Shield MA vs SR SJ?

[Golden Azrael]

I've rolled a Shield MA.  Currently on L39.

 

I rolled and lvled a SR SJ to L50.

 

Which do you think is best?

 

Azrael.

 

 

[Shred Monkey]

Shield Charge is a huge bonus for Shield.   With Shield so easy to soft cap on a Tanker, I don't see much value in choosing SR over Shield.  Maybe it's better against incarnate enemies, but /MA covers that gap with the added source of +defense.   I'd go with Shield/MA on a tank.  On other ATs, I think it's more balanced.

[Frozen Burn]

16 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

I've rolled a Shield MA.  Currently on L39.

 

I rolled and lvled a SR SJ to L50.

 

Which do you think is best?

 

Azrael.

 

 

 

You leveled both - you tell us!  People are are going to have their preferences.  Many like Shield over SR, and many like SJ over MA.  I think both combos you have are great and can't go wrong either way.  I lvl'd a Shield/SJ Tank to 50 and love it!  I am also enjoying my MA/SR scrapper for that "old school" vibe - not a Tank, I know, but the combo is still fun!

 

....So having leveled both of those, which do you prefer?

 

[Onlyasandwich]

They're both fine combos, but shield/ma all the way.

 

More damage from your primary, similar defenses. I also vastly prefer MA to SJ on tanker. SJ is just too lacking in aoe for my taste. MA may only have DT, but DT is amazing.

[Golden Azrael]

2 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

They're both fine combos, but shield/ma all the way.

 

More damage from your primary, similar defenses. I also vastly prefer MA to SJ on tanker. SJ is just too lacking in aoe for my taste. MA may only have DT, but DT is amazing.

 

Dragon's Tail Kicks Az.

 

Having looked at my SR/SJ L50 tanker.  The damage on Street Justice seems 'light' compared to MA?

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

2 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

You leveled both - you tell us!  People are are going to have their preferences.  Many like Shield over SR, and many like SJ over MA.  I think both combos you have are great and can't go wrong either way.  I lvl'd a Shield/SJ Tank to 50 and love it!  I am also enjoying my MA/SR scrapper for that "old school" vibe - not a Tank, I know, but the combo is still fun!

 

....So having leveled both of those, which do you prefer?

 

 

I had more 'fun' playing SR/SJ!  But the damage seemed to be somewhat light.  A touch grindy.  I DO like the 'Justice' Build UP mechanic...(which can make MA seem somewhat dated...I'd like to see a dual blade mech' adopted for MA to really make it something special.  It feels 'old') and the two AoE powers.  (I@m currently planning to take Fighting Pool's AoE smack fu to get the equivalent there at L49...to get the speed boost...)  MA only has 'one' AoE.  But the one it does have?  Kicks Az.

 

SD/MA.  It does kick az.  I am enjoying it.  Hand cramp (no jokes, please...I didn't enjoy it that much) on the way up to L20.   It could do with an early AoE/Cone.  eg. Cobra into an Arc for some AoE capability.  To stack with Dragon's Tail later.  Shield Charge and DTail stack nicely together.  Dragon's Tail was like life giving oxygen when it came.  🙂   Very single target clicky for MA.  Feels like hard work compared to Bio/Spines for example.  Pushing that boulder up the hill.

 

Currently Capped+ on Melee.  That makes a difference.  Starting to eek in moAR S*L res'.  Thinking about a respec.  Taking out 'Kick' from MA and putting in the -Slow Res and and One with the Shield unstoppable (which will force me to drop Taunt.  Sacrilege.  I know...)

 

Azrael.

[Onlyasandwich]

12 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Having looked at my SR/SJ L50 tanker.  The damage on Street Justice seems 'light' compared to MA?

SJ actually parses out well in ideal scenarios like Pylon tests, but has a few practical shortcomings that in my experience hold it back in regular play.

 

Too much of the power budget is spent on Crushing Uppercut. The other attacks are pretty good when procced, but nothing out of the ordinary. CU is exceptional, but a bit conditional given the combo point system, and also has a rather long animation time.

 

Spinning Strike is okay, but basically inferior to Dragon's Tail in every way, and Sweeping Cross is still not a very effective aoe even with the Gauntlet buff.

 

MA is super efficient and has snappy animations for all the best powers. Eagle's Claw is usable, but very optional. It helps that Storm Kick also stacks strong extra defense for Tankers! The additional synergy is welcome especially on Shield, giving you a nice pad to overcome heavy defense debuff scenarios.

 

Edit: Please no combo update for MA! It's fun to have interactive mechanics, but also good to have sets that allow you to focus on the powers themselves rather than combos.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[Golden Azrael]

Thank you for the insight re: Storm Kick with Shield.

