You are about to do something hard and can only pick one defender...

[Voltak]

2 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

 

That's just it.   Maintaining 24-7 defenses in the 80%'s takes a lot of effort (or a lot of team discipline or both) especially if getting bombarded by defense debuffs and a whole mess of other debuffs.  But yes if you can keep the numbers needed then yes start applying those debuffs.

 

AEON relentless is not as hard as the challenges in AE, especially some tiers and over of those 801s and some other AE challenges. 

Even in AEON, to keep a team alive and suffer either no deaths, or the least deaths as possible, Elec Affinity and Nature Affinity have no equals.  

The OP said hard content , let's talk about the very upper echelons of hard content,  you are going to get debuffs rained down upon your team. 

Whatever high defenses you think you have, you will lost all or a great deal of it.  ( This is why @Linea made a very very strong point that a PB Force Field , especially with Clarion Radial T4)  is the exception to the average defense buffs and is very good).   That hard cap defense limit provides a good buffer. 
But even then... that still requires additional support to keep team alive and that is directly what is needed from sets like Elec Affinity and Nature. 

Also...
Your resistances will also lower. 

You cannot replace, and you cannot give a higher priority to anything other than Elec Affinity or Nature. 

Trick Arrow players will also die without support.   You are going to get killed when the debuffs and damage start pouring in.  

Elec Affinity and Nature will keep you going AS YOU CLIMB THE LADDER OF DIFFICULT CHALLENGES  in the game. 

 

[Mezmera]

20 minutes ago, Voltak said:

AEON relentless is not as hard as the challenges in AE, especially some tiers and over of those 801s and some other AE challenges. 

 

Well I've seen the TA excel the most on a Relentless Aeon in comparison to seeing a few Nature's on my team and an Elec.  It's quite a good bar for measuring so if it outperforms on Aeon I'd assume it translates just as well to those made up engagements with packs of AV ambushes since you can maximize your invisibility to choose how and when you want to engage.  

 

@Linea's stuff is a decent little test for your character but after a certain point it's just masochism and it's no bar that should be used to judge things by.  My Mind dom can just walk through most of those invisibly Mass Confusing mob after mob if I so like so long as I know to be wary of the ambushes there's no real threat to her.  I can do those on my dom much easier than any tank can, does that make her better than a tank...?  Well yes actually I'd take my dom over most tanks but that's besides the point 

 

The dev team did a great job on Relentless Aeon with optimizing the difficulty just right for all comers.  If there's a bar I'd use it would be these hard tested Relentless difficulty setting Task Forces which I believe one might be coming that will be right up your alley.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Mezmera

[Hjarki]

I don't know that talking about specific content as 'difficult' is a particularly good way to approach the question.

 

I think it's better to break it down according to the limits on game mechanics.

 

Durability tends to fall into three rough categories:

• Health/Regen. This is normally the weakest of the categories in terms of scaling because it's purely additive. It very rapidly goes from "I'm impervious to all harm!" to paste-on-the-floor for this reason.
• Defense. This is by far the easiest to build for due to the existence of a relatively low 'soft cap' and the plethora of abilities that boost it. However, when you're talking about extreme difficulty you run afoul of the incredibly high 'hard cap' that's virtually impossible to reach without massive external buffs. Since it's matched up against some of the most common debuffs (-defense) and buffs (+hit), it's also the most common way we see of boosting the difficulty of content. So any build that relies on Defense is normally going to falter in more difficult content.
• Resist. At low levels, resist isn't very effective because it's awfully hard to reach the hard cap without a lot of slotting and only two AT (Tanker, Brute) have a hard cap that's comparable to what defense can deliver. Resist-based builds also have to worry quite a bit about status effects and debuffs since even armor sets don't do a particularly good job of reducing those. However, resists can't easily be debuffed or overcome with +damage, making them the most reliable form of mitigation as you ramp up the difficulty.

You've also got the debuff vs. buff issue.

