Not sure if this has been asked: PvP on/off switch

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Give it up, @Marbing. Logic and definitions are meaningless in that discussion. Just let them keep thinking that player versus player and the area where player versus player content means the environment and available environmental hazards are also players. Just... give it up. They will keep arguing nonsense.

i thought you were done? Regardless, you’re still wrong. Everything in a pvp zone is part of pvp. Even the environment and npcs.

[Rudra]

I am done. I'm advising someone to not waste their time. (Edit: And giving the reason why they should not. One should always justify their advice.)

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[golstat2003]

49 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Give it up, @Marbing. Logic and definitions are meaningless in that discussion. Just let them keep thinking that player versus player and the area where player versus player content means the environment and available environmental hazards are also players. Just... give it up. They will keep arguing nonsense.

 

It's not nonsense. The devs on homecoming have already asked and answered that everything in a pvp zone is part of pvp content. 

[Troo]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:56 AM, AlabasterKnight said:

The option to disable PvP.

No big splash.

Apologies if this has been suggested before.

 

AlabasterKnight, your idea is not crazy. Similar topics have been asked enough to acknowledge there is something to the request.

Maybe a alternate similar idea would be better received. It would need a way to be implemented in a way that could not be abused. That's possibly no small task.

 

On 3/17/2022 at 12:57 PM, Luminara said:

The HC team strives to maintain the core design philosophies and intentions of the previous development teams

 

Hahaha.. 'strives'

good one

Given the changes that have been made to PvP and the resulting massive increase in pvp play.. oh wait.. nevermind

[Troo]

20 hours ago, Wavicle said:

The fundamental misunderstanding is this:

 

 There ARE NO Non-PvP activities in PvP zones.

 

It's all PvE until another opposing player shows up. PvP zones without other players are similar to hazard zones, aren't they?

 

(while adhering to the pvp zone rules and mechanics as pointed out by @battlewraith)

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Troo

[MTeague]

On 3/19/2022 at 10:43 AM, Greycat said:

 

Honestly, a more ... equivalent flag would be "Invasion off." They interrupt people trying to get to missions, do hunts, etc. Being able to turn them off while you try to get to a GM or zone event, or collect exploration badges? That would be handy. You could do it without zombies spawning everywhere or getting blasted by a dropship, regardless of how anyone else in the zone felt. People have complained about having to wait out invasions or go do things elsewhere while they were going on in the past, as well, just like they complain about PVPers in PVP zones.

 

Yet somehow this never gets asked for...

 

(Obviously not a serious suggestion.)

 

I mean, you joke, but I have retreated to goldside lowbies or some first ward action when I just really, REALLY didn't want to deal with invasions out the wazoo on LadyGrey Week.  I never made a request for a game change, because that would be silly, but i have deliberately gone to zones where they cannot possibly occur.

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

 

It's all PvE until another opposing player shows up. PvP zones without other players are similar to hazard zones, aren't they?

 

Pvp mechanics are applied to your character whether or not anyone else is in the zone, along with the countdown that indicates when you are vulnerable to attack from other players.

You know...because it's a pvp zone.

 

[Marbing]

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

They might ALSO be pve content, but that’s a slightly different point.

 

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

 

It's not nonsense. The devs on homecoming have already asked and answered that everything in a pvp zone is part of pvp content. 

Whether or not this is true (source needed, thanks) doesn’t negate the fact that PvP zones can contain PvE content. Just because you want to also call it PvP doesn’t mean it isn’t also PvE. If I am fighting an arachnos in a PvP zone I can be simultaneously engaging in PvE and PvP. Therefor, PvE content does exist in a PvP zone. Just as @Wavicle said above (Thanks bud!). 

 

So can we please end this stupid semantics war? It’s kind of pointless…

[Wavicle]

It’s not semantic. No one was ever arguing that you Weren’t engaging in pve. The disagreement was over whether you were engaging in pvp. Which you are when exploring ANY content in the zones.

[Troo]

22 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Pvp mechanics are applied to your character whether or not anyone else is in the zone, along with the countdown that indicates when you are vulnerable to attack from other players.

You know...because it's a pvp zone.

 

 

You have a good point. The way powers & stats work can be different in PvP environments.

 

This is not the same as someone PvPing.

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Troo

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Marbing said:

 

Whether or not this is true (source needed, thanks) doesn’t negate the fact that PvP zones can contain PvE content. Just because you want to also call it PvP doesn’t mean it isn’t also PvE. If I am fighting an arachnos in a PvP zone I can be simultaneously engaging in PvE and PvP. Therefor, PvE content does exist in a PvP zone. Just as @Wavicle said above (Thanks bud!). 

 

So can we please end this stupid semantics war? It’s kind of pointless…

 

The arguments that there is pve content in the pvp zones are equivocating two senses of the phrase "pve".

Yes, if you are fighting an npc in a pvp zone there is truth to the description that you are doing player versus environment. Beyond that basic description, the statement is false.

 

While in the zone you are flagged for pvp. The mechanics of the pvp zone differ from the mechanics of pve areas of the game. And the purpose and design of the zone is to facilitate pvp encounters. There is also the strawman being presented here that zone pvp does not also encompass interactions with npcs. The infamous Twixt used to teleport people into clusters of npcs in order to kill them. One way to get rid of something like rad infection used to be jumping into a cluster of npcs and aggroing them onto the enemy player.

[Marbing]

22 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It’s not semantic. No one was ever arguing that you Weren’t engaging in pve. The disagreement was over whether you were engaging in pvp. Which you are when exploring ANY content in the zones.

I actually agree that you are engaged in PvP in the zone. I could have sworn someone somewhere said there was no PvE content in those zones, if that’s not true then disregard my statement and carry on. 

