Why is there almost no talk about Sonic secondary

[desarix]

I just came back to the game and when it launched on Homecoming I made like 15 MMs of every kind and I am still interested in them. I tried to play another AT a scrapper and at the first Vahzilok mission I bailed and remembered why I disliked melee archetypes. I am not cut out for them since I am so terrible at fighting up close. So cutting to the chase I decided to try to play all those MMs I have and I am in quite a dilemma as I have too many and I could not decide on what to play. Then I saw a beast/sonic  I had and I came to look it up here. I saw no sonic builds and that got me really worried.

 

Anyway this was the build I had which is probably someone else's and I cannot recall whose, but here goes.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Wild Streak: Level 50 Mutation Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Beast Mastery
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Resonance
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Summon Wolves -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), BldMnd-Acc(34), BldMnd-Dmg(34), EdcoftheM-PetDef(36)
Level 1: Sonic Siphon -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(9)
Level 2: Sonic Barrier -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctArm-ResDam(3), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Sonic Haven -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(5), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 6: Train Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Call Ravens -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Knock%(9), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(13), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(13), AchHee-ResDeb%(19)
Level 10: Call Hawk -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 12: Summon Lions -- SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg(A), SvrRgh-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SvrRgh-Acc/EndRdx(36), SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SvrRgh-Acc(37), SvrRgh-PetResDam(37)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(15), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(15), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RedFrt-Def(17), RedFrt-EndRdx(19)
Level 16: Disruption Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(33), EndRdx-I(33)
Level 18: Fortify Pack -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 20: Sonic Dispersion -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(21), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(21), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResKB(25), HO:Ribo(46)
Level 26: Summon Dire Wolf -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(43)
Level 28: Grant Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Infiltration -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Tame Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Clarity -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Liquefy -- CldSns-Acc/Rchg(A), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(39)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(45), RedFrt-Def(45), RedFrt-EndRdx(46), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(48), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RedFrt-Def(50), RedFrt-EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Supremacy 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(27), Mrc-Rcvry+(29)
Level 4: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(25), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(27), PrfShf-End%(29)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon 
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Cimeroran Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 50: Portal Jockey 
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Task Force Commander 
Level 1: Alpha Howler Wolf 
Level 1: Howler Wolf 
Level 26: Dire Wolf 
Level 12: Lioness 
Level 1: Pack Mentality 
------------

 

[SeraphimKensai]

The biggest issues with sonic as a mastermind is that healing pets can be problematic, but you will have some really tanky pets as they'll reasonably have some damn good resistances.

 

Regarding your build I feel you over slotted your powers where you are just using generic IO's. Remember those can be +5'd.

 

Sonic can see a lot of use on team builds, however they get overshadowed in incarnates as a lot of people will be using Barrier. Otherwise liquidfy takes forever and a dog's age to recharge so it doesn't get as much use as it should imo.

[desarix]

You're right how could I have missed that. No healing.

 

I'll take your advice into consideration. It is a build from 2019 by a poster here and I had it saved. I will make changes thank you.

Edited March 23, 2022 by desarix

[pblue]

I have a Necro/Sonic. I have a while lot of Necros becasue I like them zombies, but I was keen to try Sonic as I'd heard good things about the combination.  In a nutshell, it was no fun to play while levelling (with frequent visits to the hospital), but now at incarnate level it is very strong.  The Zombies learn how to heal themselves eventually, and Medicine or Rebirth is enough to top them off. 

 

Personally I enjoyed Necro/Force Field more. They are pretty similar but Defence I find is more reliable and you get soft-cap much sooner.

 

Also, this might just be me, things like caltrops are other effects seemed completely wreck my sonic zombies in a way I never never experienced on my other Nerco characters. I suspect it something to do with Sonic being Resistance-based and my other Necros all have Defence-based secondaries, but don't quote me.

 

[kelika2]

Sonic (and thermal) really needs the pet buff IOs to really shine.

But giving up the big sonic bubble for thermal heals generally has more of an impact.

Liquefy has a long ass cooldown for what it is

Clarity's chance to be useful is too few and far inbetween

Sonic Cage causes ragequits

Disruption Field toggles off easily, slow pets or fast teammates OR elevators

Some pet sets dont have a melee

Bots/thugs really benefit from a snare pit

 

Its pretty cool to give your no-resist pets up to the 75% range or even capping them if you factor in innate resists but I have since rerolled most of my /sonics into others like Thermal, Cold, etc.

 

[desarix]

I will have a look at cold and thermal. I don't think I have tried those two yet. Thanks for all the reasoned out replies.

[Two Dollar Bill]

Sonic Resonance doesn't get any respect no matter what archetype it's on. I did post a couple builds for my Robot/Sonic Mastermind here back in 2020 and that thread was enthusiastically ignored by the community, so I'm jealous you got some conversation going here!