 

Any debuff that requires a hit roll will be less reliable than a buff. Debuffs which can be scaled down by level shifts need to be accounted for. And, of course, debuffs that are perfectly reasonable against normal enemies often fail against AV/GM due to the AV/GM resists. You also have to recognize that defensive debuffs require striking first against all potential targets while buffs are simply there against all those targets. So while stacking 27 different buffs on a player is easy, stacking more than one debuff is often tough because the first debuff aggros everything.

 

So let's look at this in the context of Trick Arrow:

• Entangling Arrow. This is primarily just a single target -resist debuff. It's nice enough, but it won't help you survive.
• Flash Arrow. This is your best mitigation debuff for normal play. Against AV/GM, the -hit component will be largely meaningless (about equal to Weave) due to AV/GM resists. Against non-AV/GM enemies, it will still be a substantial debuff but not quite as much effective defense as you'd get from a 'bubbler'. However, it is an auto-hit power and can be used to completely bypass spawns.
• Glue Arrow. This is mostly useless against any form of content and would just be heavily resisted in difficult content.
• Ice Arrow. This is hyper-specialized in its applicability, mostly against AV/GM with fairly niche abilities to shut them down. However, it's not going to be very helpful most of the time.
• Poison Gas Arrow. This will normally be better than +resist buffs in terms of overall damage mitigation unless you're fighting enemies with extreme amounts of +damage. It's auto-hit and half of it bypasses resistance. It also helps your Tanker a lot more than +resist buffs do since it stacks on top of them - a Tanker with standard 90% S/L and PGA can almost ignore Defense entirely (for the purposes of raw damage).
• Acid/Disruption/Oil Slick Arrow. These are all offensive amplification effects, so not terribly relevant.
• EMP Arrow. This is the same basic effect as Faraday Cage, albeit with longer recharge/duration. So it's less effective if you're rapidly moving from spawn-to-spawn but generally more effective if you're engaged in long static fights. The offensive portion of EMP Arrow can't be made perma- and requires a hit roll, but it almost completely obliterates the capacity of any spawn - even those in very difficult content - to fight back.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Hjarki

[Voltak]

23 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Well I've seen the TA excel the most on a Relentless Aeon in comparison to seeing a few Nature's on my team and an Elec.  It's quite a good bar for measuring so if it outperforms on Aeon I'd assume it translates just as well to those made up engagements with packs of AV ambushes since you can maximize your invisibility to choose how and when you want to engage.  

 

@Linea's stuff is a decent little test for your character but after a certain point it's just masochism and it's no bar that should be used to judge things by.  My Mind dom can just walk through most of those invisibly Mass Confusing mob after mob if I so like so long as I know to be wary of the ambushes there's no real threat to her.  I can do those on my dom much easier than any tank can, does that make her better than a tank...?  Well yes actually I'd take m dom over most tanks but that's besides the point 

 

The dev team did a great job on Relentless Aeon with optimizing the difficulty just right for all comers.  If there's a bar I'd use it would be these hard tested Relentless difficulty setting Task Forces which I believe one might be coming that will be right up your alley.

It does not outperform ELec Affinity nor Nature

1. Trick Arrow does not do nor can it provide what ELec Affinity does nor Nature. 

2. Elec Affinity and Nature is directly involved with buffs which ensure or enormously contribute to keeping team alive when facing dmg and debuffs.  Nature affinity also has more debuffs than Elec Affinity. 

3. 801s are vastly more difficult at certain tiers and above and so are other AE challenges, to include the ones I have made.  
They are made for players who enjoy higher challenges than provided in the game by the Devs.  
It is certainly a bar, especially for players who enjoy greater challenges than regular game content.   

*** You ready to be recorded while doing 801s 7 and above solo with your Mind dom?  ***  
 Prove it or it did not happen nor will it happen. 

Again the higher the tier of difficulty, the more buffs/absorbs/heals/resistances and such come to take a higher priority. 