 

That's an interesting take on both sets.  And basically seems to mirror my own experiences of both.

 

I played both on live (didn't get far on SJ before the plug was pulled.  But I did play MA a few times on diff' alts.)  On HC?  I've done a MA/Regen scrapper to 50.  SD/Axe brute, SD/SS brute and SD/Elec Melee Tank.  The latter of which was great, fast fun and made me see the light for Shield on Tanks.  Ergo my trying with MA.

 

MA is still fun and satisfying after all these years!  It gets to the 'point!'  KERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR-POW!

 

Azrael.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Without_Pause]

19 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

CU is exceptional, but a bit conditional given the combo point system, and also has a rather long animation time.

2.17 sec cast time and 2.376 arcanatime is rather long? Shall we talk about Eagle's Claw being 2.53(2.772)? If you want to judge a power set based on the speed of its slowest attack, IIRC, StJ is only behind Kat for speed. MA gets an advantage with Brutes and Tanks due to Storm Kick. StJ AoEs are small so that's a bit of an issue for a Tank, but for Scrappers and certainly Stalkers, give me StJ everyday of the week and twice on Saturday. Few things more fun than using CU and going, "To the moon, Alice."

 

Note, I'm not talking about the speed of attacks which you actually take. (looks at Evis of Claws). I do concede outside of EC, MA is also silky smooth.

[Onlyasandwich]

21 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

rather long? Shall we talk about Eagle's Claw being 2.53

In the case of StJ, CU is required for good performance. Eagle's Claw is a silly power that can be effective, but you can be equally effective without it. MA doesn't hinge on it at all.

 

The speed of CU is a bit more relevant for StJ than other sets as so much of its performance is tied up in this power. 

 

I don't find CU to be "too slow" in experience - it is still a very good power. The visceral feeling of punching something to the moon is indeed the best reason to take StJ in my book! The animation is great. However, even for the best DPA attacks in the universe, having a slower animation is still at least a difference worth noting. MA's ideal attack chains are snappy whip whip kick kick with very little chance for corpse whiffing at all.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

36 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

In the case of StJ, CU is required for good performance. Eagle's Claw is a silly power that can be effective, but you can be equally effective without it. MA doesn't hinge on it at all.

 

The speed of CU is a bit more relevant for StJ than other sets as so much of its performance is tied up in this power. 

 

I don't find CU to be "too slow" in experience - it is still a very good power. The visceral feeling of punching something to the moon is indeed the best reason to take StJ in my book! The animation is great. However, even for the best DPA attacks in the universe, having a slower animation is still at least a difference worth noting. MA's ideal attack chains are snappy whip whip kick kick with very little chance for corpse whiffing at all.

 

 

I guess I'm just dumbfounded at the idea of an attack having a cast time of 2.17 is slow given where that lands for heavier hitting attacks. There are a lot of attacks which are 2.33 and higher and something like TF is required to make EM functional.

[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

I guess I'm just dumbfounded at the idea of an attack having a cast time of 2.17 is slow given where that lands for heavier hitting attacks. There are a lot of attacks which are 2.33 and higher and something like TF is required to make EM functional.

I am making direct comparison to MA in this case, rather than to attack sets as a whole.

 

To be fair, this may be better positioned as a strength of MA than any failing of StJ. One exceptional element of MA is that its best rotations involve really snappy powers across the board.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[StriderIV]

4 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

SJ actually parses out well in ideal scenarios like Pylon tests, but has a few practical shortcomings that in my experience hold it back in regular play.

 

Too much of the power budget is spent on Crushing Uppercut. The other attacks are pretty good when procced, but nothing out of the ordinary. CU is exceptional, but a bit conditional given the combo point system, and also has a rather long animation time.

 

Spinning Strike is okay, but basically inferior to Dragon's Tail in every way, and Sweeping Cross is still not a very effective aoe even with the Gauntlet buff.

 

MA is super efficient and has snappy animations for all the best powers. Eagle's Claw is usable, but very optional. It helps that Storm Kick also stacks strong extra defense for Tankers! The additional synergy is welcome especially on Shield, giving you a nice pad to overcome heavy defense debuff scenarios.

 

Edit: Please no combo update for MA! It's fun to have interactive mechanics, but also good to have sets that allow you to focus on the powers themselves rather than combos.

Only! What are some ideal combos you’d have for MA? I know Werner did some crazy things with a Shield/MA Tanker. @Sovera likes Fire/MA. A MA/Elec brute would seem promising. Any others you like?

