AE Building

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Actually, no, it isn't. As I don't have to prove anything

You asserted something about me without evidence...

 

3 minutes ago, Neiska said:

the burden of proof is also on you to prove that without a doubt each and every one who doesn't know basic general knowledge of the game is someone who got power leveled

Please show where I said "each and every" with regard to this?  Remember, we're talking about people that don't know where the tram is, or how to get from zone-to-zone.

 

4 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Says the one who makes statements about an entire part of the community

If you mean those that were solely power leveled and don't know what the trams are, where they are, or what they do, then yes.

 

6 minutes ago, Neiska said:

I sincerely we never do as I suspect neither of us would enjoy it

Yeah - I expect understanding of basic game mechanics for high-level/end-game content... silly me.

 

6 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Someone with a chip on their shoulder in a rush runs off ahead of everyone else.

*I* don't run off ahead of everyone else.  The 7 of us that are ready to go are just probably going to start, while the 8th person is still trying to figure out where the trams are and what they do.

 

8 minutes ago, Neiska said:

But your own Anecdotes count as evidence? 

I haven't provided any specific anecdotes, though.  I've spoke in generalities, sure, but I have not provided any specific instances or examples.

 

9 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Sure, the issue is that person. Who is doing something new for the first time, could be young, or inexperienced, or any number of scenarios.

Who is max level, having been PL'd to that point?  Remember the situation we're talking about.  in that case, there is no excuse.  If we were talking about a level 1 or 10, who is willign to learn, then that's a completely different scenario.

 

11 minutes ago, Neiska said:

You expect everyone to know the location or be willing to find it when joining a team, yes? Fine. Fair.

Then stop arguing.

 

12 minutes ago, Neiska said:

I am just pointing out reasons or scenarios why they wouldn't, any of which are plausible, could be expected in an online multiplayer game and so on. You expect familiarity with core game mechanics, and so on. What if your team member is a toddler, or someone who doesn't speak English, or any number of possibilities?

Seriously!?  A toddler?  Is this what you're arguing now?  You keep trying to argue these weird edge cases, which really don't apply.  A person doesn't understand English, but somehow managed to advertise that they were looking for team via chat?  If they can do this much, then they can understand "Press M, go to the T symbol".

 

16 minutes ago, Neiska said:

You don't want to team with certain people? Fine. Just know that others may not want to team with you in turn, not for lack of abilities or knowledge, because that isn't the only things that make a team good or bad. And those other people for whatever reason are free to not team with you or anyone else, despite whatever "encouragements" are put in place to entice them to do so. Live and let live a little, yes?

 

*I* am open to team with anyone, and will give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.  If that circumstance arises, then they have removed themselves from the pool of competent players, not the other way around.  The lack of ability or knowledge is precisely the discussion at hand.  Who mentioned forcing anyone to team with anyone else?  If you advertise that you are LFG, then you did that of your own accord.  No one forced you to accept my invite.  No one forced you to enter the mission.  No one forced you to remain with the team...

[Neiska]

@biostem - Yea, at this point it's clear we will never see eye to eye on this. And personally, I no longer care. Just going to put you on ignore because I believe that's best.

[Blackfeather]

Per the user agreement, only people thirteen years old and up are allowed to play here.

 

Quote

5. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT

(a) By clicking "ACCEPT" You warrant and represent that you:

• (1) are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of yourself;
• (2) are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom you are legally permitted to allow access to the Game; or
• (3) are a minor age 13-17 that has been authorized to click "ACCEPT" under the provisions of Section 5(b) below. YOU ARE HEREBY FOREWARNED THAT HOMECOMING MAY, IN ITS SOLE AND ABSOLUTE DISCRETION, EXERCISE ITS SECTION 2(b) RIGHT TO TERMINATE BASED ON FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE CRITERIA ABOVE.

[Neiska]

3 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Per the user agreement, only people thirteen years old and up are allowed to play here.

 

 

Yep I had thought about that too. Pretty certain it still happens though. 😆

[srmalloy]

12 hours ago, biostem said:

Here's where the issue arises - as soon as you team with others, it is no longer "your" thing - it is now a shared experience, and you have to take into account that there will be some expectations placed upon you - among them, knowing how to get from zone A to zone B.