 

I think Sonic is a perfectly good secondary, but it is pretty passive and you spend a lot of your time spamming the same three attacks and Sonic Siphon. I have largely switched to Demon/Thermal when I'm in the mood to Mastermind.

 

[desarix]

I did think of taking first aid but in the end I think the many things already pointed out are relevant and the lack of popularity understandable. I'm sure in 2020 there were far more threads and yours just got buried in there when there were more exciting secondaries to discuss. Anyway I did play a Trick Arrow which despite all the criticism levied against it I found fun but glacially slow progress as I had to always try to keep Glue Arrow for every group. That made me drop it in the end. I can totally sympathize with people who don't want to play a secondary that has very slow recharges. Trick Arrow could have been great if they just shaved off a bunch of seconds but then may be it becomes too strong. I've no idea as I am not one to crunch numbers. 

 

Thanks for that build. If I do decide to roll a bot/sonic I will definitely use yours. Yes I am very lazy I just appropriate other people's builds.

[Two Dollar Bill]

I'm afraid neither of those of builds are current, I just haven't posted anything new since nobody was reading the thread anyway.

Although Robot/Sonic is fun to solo with, and I could do newspaper and mayhem missions all day, I think Sonic Resonance in general works better with melee pets. You need to stay close to your melee characters anyway to avoid breaking Disruption Field all the time, and to insure anyone who might need the damage resistance of Sonic Dispersion (the big bubble) is covered.

[desarix]

9 hours ago, Two Dollar Bill said:

I'm afraid neither of those of builds are current, I just haven't posted anything new since nobody was reading the thread anyway.

Although Robot/Sonic is fun to solo with, and I could do newspaper and mayhem missions all day, I think Sonic Resonance in general works better with melee pets. You need to stay close to your melee characters anyway to avoid breaking Disruption Field all the time, and to insure anyone who might need the damage resistance of Sonic Dispersion (the big bubble) is covered.

 

Well in your opinion do you think taking first aid will bring up this secondary in any way for a beast build. The problem would be fitting it in.

Edited March 25, 2022 by desarix

[Two Dollar Bill]

2 hours ago, desarix said:

 

Well in your opinion do you think taking first aid will bring up this secondary in any way for a beast build. The problem would be fitting it in.

For a Mastermind with ranged pets (Robots, Mercenaries) and high defense numbers (Force Field, Traps, Time) Medicine Pool powers can be great. With melee pets and a secondary which doesn't give you any defense buffs, I think you'll get interrupted a lot. I'd concentrate on supporting your pets with buffs and debuffs, maybe a bit of crowd control, and re-summon the casualties.

[Redletter]

There was a sonic build contest one time, I submitted my zombie/sonic mm and won a healthy amount of money for it despite it not being complete.

 

Problem is, it wasnt really fun to play. I did it to 48ish, and with how MMs work, getting to 50 with them wont change anything. I made a Beast/Sonic, that's... ok? I really wish I had healing, because RESIST damage, early game when you have all of ONE pet who's doing ALL the work? And NO heal? It's not good, even if you can debuff damage res early on.

 

The character doesnt really get going until you get MORE pets. Most secondaries dont have this problem. Most will be like "oh you have one pet? That's ok. We can help!" where as Sonic is like "You ONLY have ONE pet? Are you POOR? You KNOW I can ONLY target ONE person with my -res power, RIGHT? Every COUPLE of MINUTES! Why dont you come back when you have MORE pets, LOSER".

[desarix]

I have a lot of masterminds and I have played some without heals. I am not doing purple bosses or large groups even red and orange groups can be a challenge without a heal but if you had something like a repulsion bubble you can keep them away from your ranged pets but for ninja and beasts they cannot fight something that is being kept away from them. This is the main problem with not having a heal. I have a thug/poison build I am healing them constantly at 20. Pain too healing them one by one. However poison has some nice debuffs and thug has gang war that can be called upon for bosses.

 

I have a fetish for ninja pets. I just find watching them fight so much fun with those kicks and very nice animations until they take off like a fox after a hare and wham dead /sigh.

 

I think I will give up this folly. Thank you all for this nice discussion I am going with beasts/time , I know I have simply joined the crowd. I do have my Merc/Cold and Demon/Trick Arrow so I am bucking the trend right there.

Edited March 25, 2022 by desarix

[Meknomancer]

I play a ton of mm's but only a single one runs sonic and its just incredibly dull to play despite being able to handle most stuff. Its one of those sets that could use some work. I look at liquify the way i look at noxious gas, 2 tier 9 powers that need some love. Sonic cage is useless except in one respect and that is knowing you will skip it and have room for a useful power. Clarity usually gets skipped too. And your left with 2 buffs and a bunch of end hungry toggles and spend the rest of your power picks attempting to bump your defence. And the sound effects of sonic repulsion are enough to put you off it even though its amusing watching stuff flop about as they try to hit a pet. Most mm secondary's are fun and useful, even force fields are more interesting to play than sonic and sonic actually has a decent debuff, it never surprises me that i haven't seen one being played for almost a year now. But it isn't just on mm's, sonic needs love on all AT's, it used to be one of the most asked for sets on teams but after /cold was introduced it got dumped big time and hasn't made any sort of comeback since and never will til it gets a bit of a revamp.

