AE Vet Levels -or- Empyrean to Reward Merits

[Marbing]

12 minutes ago, Troo said:

Who's telling you how to play?

The inner circle, we have already established this…

[Bionic_Flea]

My understanding was that the reward merits in I-trials was in compensation for the loss of conversion.  I doubt you are gonna get one without the other.

[ShardWarrior]

21 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

What gets run a lot other than farms: The weekly, the TFs needed for TFC accolade, ITF, Tin-pex, Market Crash, DFB, RSF/MLTF, Hammy and Ship Raids.  Am I missing any of the usual suspects?  Why are these things run more often than all the other TFs and story arcs?  I'm not saying that other things are never done, just that these are done WAY more. 

 

This already happens though and then people go right back to farming.  This will continue to happen even after these changes.  The venue may change, but the behavior will be the same.

[Marbing]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

The venue may change,

Which is the point, I assume. So yay?

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Marbing said:

Which is the point, I assume. So yay?

 

You are not understanding.  Whether farmers are in AE or not, they still are not running "normal/right" content with other people.  You are replacing "Sitter LF AE farm" with "Sitter LF PI farm".  The results are exactly the same. 

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

This already happens though and then people go right back to farming.  This will continue to happen even after these changes.  The venue may change, but the behavior will be the same.

The whole “nothing is really changing so this change must be argued against day and night” argument isn’t very convincing. You are not acting like someone who thinks nothing is changing. You are acting like someone upset with impending change. And the “it doesn’t need to change anything, it’s bad just because it’s a waste of the dev’s limited time” counter doesn’t really work when the real dev work is already done. What exactly are you arguing with / what exactly are you upset about? I don’t get it. 

[Marbing]

8 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

You are not understanding.  Whether farmers are in AE or not, they still are not running "normal/right" content with other people.  You are replacing "Sitter LF AE farm" with "Sitter LF PI farm".  The results are exactly the same. 

I am understanding. I just don’t think they care about that. I think all they care about is that all the rewards you would need are in the easier content in the game. So yes, farming something else for merits will be accomplished by this. Which is the point. The behavior isn’t as much the issue as is the amount of stuff you can get in the easiest one stop shop content in the game.

 

This splits that up a little, though I think the first option does this better than the conversion nerf.

 

 

EDIT: Come on @ShardWarrior give me some lovin! Just a little smile. 😝

Edited August 2, 2022 by Marbing

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Marbing said:

I am understanding. I just don’t think they care about that. I think all they care about is that all the rewards you would need are in the easier content in the game.

 

PI portal missions are easy to farm too.  Not all that much more difficult to farm than AE.  It make take a couple of minutes longer to finish, yet the activity is generally the same.  But they are finally outside of AE so, yay?   

 

9 minutes ago, arcane said:

The whole “nothing is really changing so this change must be argued against day and night” argument isn’t very convincing. You are not acting like someone who thinks nothing is changing. You are acting like someone upset with impending change. And the “it doesn’t need to change anything, it’s bad just because it’s a waste of the dev’s limited time” counter doesn’t really work when the real dev work is already done. What exactly are you arguing with / what exactly are you upset about? I don’t get it. 

 

If you want to believe that these changes are miraculously going to get everyone to give up on farming in AE or elsewhere to run "normal/right" content with you, more power to you.  I will believe it when I see it.

[Marbing]

3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

But they are finally outside of AE so, yay?   

Now you’re getting it! Welcome to the inner circle… 😝

Edited August 2, 2022 by Marbing

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

If you want to believe that these changes are miraculously going to get everyone to give up on farming in AE or elsewhere to run "normal/right" content with you, more power to you.  I will believe it when I see it.

I don’t believe you read my post. I asked what you are upset about if nothing is changing. I already understand that you think nothing will change; I’m asking why a non-change is your hill to die on? It’s a very strange stance to me and I sincerely don’t understand it.

Edited August 2, 2022 by arcane

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

If the trend is that players are spending the majority of their time in AE and that trend continues to grow, at what point do we just have one giant AE and forget about all these empty zones?

