. I get irrational too about personally frustrating subjects, and I assume that’s what happened here.

[Wobegone]

Just now, arcane said:

They only run out if you aren’t paying attention at all over a long period of time. Not only do you have to have no Break Frees, but you have to run out of opportunities to combine inspirations. If you’re spamming Break Frees like an incompetent then you might run out. If you’re keeping them around but use them strategically, that shouldn’t be happening but once in a blue moon.

 

You may not like the status quo but if you refuse to use inspirations, you have stepped away from the balance conversation.

I just wanna get a baseline here.  Are you talking solo leveling Defenders organically or power-leveling them to 50, loading them with IOs, then soloing?  

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

Inspirations are an integral part of the game and are introduced in the tutorial. These are bad comparisons and I think you know better than that. I get irrational too about personally frustrating subjects, and I assume that’s what happened here.

 

Only irrational thing going on around here comes from the folks that think AT/powerset balance discussions should involve inspiration use.

[KaizenSoze]

17 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

My new Bane SoA gets mezzed and knocked around far more than I expected he would and that's an AT that comes with built in mez protection. 6 whole points when you have both armors. Course now that I'm looking I see it has 0 pts to knock. Explains that issue. My main Sent (bio) is sitting on 8.3 with 9.33 to knock. I don't see how easy access to 4 pts of mez protection will change the balance of the game at all while it will make the random mez not nearly the PITA that it is now.

Yes, one the weird things about Bane is no knock back protection.

 

Easy enough to fix with two slots, but still I always found it odd.

 

I can't remember the last time my Bane got mezzed though. High defense, plus decent protection, seems to avoid the issue.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, KaizenSoze said:

Yes, one the weird things about Bane is no knock back protection.

 

Easy enough to fix with two slots, but still I always found it odd.

 

I can't remember the last time my Bane got mezzed though. High defense, plus decent protection, seems to avoid the issue.

 

Yea, mine's a lowbie. Nowhere near softcapped to anything yet.

[arcane]

13 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Only irrational thing going on around here comes from the folks that think AT/powerset balance discussions should involve inspiration use.

Pretty sure our past and present devs are irredeemably irrational by that logic. This is where we have few options left but for you to perhaps try another game. Inspirations being an integral part of the game and a resource you are expected to benefit from has kind of been a non-negotiable fact since 2004.

[arcane]

20 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

I just wanna get a baseline here.  Are you talking solo leveling Defenders organically or power-leveling them to 50, loading them with IOs, then soloing?  

My comments are relevant to all content, but yes I IO my characters personally before playing them. If you don’t do that though, it isn’t a dealbreaker at all because SO’s can easily handle the lower difficulty settings you should be using if you have SO’s. If people expect to solo +4x8 with every character, sub-50, no IO’s, well, they’re once again stepping outside the bounds of the balance conversation.

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

Pretty sure our past and present devs are irredeemably irrational by that logic. This is where we have few options left but for you to perhaps try another game. Inspirations being an integral part of the game and a resource you are expected to benefit from has kind of been a non-negotiable fact since 2004.

 

Way to miss the point as usual, Arcane. And, no, I won't be going anywhere, thankfully in part to knowing that the devs have never made AT/powerset decisions based on inspiration use. That's some fanciful thing created by players.

[arcane]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Way to miss the point as usual, Arcane. And, no, I won't be going anywhere, thankfully in part to knowing that the devs have never made AT/powerset decisions based on inspiration use. That's some fanciful thing created by players.

Then we’re not playing the same video game and therefore why discuss anything.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, arcane said:

Then we’re not playing the same video game and therefore why discuss anything.

 

Go find a single patch note since go live where a powerset or archetype was changed, buffed or nerfed, specifically because of inspiration usage. You're making the claim, back it up.

[arcane]

12 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Go find a single patch note since go live where a powerset or archetype was changed, buffed or nerfed, specifically because of inspiration usage. You're making the claim, back it up.

Searching the forum on my phone is a pain in the ass. Remind me later and I will consider your demands for some of my personal time.
 

Until then, why don’t you think about (1) why would the devs both deny you global mez protection *AND* expect you to not to move a finger to mitigate mez in any other way? Does that make any sense? (2) Why are inspirations a part of the tutorial? (3) I can’t recall any clear-cut proof that enhancements are considered a part of the balance conversation - can you please spend your own free time on a frivolous fishing expedition to establish the obvious for me? You will not be reimbursed and I may have more demands after the fact.

Edited February 15, 2022 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, arcane said:

Searching the forum on my phone is a pain in the ass. Remind me later and I will consider your demands for some of my personal time.

 

As expected.

 

Just now, arcane said:

Until then, why don’t you think about (1) why would the devs both deny you global mez protection *AND* expect you to not to move a finger to mitigate mez in any other way? Does that make any sense? (2) Why are inspirations a part of the tutorial? (3) I can’t recall any clear-cut proof that enhancements are considered a part of the balance conversation - can you please spend your own free time on a frivolous fishing expedition to establish the obvious for me?

