King of Cones!!

[Bionic_Flea]

A discussion Ukase started about the cone attack, Frost, made me think about tanks and cones and the benefit they get from the new and improved Gauntlet.

 

So what combos would benefit the most?  Titan Weapons is the only set with three cones so that would be my initial choice except that I vaguely remember that TW or some of its attacks were excluded.  I tried to seek guidance from Uberguy's CoD, but I didn't find it.

 

After that, Claws, Dual Blades, Spines and Staff each have two.  Leviathan Mastery has three!  And then Fighting and Force of Will have one more each for a total of 7, or 8 with TW.

 

What would you guys make to be a king of cones?  Bonus points for adding a Mids build, but I'm happy just talking about it.

[Onlyasandwich]

War Mace is a decent contender. 

 

Although many other secondaries might have more cones, WM actually has two cones you really want to use.

 

Crowd Control doesn't get the radius buff, but loves the extra targets.

 

Shatter is already semi-competitive if approached as a ST attack, and is really juicy on Tankers as a hard-hitting cone. Between this, CC, and Whirling, you have a really solid aoe attack chain without dipping into an epic.

 

Ultimately I think it's less how many cones a given combo has, and more about how much impact the Gauntlet buff has on it, and how much power it then represents compared to other possible combos. A few other stand-outs based on this:

• Frost of course, as you already mentioned. This attack is super proccy, already more end-efficient than normal, and comes back quickly. So simple to use with the radius buffs, and hits the whole crowd.
• Shadow Maul - Another attack with great baseline power that is a bit hard to leverage on other ATs, but turns into a spawn-destroyer on tankers.
• Savage Melee - Shred is the bridge between Savage Leap and Rending Flurry that makes /Savage the aoe monster that it is! 

 

Other sets may enjoy the buff to their cones, but I feel these are some of the cones where the tanker buffs make the most difference.

 

 

 

[ZemX]

6 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I vaguely remember that TW or some of its attacks were excluded.  I tried to seek guidance from Uberguy's CoD, but I didn't find it.

 

This is where you find that:

 

That little red (!) icon in the Activation Details.  Hover over it and this popup tells you what buffs don't affect this power.   So you're right, Arc of Destruction from TW is excluded from the 50% tanker "Arc" width buff on cones.  But then again, it's already a 120 degree cone, so it doesn't much need to be wider.

 

ETA: All three of TW's cones are Arc Disallowed but all three are 10ft and 120 degrees.   That's probably an important thing to consider if you are looking at how effective the build will be with cone attacks rather than just how many you can have at once.  Tankers get a 10 target cap with most cones, but just try to cram 10 targets into a Shadow Maul.  Even with the 180degree arc on Tankers, it's still a paltry 7ft range.  The Gauntlet radius buff does not apply to melee cone range.  Only certain cone attacks are range enhanceable like Frost, Throw Spines, and Shockwave.  The rest are as-listed in CoD.

Edited April 12, 2022 by ZemX

[Pzn]

My favorite is sweeping strike in dual blades.  The arc buff makes it feel nearly as wide as crowd control but it has an even quicker cast time.

[Major_Decoy]

As I recall from the beta thread about this change, Staff got the biggest benefit from the changes.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

That little red (!) icon in the Activation Details.  Hover over it and this popup tells you what buffs don't affect this power. 

Thanks!

 

I was looking at the icons on the right side of the screen and completely missed the ones on the left.  Even worse, I completely glossed over the typed section "Notes: Arc of Destruction is unaffected by arc changes.

 

I hear you on TW.  It may indeed be the king of cones of melee attacks regardless of gauntlet.  But the particular thing I am chasing now is the set that has the most cones that ARE effected by gauntlet bonus.

 

Looking at the red exclamation icons, it seems that Dual Blades and Staff keep the arc modifier.  Too bad I can't do Shield with either of those.

 

So next question: What Primary benefits the most from gauntlet?  I think it's Bio, Dark, Fire, and Rad as they each have a few PBAoEs.

 

[Bay]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:15 AM, Bionic_Flea said:

Bonus points for adding a Mids build, but I'm happy just talking about it.

My approach to Staff, specifically on Tanks, is high-ish Recharge to be able to take advantage of the increased cone size/target cap. So these are going to look a bit funky in that regard, but here's some food for thought...

 

Edit: Afterthought I feel is worth mentioning. The Bio stays in Offensive and either Mind or Soul Staff Forms, again focused on as much Recharge as possible, and Soul if End management is needed. Both of these builds are with the intent of "lol hit everything everywhere" and nothing else; at no point did I make the choice to pick Staff for its damage output.

Tank Bio-Staff.mxd

Tanker - Radiation Armor - Staff Fighting.mxd

Edited April 13, 2022 by Bay
Afterthoughts

[Naraka]

I think the most frustrating but most satisfying concept character I've made was my draconian necromancer from a dimension whose population are magic dragon warriors. Their genetics determine what kind of magic breath they can use: wind, fire, electricity, ect.