This. If someone wants to spend all their time in AP, or inside the AE, or in their base, that's their choice. If they come out and join a TF, and then have to be hand-held to micromanage every step of just getting to the zone the TF starts in, and then everyone else in the team has to wait every mission because they not only have to be hand-held to get to the mission, but don't have any movement power beyond Sprint, then they need to either go back to AE (or whatever they were doing) or start a new character and level it while learning what you need to do to be effective out in the wider world of Paragon City/the Rogue Isles. Expecting everyone else to reshape their play to fit them us, in my opinion, unreasonable.

[Ukase]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:57 AM, ivanhedgehog said:

If you told me to go to a specific place red side, I probably couldnt find it. I leveled 1 toon there around I8. I dont go there very often at all. I am very much not someone that has been power leveled.

I am pretty sure if someone told you to go to Port Oakes, you would know enough to find the ferry to get there. 

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Blackfeather said:

Per the user agreement, only people thirteen years old and up are allowed to play here.

 

You don't honestly think that a person under 13 couldn't blissfully ignore that user agreement the same way teens agree they are over 18 and look at porn? Of course they can. Anyone that thinks differently is an idiot. 

[Ukase]

22 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

They should take the AE out of the Pocket D instead of level capping it.

I think the only reason it was put there was to make it easy for villains/heroes to team up and farm. I don't recall it being there during live. And for the folks that run non-farm content in AE, I guess it makes it easier for them, too. 

But they can always go to RWZ. What's strange to me is there isn't one in Kallista Wharf, a co-op zone with nothing else going on there. Seems like a perfect place for one. I'm not real clear why there's one in most zones, other than to encourage it's use. 

[Ukase]

13 hours ago, Neiska said:

See, this is where I take issue. Such as expecting/demanding everyone take a travel power or get kicked. That is just straight up dictating or being a Karen.

First, Karen is a name. It is not a description. Some folks might think it is, but I know several ladies named Karen, and they do not represent the behavior this label infers certain women have. It is patently rude to use such a description to refer to anyone. If someone's an ass, just use the word ass to describe the behavior, unless you're concerned about offending certain mules or donkeys. 

Second, expecting players to have a travel power is normal. To not have any travel power is just ludicrous. There's usually no reason to not have one. Now, I understand for thematic, possibly RP purposes, some folks may delay in getting one, or opt to just use ninja/athletic run, or whatever. But that's still a power. To play the game with just sprint, I can't wrap my head around that. And I don't have to. It's ultimately none of my business. 
However, me dictating that they must get a travel power - that's a no-no. Not my role to tell anyone how to play - although I will consider them a bit silly, or a bit stupid. Or both. I won't share that thought with them, but I'll think it, for sure. 

[espectro]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

First, Karen is a name. It is not a description. Some folks might think it is, but I know several ladies named Karen, and they do not represent the behavior this label infers certain women have. It is patently rude to use such a description to refer to anyone. If someone's an ass, just use the word ass to describe the behavior, unless you're concerned about offending certain mules or donkeys. 

 

Thank you! It's a name. I feel that way about Barbie. It's a lady not a doll! And Australia with your SHRIMP ON THE BARBIE keep your weird sex stuff to yourself man. Like that's pure herrassment.

[Neiska]

7 minutes ago, Ukase said:

First, Karen is a name. It is not a description. Some folks might think it is, but I know several ladies named Karen, and they do not represent the behavior this label infers certain women have. It is patently rude to use such a description to refer to anyone. If someone's an ass, just use the word ass to describe the behavior, unless you're concerned about offending certain mules or donkeys. 

Second, expecting players to have a travel power is normal. To not have any travel power is just ludicrous. There's usually no reason to not have one. Now, I understand for thematic, possibly RP purposes, some folks may delay in getting one, or opt to just use ninja/athletic run, or whatever. But that's still a power. To play the game with just sprint, I can't wrap my head around that. And I don't have to. It's ultimately none of my business. 
However, me dictating that they must get a travel power - that's a no-no. Not my role to tell anyone how to play - although I will consider them a bit silly, or a bit stupid. Or both. I won't share that thought with them, but I'll think it, for sure. 