You will not debuff nor dmg anything if you are dead. 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Voltak

[Doomguide2005]

@Mezmera

Its all good.  Two sets I'm always looking to add into hypothetical teams are TA and Darkness Affinity.  And purely as a thought exercise thinking about what various teams compositions would do well and why.   Ill/TA is one pairing that really stands out to me for cracking open high perception aggro risk situations.  They can get close enough to things like Snipers to use Flash Arrow not for the To Hit debuff but to debuff perception.  Now the whole team can close distance.  Meanwhile Flash Arrow continues to shut down perception on multiple nearby mobs.  

[Doomguide2005]

@Hjarkiyou missed -endurance and endurance drain 😜.   Now you won't die if your end bar is flatlined in and of itself, but it's going to get real hard to take out your foes.  Definitely something one needs to mitigate.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

So let's look at this in the context of Trick Arrow:

• Entangling Arrow. This is primarily just a single target -resist debuff. It's nice enough, but it won't help you survive.
• Flash Arrow. This is your best mitigation debuff for normal play. Against AV/GM, the -hit component will be largely meaningless (about equal to Weave) due to AV/GM resists. Against non-AV/GM enemies, it will still be a substantial debuff but not quite as much effective defense as you'd get from a 'bubbler'. However, it is an auto-hit power and can be used to completely bypass spawns.
• Glue Arrow. This is mostly useless against any form of content and would just be heavily resisted in difficult content.
• Ice Arrow. This is hyper-specialized in its applicability, mostly against AV/GM with fairly niche abilities to shut them down. However, it's not going to be very helpful most of the time.
• Poison Gas Arrow. This will normally be better than +resist buffs in terms of overall damage mitigation unless you're fighting enemies with extreme amounts of +damage. It's auto-hit and half of it bypasses resistance. It also helps your Tanker a lot more than +resist buffs do since it stacks on top of them - a Tanker with standard 90% S/L and PGA can almost ignore Defense entirely (for the purposes of raw damage).
• Acid/Disruption/Oil Slick Arrow. These are all offensive amplification effects, so not terribly relevant.
• EMP Arrow. This is the same basic effect as Faraday Cage, albeit with longer recharge/duration. So it's less effective if you're rapidly moving from spawn-to-spawn but generally more effective if you're engaged in long static fights. The offensive portion of EMP Arrow can't be made perma- and requires a hit roll, but it almost completely obliterates the capacity of any spawn - even those in very difficult content - to fight back.

 

• Entangling Arrow I find to be the most skippable of all the powers.  
• Flash Arrow is auto hit and against +4 AV/GM's the -tohitt is still real good since half of it is unresistable.  You get 70% of the 1st value and all of the 2nd so 13% and lets say 9%, that's -22% tohitt before any powerboosting.  That's quite a nice defense shield.  
• Glue Arrow is a nice situational power to keep critters in place and at bay.  
• Ice Arrow is stupid good.  Single best debuff you get which is great on AV fights.  It also procs real well so load it up with 5 damage procs and a 50+5 accuracy IO.  It is now your best ST attack which you will also want to be using for that debuff.  
• Poison Arrow is -50% damage which half is unresisted.   So like -40% damage.  That's quite the resistance shield.  
• Acid Arrow is crazy good and magnifies everything in TA.  
• Disruption Arrow is -40% resistance...
• Oil Slick does great dot and also by the way can house a few -resistance procs.  Sure the proc rate is low since it's a quasi rain but it's not unlike all the other rains that house those procs.  Place this power at your feet and watch everything melt around you since they can't run away because they are glued.  
• EMP Arrow I slot for as much recharge that I can.  Not sure where you're getting that it isn't perma since I could maintain 3 of those at a time if the first applications didn't disappear for me.  Fantabulous t9 power. 

There's only so much defense and resistance you can net out shielding characters.  The debuffs in TA net you these same type of feel as these shields all without the encumbrance of a cap.   