 

My character, on the other hand, being undead, can swap his body parts, specifically the throat, with other dragons. He can breath fire, ice, acid and a burst of sound in the game although his concept would include water and lighting breath as well but those don't exist.

[Bay]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

I think the most frustrating but most satisfying concept character I've made was my draconian necromancer from a dimension whose population are magic dragon warriors. Their genetics determine what kind of magic breath they can use: wind, fire, electricity, ect.

 

My character, on the other hand, being undead, can swap his body parts, specifically the throat, with other dragons. He can breath fire, ice, acid and a burst of sound in the game although his concept would include water and lighting breath as well but those don't exist.

I think you may have posted in the wrong area? This is the Tank section and seems like you're talking about concepts/roleplay.

[Naraka]

45 minutes ago, Bay said:

I think you may have posted in the wrong area? This is the Tank section and seems like you're talking about concepts/roleplay.

It is a Tanker (a Bio/Fire one).

 

And he took primarily cones. It's just he just specifically took cones that are breaths.

[Bionic_Flea]

22 minutes ago, Bay said:

This is the Tank section and seems like you're talking about concepts/roleplay.

I think he was going with the cones theme, as all those breath attacks are cones.

 

I had a Staff/Bio Brute on live (named BioStic Flea, 'natch) that I liked a lot, even though he wasn't a monster damage dealer.  It was fun messing with the six different stances to figure out what worked in different circumstances.  Like you, I ended up staying in Offensive/Mind most of the time, but leveling up I did use the defensive or endurance efficient modes.

[Mezmera]

 

This is what came to mind when I first read the title so I'm going with it. 

[aethereal]

8 hours ago, Naraka said:

My character, on the other hand, being undead, can swap his body parts, specifically the throat, with other dragons. He can breath fire, ice, acid and a burst of sound in the game although his concept would include water and lighting breath as well but those don't exist.

 

Are you suggesting that a single character can get all four of those attacks?  How did you get a sonic attack?  Fire melee for fire, leviathan mastery for cold and toxic.

[Naraka]

7 hours ago, aethereal said:

 

Are you suggesting that a single character can get all four of those attacks?  How did you get a sonic attack?  Fire melee for fire, leviathan mastery for cold and toxic.

Wall of force from the force of will pool. That could conceptually be wind or sound although it does psi/smash damage.

[Bionic_Flea]

10 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

This is what came to mind when I first read the title so I'm going with it. 

I could totally see bowling ball melee and/or bowling ball blast as a power-set.  Make it so!

[InvaderStych]

[Ghimel]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:29 PM, Naraka said:

I think the most frustrating but most satisfying concept character I've made was my draconian necromancer from a dimension whose population are magic dragon warriors. Their genetics determine what kind of magic breath they can use: wind, fire, electricity, ect.

 

My character, on the other hand, being undead, can swap his body parts, specifically the throat, with other dragons. He can breath fire, ice, acid and a burst of sound in the game although his concept would include water and lighting breath as well but those don't exist.

Go on....

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, Ghimel said:

Go on....

 

I don't know what else to say about it except it was sort of a challenge/concept build that a.) Took any and all possible cone attacks that look like elemental breaths and b.) Since going with Fire Melee to get the fire breath, he didn't take or use any of the fire melee attacks except the breath and the sword attacks. 

 

Conceptually, he uses necromantic energy to swap out his body parts (the Bio powers are part of him changing his skin and bones too) and I just extended that energy into forming a sword of that energy. Having to build an attack chain with only Fire Sword + Breath of fire (and a little later, Fire Sword Circle) in the early levels was painful and didn't really smooth out until 39+ when I got more breath attacks and Greater Fire Sword to add to the chain.

[ZemX]

On 4/12/2022 at 8:31 PM, Bionic_Flea said:

So next question: What Primary benefits the most from gauntlet?  I think it's Bio, Dark, Fire, and Rad as they each have a few PBAoEs.

 

Gauntlet's radius arc should affect any AoE not tagged with that disallowed strength note.  Not sure about pseudo-pets though.  I think not.  So that probably rules out Fiery's Burn and Rise of the Phoenix (though RotP has a huge 25ft radius already).  But I could be mistaken there.  Pseudo-Pets do inherit other global strengths like damage, so maybe they get the arc/radius too.  

 

Dark seems to have the most that would be affected: Death Shroud, Dark Regen, Cloak of Fear, Oppressive Gloom, and Soul Transfer (yes, the rez will suck life force from up to 10 people in a 37.5ft radius of your recently deceased self!).  Rad and Bio each have three.

 

I love my Rad/Staff tank, personally.  Rad may not have as many AoEs as Dark but it's got Ground Zero.  And Ground Zero is absurd.  It's a 90 second proc nuke already, but on a Tanker its 15ft radius goes to 22.5ft, which is important because it hits thirty targets.  Granted, this total includes your allies, so being on a team of MMs might suck, but it still usually beats any other 16 target Tanker PBAoE, especially if you're leading the team into a nice meaty spawn and hit mostly enemies with it.  I put a Superior Avalanche Knockdown proc in it.  It's the "Everybody Take a Seat" power that I like to open with whenever it's up.