[Rudra]

22 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It’s not semantic. No one was ever arguing that you Weren’t engaging in pve. The disagreement was over whether you were engaging in pvp. Which you are when exploring ANY content in the zones.

I call bullshit. The disagreement was never about whether a player is engaging in PvP when in a PvP zone. I have time after time after fucking time stated that yes, when in a PvP zone, you are in PvP. I said I was done. Now, obviously, I'm fucking not. I am so damn tired of people saying things are being said when they are not.

 

"Quote from ME: Comic books." Except I never said that.

 

Argument/discussion involving me: Players are only engaging in PvE content when in PvP zones.

 

BULLSHIT! That is not what ANYONE in this thread said. Anywhere. At all.

[Rudra]

Excuse me. I'm going to go cool off.

[Wavicle]

You absolutely said that there is content in those zones that is PvE content and NOT PvP content, and what I am saying is that everything in those zones, regardless of whether it is PvE content (in the sense of being computer controlled) or not, is PvP content. You keep calling my statements ludicrous, but I'm pretty sure what I'm stating is just the basic facts of the system at hand.

 

Stalking players at the badge points is a legit PvP tactic. Training npcs onto the enemy is a legit PvP tactic. Therefore all of those elements are part of the PvP content of the zone. Maybe it is semantic, I'm no longer sure, but I'm still right.

I hope you enjoyed your cigarette, or tea, or nice walk, or whatever. I'm not trying to be a jerk or to troll you. I don't like the original idea that started the thread because I think entering the zone should remain an agreement to engage in PvP content.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Wavicle

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I don't like the original idea that started the thread because I think entering the zone should remain an agreement to engage in PvP content.

 

On 3/18/2022 at 2:29 PM, Rudra said:

The answer to the OP is still no, and scary as it may seem as one of the people you are criticizing, I agree it should be no.

I do not disagree that when a player enters a PvP zone, regardless of the reason, (s)he is engaging in PvP. I have never disagreed with that, even when I was arguing against that being a requirement back in whatever thread we last had this discussion for this long.

 

If you are in a PvP zone, you are using PvP versions of your powers, you are subject to attacks from other players, and you are able to attack other players. All that is PvP.

 

What I had been trying to say, is that there is PvE content in the PvP zones. That PvE content was placed there to ensure non-PvP'ers had a reason to go into the zones. They have to face PvP while in the zone. They have to risk PvP while in the zone. They are PvP while in the zone. They went into the PvP zone for PvE reasons is all I or anyone else in this thread has stated.

 

Are we PvP in the zone? Yes. Do I think we should be PvP while in the zone? A few other posters convinced me that yes, we should be. That was never in dispute in this thread. The reason for us being there was the dispute.

 

Do I have problems with PvE content being in PvP zones? I used to. And if there was a sizable PvP population, I probably still would. I readily admit the PvE content is in the zone to ensure PvP opportunities. My argument was about why non-PvP'ers go into a PvP zone, not are they engaging in PvP.

 

Edit: Also, I apologize for my rant.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[golstat2003]

4 hours ago, Marbing said:

 

Whether or not this is true (source needed, thanks) doesn’t negate the fact that PvP zones can contain PvE content. Just because you want to also call it PvP doesn’t mean it isn’t also PvE. If I am fighting an arachnos in a PvP zone I can be simultaneously engaging in PvE and PvP. Therefor, PvE content does exist in a PvP zone. Just as @Wavicle said above (Thanks bud!). 

 

So can we please end this stupid semantics war? It’s kind of pointless…

 

Tell that to the devs. They said it. And you can go do the search. It's not hard to find.

[Marbing]

7 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

Tell that to the devs. They said it. And you can go do the search. It's not hard to find.

Dude, I was going to let this slide but this happens far too often on these forums. If YOU make a claim about “The Devs said XYZ” then YOU do your own research to show that. Otherwise you could just say anything you want and thus possibly spread misinformation. I am NOT saying that you are, you are probably right. But YOU need to prove that, not me. 

Regardless, the miscommunication has already been sorted out so it doesn’t really matter at this point. Have a nice day.

[SeraphimKensai]

On 3/18/2022 at 4:12 PM, MTeague said:

 

I mean, I get what you're saying. I know a lot of people who could stand to toughen up and realize some things they get worked up over, are just not even remotely important.

 

On the other hand.... I'm 51 now. The last time I was in an actual real life fight, I was probably... 11 or 12? 

 

I've done sparring in martial arts class. I've done the occasional bout vs another student the same way. But that's controlled, safe, you know who you're practicing against. They're friends or at worst fellow students/colleagues. You may get some adrenilin going from competitive spirit / pride. But it would not come even remotely close to an actual FOR REAL fight, where you don't know if the other guys is just looking to assert dominance or beat you down, or even kill you. Perhaps you're in the military and have seen combat duty? Perhaps you live in a much more rough-and-tumble area than I do, and ending up in an actual fistfight or worse is a fact of life for you. I don't know. But I don't think it's fair to expect most people to have sustained regular experience with real life fights.

I've got my share of fights and then some having played hockey, studied multiple martial arts and competed in tournaments, and been in the military/gone to war and back. I've been stabbed, shot at, almost blown up, and once almost beheaded.

 

I still train some MMA just as exercise with sparring weekly, but I've had the privilege of getting old and staying six feet tall.

 

Yes most people these days I doubt have ever taken a punch and I occasionally think they could bear to toughen up some, but now that I have a kid on the way I'm sure as hell hoping that my future child ends up one of those that can get through life without what I've had to go through. So of a safe room and feelings keeps them safe, I might not always understand it, but so be it.

 

PvP in this game used to be great, and even other games, but it's regressed more to children "pwning" and teabagging each other than actually reacting to a human AI that learns your tactics as you use them forcing constant self evolution and thought.