Edited July 5, 2022 by Mezmera

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

 

• Entangling Arrow I find to be the most skippable of all the powers.  
• Flash Arrow is auto hit and against +4 AV/GM's the -tohitt is still real good since half of it is unresistable.  You get 70% of the 1st value and all of the 2nd so 13% and lets say 9%, that's -22% tohitt before any powerboosting.  That's quite a nice defense shield.  
• Glue Arrow is a nice situational power to keep critters in place and at bay.  
• Ice Arrow is stupid good.  Single best debuff you get which is great on AV fights.  It also procs real well so load it up with 5 damage procs and a 50+5 accuracy IO.  It is now your best ST attack which you will also want to be using for that debuff.  
• Poison Arrow is -50% damage which half is unresisted.   So like -40% damage.  That's quite the resistance shield.  
• Acid Arrow is crazy good and magnifies everything in TA.  
• Disruption Arrow is -40% resistance...
• Oil Slick does great dot and also by the way can house a few -resistance procs.  Sure the proc rate is low since it's a quasi rain but it's not unlike all the other rains that house those procs.  Place this power at your feet and watch everything melt around you since they can't run away because they are glued.  
• EMP Arrow I slot for as much recharge that I can.  Not sure where you're getting that it isn't perma since I could maintain 3 of those at a time if the first applications didn't disappear for me.  Fantabulous t9 power. 

There's only so much defense and resistance you can net out shielding characters.  The debuffs in TA net you these same type of feel as these shields all without the encumbrance of a cap.   

There is not so much resistance and defense buff that you can net out in extreme challenges because debuffs are coming.   Any thing over the cap will be used as a buffer to face the debuffs coming at you. 

Then you have damage heading your way, and IT WILL come your way.  That's when the buffs and burst healing and even stronger still -- THE ABSORBS, that's when those will leave the other stuff down below in lower tiers. 

Again, debuffing is great and it is applauded and super important.   But as greater degrees of difficulty come by, Elec Affinity and Nature will inevitable show why they are top tier to keep any team alive and enable them to keep debuffing or dishing out dmg. 

 

[Apparition]

9 minutes ago, Voltak said:

There is not so much resistance and defense buff that you can net out in extreme challenges because debuffs are coming.   Any thing over the cap will be used as a buffer to face the debuffs coming at you. 

Then you have damage heading your way, and IT WILL come your way.  That's when the buffs and burst healing and even stronger still -- THE ABSORBS, that's when those will leave the other stuff down below in lower tiers. 

Again, debuffing is great and it is applauded and super important.   But as greater degrees of difficulty come by, Elec Affinity and Nature will inevitable show why they are top tier to keep any team alive and enable them to keep debuffing or dishing out dmg. 

 

 

Yeah.  I think you and Mezmera are talking about different levels of difficulty.  The Vanguard heroes fight in Relentless ASF is difficult, no doubt about it.  But there are missions in AE that put that fight to shame.  Any team that doesn’t have an Electrical Affinity, Nature, or Thermal support character will be obliterated.  Trick Arrow character on the team or otherwise.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Apparition

[Voltak]

3 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

Yeah.  I think you and Mezmera are talking about different levels of difficulty.  The Vanguard heroes fight in Relentless ASF is difficult, no doubt about it.  But there are missions in AE that put that fight to shame.  Any team that doesn’t have an Electrical Affinity, Nature, or Thermal support character will be obliterated.  Trick Arrow character on the team or otherwise.

 
That is the bottom line.  

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

EMP Arrow I slot for as much recharge that I can.  Not sure where you're getting that it isn't perma since I could maintain 3 of those at a time if the first applications didn't disappear for me.  Fantabulous t9 power. 

EMP Arrow has a 300s recharge. The bubble portion has a 240s duration and is easily perma-able (presuming you don't move much). The debuff portions are 45s long and would require +567% recharge to perma (which isn't possible).

