Bio versus Regen Scrapper Builds - Test

[VoidSpawn2]

Overall concept is to affect a brief comparison between the two, insofar as build optimization, sans Barrier, is possible. 

 

The theme is that of stacked and/or phased layers of Shadow Meld, Rune of Protection, and Moment of Glory. 

 

This is just to get the conversation started. More experimentation to follow. Thoughts and feedback are most welcome, as none of this is set in stone yet. 

 

Basic build comparison is first. 

 

Energy Melee Bio Armor: 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Void9103: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Energy Melee
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Energy Punch -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(5)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), ImpArm-ResPsi(9)
Level 2: Inexhaustible -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 8: Bone Smasher -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(17)
Level 10: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(19)
Level 12: Adaptation 
Level 14: Mystic Flight -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(21), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(23), Pnc-Heal(23), Pnc-Heal/+End(25)
Level 18: Whirling Hands -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Arm-Acc/Rchg(27), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Arm-Dam%(29)
Level 20: Evolving Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Ags-Psi/Status(48), GldArm-3defTpProc(50)
Level 22: Kick -- TchofDth-Dam%(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(29), UnbGrd-Max HP%(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33)
Level 26: Total Focus -- SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(A), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(34)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-Heal(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Spirit Ward -- RgnTss-Regen+(A)
Level 32: Energy Transfer -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(37), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(40)
Level 35: Moonbeam -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Apc-Acc/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Genetic Contamination -- Erd-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Rchg(42), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Shadow Meld -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43), LucoftheG-Def(43), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Parasitic Aura -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-Dam/Rech(45), PwrTrns-Dam/EndMod(46), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/End(46), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/Rech/End(46), PwrTrns-+Heal(48)
Level 47: Rune of Protection -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpSki-Status(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(11)
Level 1: Energy Focus 
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
Level 50: Robotic Drones Total Radial Improved Ally 
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 50: Portal Jockey 
Level 50: Task Force Commander 
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 12: Defensive Adaptation 
Level 12: Efficient Adaptation 
Level 12: Offensive Adaptation 
------------

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Energy Melee Regeneration: 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Energy Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Energy Punch -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(5), Prv-Absorb%(7)
Level 2: Reconstruction -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-Dam/Rech(7), PwrTrns-Dam/EndMod(9), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/End(9), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/Rech/End(11), PwrTrns-+Heal(11)
Level 6: Bone Smasher -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(33)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(13), Pnc-Heal(13)
Level 12: Boxing -- PndSlg-Stun%(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(15), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(15), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), UnbGrd-Max HP%(19)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(21)
Level 18: Whirling Hands -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Arm-Acc/Rchg(36), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Arm-Dam%(37)
Level 20: Integration -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(21), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(23)
Level 22: Resilience -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), GldArm-3defTpProc(25), Ags-Psi/Status(25)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 26: Total Focus -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(42)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(29), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(29)
Level 30: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 32: Energy Transfer -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Hct-Acc/Rchg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Hct-Dam%(43), Hct-Dmg(43)
Level 35: Spirit Ward -- RgnTss-Regen+(A)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(39), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), LucoftheG-Def(39), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(40), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(40)
Level 41: Rune of Protection -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpSki-Status(45)
Level 44: Moonbeam -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Apc-Dam%(46), Dcm-Build%(46)
Level 47: Shadow Meld -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Brawl -- TchofDth-Dam%(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Energy Focus 
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
Level 50: Robotic Drones Total Radial Improved Ally 
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 50: Portal Jockey 
Level 50: Task Force Commander 
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

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[Bill Z Bubba]

So it'll be Shadow Meld, Rune of Protection, MoG, lots of regen, a self heal and some +HP vs SM, RoP, 2 absorb shields, a self heal, a damres debuff, a damage aura and Adaptation?

 

Pretty sure I already know which one wins but I'll happily watch the testing you do.

[BrandX]

I have both of those and while I didn't get the RoP and Shadow Meld on my Regen (as that's not very concepty) I found my EM/Bio/Soul survives better than the EM/Regen/Soul

[Zepp]

So, Regen 2.0 [post-nerf Regen] v Regen 4.0 [Bio]

 

hmmm... my guess and experience suggests that They will be somewhat similar, but Regen 4.0 will win out due to its higher Defense and S/L/Tox Resist (although some mobs may be easier to resist on Regen by a little with the upcoming changes).

You are likely going to need your panic buttons (Rune, Moment, Shadow) for general play in higher level content whereas for Bio they will tend to be more panic buttons than necessities.

You are probably going to feel like you are short on recharge on your Regen toon while you may be able to drop Hasten from your Bio build and still feel like it is working great.

 

I think Regen 2.5 [post-nerf Regen on Sentinel] v Regen 4.0 [Bio] would probably be a better comparison...

[Blackjoy]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:51 AM, VoidSpawn2 said:

Overall concept is to affect a brief comparison between the two, insofar as build optimization, sans Barrier, is possible. 

 

The theme is that of stacked and/or phased layers of Shadow Meld, Rune of Protection, and Moment of Glory. 

So are you trying to see which secondary is better, of which secondary can you make a better build?  The two are not automatically the same.   I have little doubt that Bio allows you to more easily cap +DEF or +RES compared to /Regen, and if /Regen isn't capping something, it's just not going to have the same ceiling.

 

II also find that /Regen is going to require more information management to fully leverage as a player.  While Bio has three click powers, I think Ablative Carapace is something you essentially fire whenever its ready in combat.  Contrast that with /Regen where you need to efficiently manage your click powers and time the use of Recon,  DP, IH, and MoG to maximize their benefit and uptime.