 

I don't see that happening.  You can't earn badges toward accolades in AE and my experience is most people are using AE to skip the lower levels, then going back and playing them once they've got all their slots and builds finished.  If what you're saying here is true, it would be getting harder and harder to fill requests for TFs and story content.  It's not hard to find or fill teams on Excelsior for anything non-AE related.  I don't know about other servers. 

[Troo]

45 minutes ago, Marbing said:

The inner circle, we have already established this…

 

Ok funny, but for those who havent read as much of the forums: No one steering the ship is telling anyone how to play. (except pvp zones and name squatting)

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

 

Ok funny, but for those who havent read as much of the forums: No one steering the ship is telling anyone how to play. (except for the inner circle, the secret cabal, the illuminati, the new world order, and the freemasons)

Fixed

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I don’t believe you read my post. I asked what you are upset about if nothing is changing. I already understand that you think nothing will change; I’m asking why a non-change is your hill to die on? It’s a very strange stance to me and I sincerely don’t understand it.

 

If the change is aimed at dedicated farmers, afk farmers, etc. those people will adapt. The ones that will be affected by this are more likely casual players. The ones identified as "the problem" will likely suffer no major inconvenience, whereas the people who sometimes farm when the need hits them will lose resources they previously had available to them. Unless they want to run a bunch of additional content that may or may not be attractive to them.

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Ok funny, but for those who havent read as much of the forums: No one steering the ship is telling anyone how to play. (except pvp zones and name squatting)

 

How is changing the rewards granted for different content not them telling people how to play?

Troo you're fired. But i am in no way telling you that you can't come in here and do the work for free.

[Bionic_Flea]

Except he's not fired. 

 

He can still farm.  He can still solo.  He can still team.  He can still run i-trials.  He can now also run advanced difficulty stuff for new or increased rewards.

 

I know this much is  . . . Trooooooooo

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

He can still farm.  He can still solo.  He can still team.  He can still run i-trials.  He can now also run advanced difficulty stuff for new or increased rewards.

But he can do all that right now can't he? Lol don't get hung up on the analogy here my dude--you know the whole conversation revolves around reducing rewards to cause a change in behavior.

 

Also I made the same Troo joke recently 🥸.

[Bionic_Flea]

What reduced rewards are you talking about?  This is Troo's poll thread.  No vet levels vs no emp conversion.  Which of those two are you saying is a reduction?  Or do you think it's both?

[Ruin Mage]

MMOs inherently tell you how to play, so using that as any argument against a change is certainly something.

It's unfortunate that the AE is the #1 source of All Major Rewards (bar the Aether w/ P4), and while they won't outright obliterate that? Prior dev posts have indicated that something has to give. If leaving it as is was on the table, either change would not have been a thing.

Something in some part of the game has to change, and waiting for a Better/Perfect Solution is not on the table either from my understanding.

[Ruin Mage]

As far as I am aware and have read, them joining has been to explain snippets of why the changes were made in the first place. 

Not as an open invitation to offer different solutions, but again I could be reading it wrong.

[arcane]

Changing incentive structure is *NOT* forcing anyone to do anything. 

[ShardWarrior]

20 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I know this much is  . . . Trooooooooo

 

Thanks.  Now I have this stuck in my head. 😭

 

 

 

 

[Troo]

A perfect solution rarely exists.

In software development, if it is perfect, you waited waaay too long to get it out there.

[Marbing]

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

A perfect solution rarely exists.

In software development, if it is perfect, you waited waaay too long to get it out there.

I get to play the game I love. I’d call that perfect. But it took awhile to come back, so point made.

[Troo]

49 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

How is changing the rewards granted for different content not them telling people how to play?

Troo you're fired. But i am in no way telling you that you can't come in here and do the work for free.

 

The mind set is that they are maintaining a goal through tuning, not nerfing.

There is a stated goal: No one way to be the best source of every reward out there with some semblance of a somewhat even playing field.

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Troo
i edit stuff