[Mezmera]

7 minutes ago, Voltak said:

There is not so much resistance and defense buff that you can net out in extreme challenges because debuffs are coming.   Any thing over the cap will be used as a buffer to face the debuffs coming at you. 

 

That's quite fine.  TA offers you a net positive of having both a Cold buffer with defense shields (Flash Arrow) and a much better Sonic buffer with resistance shields (Poison Arrow + EMP Arrow).  All auto hit so you get to be two buffers in one so long as you're skilled enough to stay proactive.  The difference is there's a cap for those buffer classes which TA isn't affected by that.  

Then you have damage heading your way, and IT WILL come your way.  That's when the buffs and burst healing and even stronger still -- THE ABSORBS, that's when those will leave the other stuff down below in lower tiers. 

 

Yes the absorb shield/regen/healing in Nature is quite nice and second to none.  It's why having one on the team gets the team tanky.  But if the targets can't already hit you and their damage is minimized a great deal when it does I'd rather have all else that TA brings to kill things much faster.  

Again, debuffing is great and it is applauded and super important.   But as greater degrees of difficulty come by, Elec Affinity and Nature will inevitable show why they are top tier to keep any team alive and enable them to keep debuffing or dishing out dmg. 

 

Those two sets are easy to play and make the team real strong just by pushing buttons, they are quite good yes but nothing as transformative as a TA can allow the team to be if you know how to use it.  I'd take a top flight skilled player on a TA any day over whatever else.  

 

Again the heal/absorb shield I'd be jealous of if TA wasn't everything else that it is.  

 

 

[Mezmera]

5 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

The debuff portions are 45s long and would require +567% recharge to perma (which isn't possible).

 

Yes the debuffs and travel are why I slot for the recharge. 

 

I get the debuff for say 45s, down for 45s then back with more ridiculous aoe debuffing.   You get 15% resist all, 30% end resist and a mez shield for whenever you like and it also comes with the dual feature of -1000 regen for 15s and then 500% for another 30s plus all the other debuffs I won't be bothered to log onto to list.  You're basically getting an aoe Benumb along with some real nice team buffing all packed into one power.  

[Voltak]

35 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Poison Gas arrow will not net you more. 
EBs +4 and above , especially with purple patch will resist a good chunk. 

That's one issue. 

Second issue, Poison Gas Arrow only affects what it hits or is in the AOE range.  Everything else is free to hit you with no debuffs. 

Shields and Absorbs don't care who's in the AoE or out of the area.  They cover you regardless. 

You doing a lot of "theories"  
You stating what you imagine will work out. 

In practice, as experience proves, that's not going to work if you imagine you going to debuff every enemy every time.  

EMP has a LOOONG recharge.  

In comparison to absorbs, buffs, heals, Faraday Cage (Mex protection and resists ) is available always for the team. 

Enemies will hit you. 

As difficulty level goes up, they will hit you, Trick Arrow on the team or not, they will hit you, they will debuff you and dmg will be high. 

AEON SF or even greater and harder challenges , enemies going to hit you hard.  
Nothing will replace those buffers , healers and providers of absorb. 

They are more important and critical to keeping the team alive.  
Debuffers, are good, important, but when facing more challenges, they cannot replace those last line of defense that will keep you alive for the team to debuff or dmg. 

A trick arrow is not ever going to carry the mantle to keep the team alive in very difficult challenges. 

Want to prove it?  It's easy to prove.  

I speak from experience.   I been with debuffers and buffers in extreme challenges. THere's no question that the buffers/healers/providers of absorb are vastly more important to keep team alive than the debuffers.  Debuffers will not prevent the team from getting wrecked when difficulty goes up. That's what the Elec affinity , Nature and thermal will do. 


Easy way to prove this, like the last time we had  a debate in which you claimed something.  

WE can always log in and settle the issue.  I am confident about how this is going to end up. 

Already been there done that, got the t-shirt. 