Edited April 21, 2022 by StriderIV

[Mezmera]

I love my Shield tank!  She has the defenses of SR along with tons of extra resists, lots of extra hp and then yeah Shield Charge is a blast and a boon to your aoe potential.  What SR really has on Shield is the ease of building that defense and the DDR but Shield's DDR isn't too shabby once you can double stack the mez click and the opportunity offered for builds in IOs makes Shield shine.  

 

I do like Street Justice quite a bit. I see it as a more hip mix of Super Strength and MA.  I don't care much for the gimmick of Rage and MA's gimmick of +def is kind of wasted on well built defense based characters.  StJ to me seems much more fluid and has better damage with the combo mechanic.  Plus CU is quite neat in that you can slot all kinds of Hold and Stun procs into it.  

[Onlyasandwich]

6 hours ago, StriderIV said:

ideal combos you’d have for MA?

MA goes really well with anything, really.

 

The only real point of special synergy to consider would be the +def from Storm Kick, which is quite strong. Even this is pretty universally helpful. Defense based sets like Shield appreciate the extra pad for overcoming debuffs, or edge in incarnate content, while resist based sets will find it easier to ride softcap without bending over backwards.

 

[PLVRIZR]

15 hours ago, Mezmera said:

I don't care much for the gimmick of Rage and MA's gimmick of +def is kind of wasted on well built defense based characters. 

 

Which is why @Sovera's Fire/MA "Brunker" tank is so effective.  I agree that paired with Shield, the MA benefits are largely wasted.

[Golden Azrael]

Grant Cover?  Necessary to take?  Yes or no?

 

Azrael.

[Onlyasandwich]

9 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Grant Cover?  Necessary to take?  Yes or no?

 

Azrael.

Yes. You want it for ddr and slow resist.

[Mezmera]

10 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Yes. You want it for ddr and slow resist.

 

Plus it's like 15% defense bonus for everyone else but you.  As the tank its your job to protect others, this power goes a good way in helping you do that.

[Golden Azrael]

1 hour ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Yes. You want it for ddr and slow resist.

 

*nods.  Noted.  I'll have to respec to fit it in.  Losing the MA Tier 1 kick for it.

 

As an aside.  Additionally...

 

If I want 'One with the Shield?'  I'll have to lose Taunt.

 

Azrael.

[Onlyasandwich]

6 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

If I want 'One with the Shield?'  I'll have to lose Taunt.

OwtS is a matter of taste, really. I typically take it as a sometimes useful power that mules out one of the +def iOS. It's a very flexible mule - even takes the PM absorb proc.

 

If you share your build I'd be happy to provide other insight. Even on a defense set, I would consider Storm Kick a strong addition to a Tanker's arsenal. If you're referring to Thunder Kick, that is of course not skippable.

[Mezmera]

Shield Charge, the best AoE attack in your secondary and 2-3 more attacks will suit an attack chain very well.  I take One With the Shield even though I hardly use it.  It is good for sets like @Onlyasandwich says and it also gives you more oomph in your ability to tank in emergencies, it's much better to have on the back burner than another moderate damage attack you might use.   That should free something up for your taunt.  

Edited April 22, 2022 by Mezmera

[Golden Azrael]

28 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

OwtS is a matter of taste, really. I typically take it as a sometimes useful power that mules out one of the +def iOS. It's a very flexible mule - even takes the PM absorb proc.

 

If you share your build I'd be happy to provide other insight. Even on a defense set, I would consider Storm Kick a strong addition to a Tanker's arsenal. If you're referring to Thunder Kick, that is of course not skippable.

 

You're correct.  Thunder Kick is not skippable.  Wishful thinking...

 

Storm Kick.  Has the defence buff like the one from Katana.  Must hardwire that into my attack chain.  Pop a single luck plus Storm Kick and you're golden.

 

Hmm.

 

I've been building as I go along.  Only Purples to fit when I hit L50.  eg. Crippling Az Kick, Dragon's Tail, Storm Kick and Eagles Claw.  (Cobra Strike and  the attack after have the Tanker's AT in them.)

 

I'd have to take out a MA attack for Grant Cover.  Or lose Taunt for the 'One with the Shield.'   

 

Ham.  Lots of Ham.  Do I need the Broccoli?

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

18 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Shield Charge, the best AoE attack in your secondary and 2-3 more attacks will suit an attack chain very well.  I take One With the Shield even though I hardly use it.  It is good for sets like @Onlyasandwich says and it also gives you more oomph in your ability to tank in emergencies, it's much better to have on the back burner than another moderate damage attack you might use.   That should free something up for your taunt.  

 

Those Unstoppables are useful from time to time as they can in 'hot' situations take you over the top.  I can imagine being in amongst some Longbow and finding OWTShield and Grant Cover useful...

 

Azrael.

[Onlyasandwich]

1 minute ago, Golden Azrael said:

MA attack

What ma attacks do you have?