 

 Bio also just has more bells and whistles and layers of defense.  A damage aura that you can put in a proc KD is not something /Regen easily competes with.   

 

The other big advantage Bio has is the adaptability in going offense, defense, or efficiency.   I have only played Bio on a Tank, so I don't know how useful those modes are when soloing, but by certainly you can start spawns in Defense mode for the alpha, swich to offense for the bosses, and then run efficient to clean-up.  

 

But it would be interesting to see a timed run of naked Bio vs naked Regen and see which could clear a 4x0 mission faster.

 

[Thrax]

Regen just plain sucks. I’ve tried my best on a scrapper, brute, and sentinel and have since deleted all of them as they just suck. 

[BrandX]

10 hours ago, Thrax said:

Regen just plain sucks. I’ve tried my best on a scrapper, brute, and sentinel and have since deleted all of them as they just suck. 

 

Just rolled up an EM/NIN Scrapper because I never got Regen to feel tough enough and really, I don't want to take Shadow Meld and Rune of Protection, to try and make it so.

[Blackjoy]

12 hours ago, Thrax said:

Regen just plain sucks. I’ve tried my best on a scrapper, brute, and sentinel and have since deleted all of them as they just suck. 

One of the problems in many of these discussions is that people are speaking about a specific context..   /Regen absolutely doesn't suck from 1-45, I would submit it's one of the best sets for leveling.    But prevailing mindset on these forums is based on "what can I do at lvl 50?" approach.  At level 50, the expectation is about soloing content at 4x8 and the dynamics of that type of game-play make succeeding with /Regen more difficult.   The majority of /Regen's survivability is dependent on the player's decision making.  This is in direct contrast to sets like /Willpower, /Shield, or /SR, which put comparatively little to no demand on the player to effect mitigation.  

 

At level 50, soloing 4x8, a player's window for decision making and threat assessment is markedly smaller than soloing 2x0 at 30 or even 3x0  in the 40's.  Naked, burst/spike damage from encounters is more deadly to /Regen.  MoG and DP+IH can handle that in specific cases, but it's not as consistently effective as capped +RES or +DEF, which other sets can more easily achieve by end game.

[Blackjoy]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

 

Just rolled up an EM/NIN Scrapper because I never got Regen to feel tough enough and really, I don't want to take Shadow Meld and Rune of Protection, to try and make it so.

None of the sets are doing 4x8 without massive aid from either power pools, set bonuses, or Incarnates. I find it hypocritical when players poo poo SM or RoP, but then their build relies on cycling Barrier or Ageless.   

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

None of the sets are doing 4x8 without massive aid from either power pools, set bonuses, or Incarnates. I find it hypocritical when players poo poo SM or RoP, but then their build relies on cycling Barrier or Ageless.   

 

I wasn't even thinking 4x8 content.  And I never make my builds to feel like they need to cycle incarnates on normal content 😛  

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

One of the problems in many of these discussions is that people are speaking about a specific context..   /Regen absolutely doesn't suck from 1-45, I would submit it's one of the best sets for leveling.

 

Maybe if you team all the time and have constant buffers around you. I absolutely did NOT find it on par with any other secondary while I was leveling that fire/regen brute. It was only AFTER I went to test and grabbed RoP on top of MoG on top of Hybrid Melee that it became tolerable and I certainly don't need any of that on other brutes.

[Blackjoy]

8 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I wasn't even thinking 4x8 content.  And I never make my builds to feel like they need to cycle incarnates on normal content 😛  

If you're not talking about 4xX settings, then you defenitely don't need RoP to make /Regen work.  I've solo'd two  /Regens up, and it easily outperforms my /Shield (Brute), /SR, and /Willpower scrappers pre-50.  I end every encounter at full health and endurance.   I don't think of /Regen as being "tough," I think of it being resilient.   /Regen gets hit and takes damage.  But you heal it back and once you start slotting up your primary, mobs are dead.  At 43, I am soloing +3x0 content with no power pool mitigation.  The only set bonuses are from Overwhelming Fear and that's it.  Everything else is just straight IOs . I  do use Hasten after popping DP or IH, but 90% of the encounters I complete with just Reconstruction.    

Edited August 14, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Troo]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:04 AM, Zepp said:

So, Regen 2.0 [post-nerf Regen] v Regen 4.0 [Bio]

 

oh geez. lol

 

On 8/7/2022 at 8:51 AM, VoidSpawn2 said:

phased layers of Shadow Meld, Rune of Protection, and Moment of Glory.

 

Don't forget Demonic Aura for those rare times recharge gets floored.

 

On 8/12/2022 at 9:31 PM, Thrax said:

Regen just plain sucks. I’ve tried my best on a scrapper, brute, and sentinel and have since deleted all of them as they just suck. 

 

frontrunner.. lol

[VoidSpawn2]

Having 6 click powers for the /REGEN version is somewhat annoying: Instant Healing, Rune of Protection, Dull Pain, Moment of Glory, Shadow Meld, and Reconstruction. This is without Incarnates, of course. 

 

Thus far, at baseline 50, it's surprisingly durable. However, there's a lot of micromanagement occurring. 

[BrandX]

37 minutes ago, VoidSpawn2 said:

Having 6 click powers for the /REGEN version is somewhat annoying: Instant Healing, Rune of Protection, Dull Pain, Moment of Glory, Shadow Meld, and Reconstruction. This is without Incarnates, of course. 

 

Thus far, at baseline 50, it's surprisingly durable. However, there's a lot of micromanagement occurring. 

 

Didn't find that Instant Healing helping me much on ITFs.  

[VoidSpawn2]

The Sentinel version is much better. 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

20 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

At 43, I am soloing +3x0 content with no power pool mitigation.

 

...