 

1: False question. Squishies were denied mez protection at go live for the reasons Luminara already pointed out earlier in the thread.

2: Inspirations are in the game as a way to temporarily buff yourself when needed and are in no way supposed to be considered a static component of one's build unlike...

3: enhancements.

 

Your personal attacks are a fantastic way of proving to us all that your arguments and beliefs are worthless, so thanks for those as well.

[PeregrineFalcon]

The only problem I see is that if all ATs have a way to deal with, or ignore, mez then why bother having mezzes in the game?

 

A complete rebalance of the game involving giving everyone access to temporary mez protection, along with reducing how common mezzes are, would work. As I mentioned before it works in SWTOR. But, that would mean that the devs would have to go in and change the powers on every single AT and every single enemy group. That would be a massive undertaking.

 

As it is currently, every AT has access to Rune of Protection. And while I personally don't take it on many characters, because of thematic reasons, there's no reason that you couldn't if you really want the mez protection.

[Doomguide2005]

While I'm sure just about everything falls under consideration for balancing a game (or set or AT or power or ... ) I'm equally sure inspiration usage falls fairly far down the overall list.  All characters have access to them, all characters can combine, all characters can yoink them from mail or the AH.  All characters which complicates balancing 'stuff' around it complex even if it seems otherwise as any change is going to ripple across all characters (or represents a very core change to the mechanics)

[A Cat]

At level 50 you will probably never run out of inspirations. You have a lot of slots and a lot of firepower to get more inspirations before they can run out. At level 20 though? You have way fewer, and kill slower. I definitely have run out on lower levels before. It's not a matter of skill. It is a matter of luck. 

 

For the record I also disagree with universal mez protection outside what we have. Not every AT is going to solo the same. It would be hard to achieve that. I'm up for the other powers, as long as the DDR is costly in power picks/not too good to take over SR's thing. 

[Marbing]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

The only problem I see is that if all ATs have a way to deal with, or ignore, mez then why bother having mezzes in the game?

I agree to an extent but, in my opinion, I think it can be done right. Mag 3 mez prot isn’t going to make you immune to much, most of the problem mobs stack mez anyways and if you do this in a way that would require build sacrifices then you would have a built in trade off for the desired effect.

 

Another idea for this would be, what if the power protected you from from mez up to the point that you would be mezzed and then drops and goes in recharge?

 

For example:

 

Toggle on, you have Mag 3 hold protection.

 

Mob hits you with Mag 2 hold, nothing happens.

 

Mob stacks 2 Mag 2 holds on you for a total of 4 Mag. The protection drops and goes on 30 sec recharge. You are NOT held but now you have no protection for the next 30 seconds.

Could be that the toggle never drops but the prot does go away after it’s limits are reached and then auto turns back on? Idk if that would even work, just thinking outside the box… as a sort of compromise. 

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

1 minute ago, A Cat said:

At level 50 you will probably never run out of inspirations. You have a lot of slots and a lot of firepower to get more inspirations before they can run out. At level 20 though? You have way fewer, and kill slower. I definitely have run out on lower levels before. It's not a matter of skill. It is a matter of luck. 

 

For the record I also disagree with universal mez protection outside what we have. Not every AT is going to solo the same. It would be hard to achieve that. I'm up for the other powers, as long as the DDR is costly in power picks/not too good to take over SR's thing. 

     This^ pretty much sums it up for me.  I have run an absolute ton of characters and a major chunk of them have been squishies and many of those with no mez protection outside of CJ and these days Knock protection.  I can only really recall it being a major issue (as in getting perma-mezzed to death) once on my Kin/Dark to point of loading my tray (repeatedly) with breakfrees.  But this was long before combining, IOs, etc., was an option.  It was a mission full of DE tossing  spore clouds at me.

 

      It's also clearly a tolerance to an occurrence in the game with (much like knockback) has a wide spectrum among the playerbase.

[Rudra]

Adding mez protection to the squishies is not really needed. Not in my experience. And I'm the kind of person that can run through multiple missions before I finally see a replacement inspiration drop. On a corruptor, one of my favorite ATs, I check the spawn, find the mezzer, then gank the mezzer. Deal with the rest of the spawn after. The primary mezzer is a boss? I blind the boss (Darkest Night, Radiation Infection, whatever) and do my best to drop him/her as quickly as possible, hoping the mezzes miss me in the interim. In the meantime, I'm flying out of the opposition's reach, so even if I am mezzed, I will hopefully not be swarmed to death. I can't do that? Then I hit and run the spawn until only the boss is left, then grit my teeth and go for it, popping reds and purples to gank the boss as quick as I can. Like has been said already, there are options for squishies to deal with mezzers. It doesn't always work, and if you have the inspirations, you can use them to mitigate the situation, but options are there.

 

Again, I am not against this idea, but neither am I for it. Inspirations are a core part of the game. They are there to get you out of a bad situation. They are not build considerations. You can't rely on having them when you need to, but they are a consideration.