AE 801 was being done, no direct support in team.  Debuffers and dmg in team and tanks.  

Dead , players dead on the regular... One of the players leaves the team... spot opens up. 

I bring my Elec Affinity, everything changes.   I have it on video and I posted here in the forums.   

Debuffs alone will never ever do nor fulfill what is needed when the degree of difficulty goes up very high. 

You going to get wrecked over and over. 

Not only in that video was it proven but it's been proven over and over the more we do extreme challenges. 

You can continue with your theories all you want.   But when it comes down to testing and seeing if you can prove what YOU talk, I know exactly how it's going to end.  The same way it's ended in the past.  

Edited July 5, 2022 by Voltak

[Mezmera]

50% 

15 minutes ago, Voltak said:

Poison Gas arrow will not net you more. 
EBs +4 and above , especially with purple patch will resist a good chunk. 

 

50% -damage half of it unresistable and then the other half nets you abouts 17% with those +4's and our purple patches.  So -42% damage... 

That's one issue. 

Second issue, Poison Gas Arrow only affects what it hits or is in the AOE range.  Everything else is free to hit you with no debuffs. 

 

Yes that's why you lead in out of invisibility with Flash Arrow so you net yourself some real nice defense that way you preemptively make sure nothing is "free" to hit you.  The accuracy modifier on Poison Arrow is 2.25, you won't be missing very much.  

Shields and Absorbs don't care who's in the AoE or out of the area.  They cover you regardless. 

 

They cover you to 59% defense and 75% resistance (for squishies).  All else is a waste.  There's no waste on TA.  Be proactive with those aoe debuffs they have great range and recharge.  Yes if you want to take on the whole map you better ready the auto loader but any character runs a risk of defeat that way.  

You doing a lot of "theories"  
You stating what you imagine will work out. 

In practice, as experience proves, that's not going to work if you imagine you going to debuff every enemy every time.  

 

My TA does quite well solo on those itf towers.  And yes you can debuff with real high frequency Flash Arrow and Poison Arrow because they recharge super fast and the debuff lasts a long time so you're quite well covered for how many ever targets that are in the vicinity. 

EMP has a LOOONG recharge.  

 

Mine recharges real well.  I'll always have the buff ability for when its needed for the team and the debuffing I get for 45s down for 45s and back again.  This Arrow is set up to travel real well for me.

In comparison to absorbs, buffs, heals, Faraday Cage (Mex protection and resists ) is available always for the team. 

Enemies will hit you. 

As difficulty level goes up, they will hit you, Trick Arrow on the team or not, they will hit you, they will debuff you and dmg will be high. 

AEON SF or even greater and harder challenges , enemies going to hit you hard.  
Nothing will replace those buffers , healers and providers of absorb. 

 

Yeah Aeon I'd take lots of support characters thanks to a return of importance to support characters.  I'd take a Nature and Elec for sure.  First though I'm looking for a good TA player.  The -dmg and -tohitt are just the same as having shields but better since they don't have a cap they are beholden to.  

They are more important and critical to keeping the team alive.  
Debuffers, are good, important, but when facing more challenges, they cannot replace those last line of defense that will keep you alive for the team to debuff or dmg. 

A trick arrow is not ever going to carry the mantle to keep the team alive in very difficult challenges. 

 

If I had to take one character into that special 8 Vanguard fight it would be the TA.  

Want to prove it?  It's easy to prove.  

I speak from experience.   I been with debuffers and buffers in extreme challenges. THere's no question that the buffers/healers/providers of absorb are vastly more important to keep team alive than the debuffers.  Debuffers will not prevent the team from getting wrecked when difficulty goes up. That's what the Elec affinity , Nature and thermal will do. 


Easy way to prove this, like the last time we had  a debate in which you claimed something.  

WE can always log in and settle the issue.  I am confident about how this is going to end up. 

Already been there done that, got the t-shirt. 

AE 801 was being done, no direct support in team.  Debuffers and dmg in team and tanks.  