[Force Redux]

Unfortunately, Sonic was poorly designed even in the old game, and has aged poorly against the changes since. I love the buffs when I'm teamed with a Ringer, but I can't stand to play one, despite multiple attempts solo, on teams, and various ATs, including MMs.

 

The debuff toggle is a PITA to keep up, it turns off constantly and is expensive for what it does compared to say, Tar Patch.

 

The bubble needs Sleep protection. Since it offers no defense, you get hit for everything, unlike Force Field. 

 

Liquify, as mentioned is an a punitively long recharge.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Force Redux

[Yomo Kimyata]

There were some good ideas in this thread, some of which were mastermindy:

 

 

[ExeErdna]

I'm finishing up a Demons/Sonic and its decent more so due to demons than sonic. Yes the Sonic Dispersion needs cover sleep because there's been too many times I got popped by some sleep move and I didn't even hear it. Liquify would 100% be on the build if the CD was shorter or lasted longer since it helped me solo some AV's when I was doing Scirocco's patron missions. I only picked sonic because I didn't want to heal since a lot of healing sets like Nature need you to lean on it more and knew the Ember demon's res aura would stack so overall as a group we're tanky,. Yet that psychic hole can be too nasty at times plus I couldn't get my def to way I thought it would be. So it's hit and miss in group content. Clarity wouldn't be skipped if it was an AOE and wasn't so late it's pointless 35+ you're pass the hell of Ruin Mages and other characters can cover themselves decent by that point. 

[desarix]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:53 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

There were some good ideas in this thread, some of which were mastermindy:

 

 

 

I was tempted again and then I looked at this thread. Some of it was quite creative. Thanks for this I laughed and reconsidered and then discarded.

[desarix]

I went ahead and levelled this to 30.  I must say even at 15 the pets are very well protected. They almost never die. I do have first aid up to field medic. The heal is very strong. I can always respec out of it later. At 15 can easily handle +2 missions and that Veles mission from Eagle Eye The EB was so easy I am beginning to think Sonic is definitely worth taking. I see psionic hole and I hope to plug it later. For now she is useful in groups with huge ring that provides res to everyone and the 2 res shields. Just make sure the pet you have the debuff res ring on does not die.

 

I think it is not as boring as FF because you have the single target minus res and since I have heals I'm quite busy  in missions.

 

While I agree it may not be as powerful as time, dark or traps it is worth a look if you want something different.

 

This is the build and still a work in progress. I am quite terrible at builds so please don't follow it. I just put it here for reference of what I am doing.

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Beast Mastery
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Resonance
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Wolves -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg(3), BldMnd-Acc(3), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), AchHee-ResDeb%(5), MarofSpr-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(7)
Level 1: Sonic Siphon -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Sonic Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(13)
Level 4: Sonic Haven -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(13), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(15), Ags-Psi/Status(15)
Level 6: Train Beasts -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Aid Other -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal(50)
Level 10: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(39), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 12: Summon Lions -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), BldMnd-Acc(19), BldMnd-Dmg(21), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(21), DefBuff(23), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(23)
Level 14: Aid Self -- DctWnd-Heal(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(25), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 16: Disruption Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Fortify Pack -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(29), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Rct-Def/Rchg(40), Rct-ResDam%(42)
Level 20: Sonic Dispersion -- RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam(33), RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(33), StdPrt-ResKB(37)
Level 22: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(27), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Field Medic -- RechRdx(A)
Level 26: Summon Dire Wolf -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(34), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(34), GlmoftheA-Dam%(36), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(36)
Level 28: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), ImpArm-ResDam(42)
Level 32: Tame Beasts -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Weave -- Ksm-Def/EndRdx(A), Ksm-ToHit+(39), Ksm-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Ksm-Def/Rchg(40)
Level 38: Liquefy -- SphIns-ToHitDeb(A), SphIns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(43), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(43), SphIns-%ToHit(45)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-Def/Rchg(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46)
Level 44: Web Envelope -- EnfOpr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(A), EnfOpr-Acc/Rchg(48), EnfOpr-EndRdx/Immob(48), EnfOpr-Immob/Rng(48), EnfOpr-Acc/Immob(50), EnfOpr-Acc/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Clarity -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Supremacy 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 1: Stamina -- EffAdp-EndMod(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(9), EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(9)
Level 1: Alpha Howler Wolf 
Level 1: Howler Wolf 
Level 26: Dire Wolf 
Level 12: Lioness 
Level 1: Pack Mentality 
------------

Edited May 19, 2022 by desarix