Dead , players dead on the regular... One of the players leaves the team... spot opens up. 

I bring my Elec Affinity, everything changes.   I have it on video and I posted here in the forums.   

Debuffs alone will never ever do nor fulfill what is needed when the degree of difficulty goes up very high. 

You going to get wrecked over and over. 

Not only in that video was it proven but it's been proven over and over the more we do extreme challenges. 

You can continue with your theories all you want.   But when it comes down to testing and seeing if you can prove what YOU talk, I know exactly how it's going to end.  The same way it's ended in the past.  

The same way it ended in the past?  You telling me I cant use one of my main powers in Mass Confusion however I seem fit and then bickering with me about it once you realized what I could accomplish with confusing one mob to kill itself while I engage another.  

 

Lets not go off in this tangent again thanks.  

 

[Voltak]

30 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

50% 

 

Mez, 

As the difficulty challenge gets steeper and steeper, you will be able to do the mission without the Trick Arrow.  You will NOT be able to complete objective and keep the team alive without characters like Nature oR Elec Affinity or thermals in combination with the others stated before.   Without those you are going to get wrecked.  

That right there is a fact.  So, trick arrow is below in importance and critical need.   You can dispose of Trick Arrow it can be left out. 
That's experience talking. 
You will not ever debuff every enemy all the time, but you can buff your own team mates, heal them, provide absorbs, and so on

Last but not least, you went off about how your Dominator was soooo tanky and could face tank Carnies.  You said he could tank better than my Dark dominator.  You even critiqued my dominator for trying to stealth and confuse from stealth. 

What happened in the test when you did it  was that 

1. You ended doing what you critiqued. 
2. I ended up face tanking everything in the map. 
3. I never ran to the hills and never took cover behind a rock. 
4. I also used confused or possess
5. I was there in front of the mobs doing the tanking that you said I could not do and which you said you could do. 
6. I did all that without using Lores, which you right away resorted to.  

Let's end this 

If you think Trick Arrow is more important than Elec Affinity or Nature is extremely hard content, let's put it to the test again. 

Tell me when you can log in. Bring your Trick Arrow, I will bring my Elec Affinity.  
We will have a team do an 801, at lvl 7 or above. 
Your turn will be only the trick arrow for support. 

My team will have the Elec Affinity.  

No other AT in the team that can provide heals or buffs besides that of Incarnates.  

Let's see what team last longer and has fewer deaths. 

Same team so the variables don't change except for the support type. 

I know right away how this is going to end.  

Want to bet ?


 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Voltak

[GM Impervium]

Okay folks, 2 things:

1: Keep it friendly... things were starting to veer towards hostile, so I hid some posts.

 

2: Do NOT mention things that are still in Closed Beta. Talking about the Aeon SF is fine. The other thing? No. Not yet.

[Hjarki]

5 hours ago, Voltak said:

Poison Gas arrow will not net you more.  

 

My notes:

• AV/GM resists do not affect PGA.
• The Purple Patch cuts both ways. You're talking about content with significant enemy debuffs, all of which are amplified in the same fashion our debuffs are diminished. So +resist has no inherent advantage over -damage due to the purple patch.
• PGA is auto-hit

In my personal opinion, churning through large groups is a lot easier with fire-and-forget buffs and short recharge powers. However, there's a reason people use sets like Radiation or Trick Arrow when they're trying to beat the absolute toughest opponents in the game - the impact of those debuffs on a single hard target is far greater than the impact of the buffs on the team.

[Voltak]

45 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

 

My notes:

• AV/GM resists do not affect PGA.
• The Purple Patch cuts both ways. You're talking about content with significant enemy debuffs, all of which are amplified in the same fashion our debuffs are diminished. So +resist has no inherent advantage over -damage due to the purple patch.
• PGA is auto-hit

In my personal opinion, churning through large groups is a lot easier with fire-and-forget buffs and short recharge powers. However, there's a reason people use sets like Radiation or Trick Arrow when they're trying to beat the absolute toughest opponents in the game - the impact of those debuffs on a single hard target is far greater than the impact of the buffs on the team.

Purple patch is a factor, regardless.  

But that's not the issue at hand. 

If you read my post before, I praised Trick Arrow and I mentioned the golden power of Trick Arrow that no other sets have.  I also said that it's the king of debuffs for that reason too. 

However, a much bigger priority when dealing with very difficult content is the issue of surviving, players who are dead will do no debuff and no damage. 

As difficulty is raised, the more likely it is that you will die if all you have is debuffs.  

Debuffs therefore are trumped by buffs, heals, and absorbs as you climb up the ladder of difficulty.  

There is stuff that you can do with only debuffs, and there are more difficult things that you cannot do with debuffs alone.  

Sufficient damage can overcome everything only as long as you can live to dish it out. 

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

 

My notes:

• AV/GM resists do not affect PGA.
• The Purple Patch cuts both ways. You're talking about content with significant enemy debuffs, all of which are amplified in the same fashion our debuffs are diminished. So +resist has no inherent advantage over -damage due to the purple patch.
• PGA is auto-hit

In my personal opinion, churning through large groups is a lot easier with fire-and-forget buffs and short recharge powers. However, there's a reason people use sets like Radiation or Trick Arrow when they're trying to beat the absolute toughest opponents in the game - the impact of those debuffs on a single hard target is far greater than the impact of the buffs on the team.

Yes, but the primary point of the buffs isn't to defeat the foe it's prevent defeat of the team so the debuffs have the time to work.

 

And Ninja'd again by @Voltak

[Marshal_General]

12 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

Okay folks, 2 things:

1: Keep it friendly... things were starting to veer towards hostile, so I hid some posts.

 

2: Do NOT mention things that are still in Closed Beta. Talking about the Aeon SF is fine. The other thing? No. Not yet.

How are we to sleep at night knowing that there is an "other thing"?

 

It it cake? Tell me there is soon to be Cake Mastery or even better, Cake Assault!

Edited July 6, 2022 by Marshal_General

[Hjarki]

8 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

How are we to sleep at night knowing that there is an "other thing"?

 

It it cake? Tell me there is soon to be Cake Mastery or even better, Cake Assault!

Pie Assault would work better with my clown concept character.

[starro]

9 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

How are we to sleep at night knowing that there is an "other thing"?

 

It it cake? Tell me there is soon to be Cake Mastery or even better, Cake Assault!

The cake is a lie.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, starro said:

The cake is a lie.

Is that a pacify (placate) power?

[Ankhammon]

On 7/5/2022 at 3:18 AM, Mezmera said:

 

Yeah I'm a bit surprised too but I take it that most haven't played it much since it is a real busy set.  I was tanking the special Vanguard fight on Aeon with a TA/Dual Pistols on the team,  the fight felt much easier than any other time where I didn't have a TA on the team.  Went ahead and made one the next day and I am not disappointed. 

 

The variety of debuffs available in the set is outstanding there's all kinds of tricks in TA's sleeves plus EMP Arrow is such a great power along with being a mez shield.  I had to learn binds to get the most out of it but once I set that up it's such a strong fun character to play and making me learn binds only served to make other characters I play easier.  

 

The only thing I'd take would be the TA/DP; all that -dmg, -tohitt, -resistance, -regen and Acid Arrow with all of those unique debuffs.  

Great call!

I been singing the praises of chem rounds since before live went bye bye. I was using it with a Naff at the time to great effect.

 

My first thought for TA was to dbl down on -tohit with Dark Blast. Adding in a couple hundred -tohit percent would prolly help a bit against the purple patch.

 

 

And to whomever said throw in acid arrow to boost flash arrow, bravo! I never even looked for that, but I see it now.

Gonna need to slightly rearrange my fire order against big game.