 

And it is also patently rude to demand or make terms or conditions of others in order to play, even if they aren't teaming together. Which is what this whole thing is turning into if you want to break it down into a nutshell. Personally, I use travel powers. But not everyone does.

 

As far as the Karen thing goes, a good part of the internet uses it as a byword for narcissistic, bossy people who use any excuse or abuse any option available to simply get their way.  And going "take X powers or else" Certainly, falls under Karen-hood.

[Blackfeather]

53 minutes ago, Ukase said:

You don't honestly think that a person under 13 couldn't blissfully ignore that user agreement the same way teens agree they are over 18 and look at porn? Of course they can. Anyone that thinks differently is an idiot. 

 

If so, they aren't allowed to play here, and should be reported accordingly by other players.

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, Neiska said:

As far as the Karen thing goes, a good part of the internet uses it as a byword for narcissistic, bossy people who use any excuse or abuse any option available to simply get their way.  And going "take X powers or else" Certainly, falls under Karen-hood.

 

Yeah, it's always important to make sure there's a word that lets everyone know it's bad for women to have opinions.  

 

Oh, but that's not what Karen means, everyone says.  It's just bad opinions, being expressed in the wrong way.  It's about being rude! You're being silly!  It's not gendered!  And yet, it's not a male name that was chosen.  Weird, that.  Guess men never treat serving staff badly.

 

On the other hand, it's a great way to know who to block online, so there's that going for it.

[Neiska]

1 minute ago, Grouchybeast said:

Yeah, it's always important to make sure there's a word that lets everyone know it's bad for women to have opinions. 

 

But I am a woman, with an opinion. And yes, it's so wonderful to see a patch bring out the best in the community. 😆

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

And it is also patently rude to demand or make terms or conditions of others in order to play, even if they aren't teaming together. Which is what this whole thing is turning into if you want to break it down into a nutshell. Personally, I use travel powers. But not everyone does.

 

As far as the Karen thing goes, a good part of the internet uses it as a byword for narcissistic, bossy people who use any excuse or abuse any option available to simply get their way.  And going "take X powers or else" Certainly, falls under Karen-hood.

You mean, "A bad part of the internet" uses it as a byword for ..etc. 

I just think it's bad form. I have a daughter named Felicia. The teasing she got during that stupid "Bye Felicia" meme was horrendous. 
While it may be true that there's a woman out there somewhere that treated some waitstaff horribly, it's equally horrible to perpetuate it's use in such a poor fashion. 

I mean, I get it, it's something most folks understand. We all have a clear understanding of profanity, but that doesn't mean we should use it. We're all mostly adults, let's use the words we already know instead of coming up with new ones. 

Sorry, I don't mean this to be an attack, it's just a peeve of mine. 

[Neiska]

2 minutes ago, Ukase said:

You mean, "A bad part of the internet" uses it as a byword for ..etc. 

I just think it's bad form. I have a daughter named Felicia. The teasing she got during that stupid "Bye Felicia" meme was horrendous. 
While it may be true that there's a woman out there somewhere that treated some waitstaff horribly, it's equally horrible to perpetuate it's use in such a poor fashion. 

I mean, I get it, it's something most folks understand. We all have a clear understanding of profanity, but that doesn't mean we should use it. We're all mostly adults, let's use the words we already know instead of coming up with new ones. 

Sorry, I don't mean this to be an attack, it's just a peeve of mine. 

 

Sure. And it's a pet peeve of mine to have the difficulties of being deaf just being handwaved away or told they don't exist. More importantly, I do agree with you - using terms poor form. But I didn't fire the first shot here, and the person in question is on ignore now. So, all's well ends well, I guess.

 

I think the big takeaway here is that 1. The forums can be pretty heated at times. 2. This patch really brought forth some passion/emotion on all sides. And I take a pretty dim view of one group of players all but doing the mocking jig when another group of players playstyle suffered. 

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Neiska said:

And it is also patently rude to demand or make terms or conditions of others in order to play, even if they aren't teaming together.

You want to run solo, or inside the AE building, you're fine with however you choose to build your character. But if you come out of the AE building, join a Citadel TF, and the only movement power you have is the inherent Sprint -- and don't even know that the P2W vendors sell jump and flight packs, then get bent out of shape because nobody is waiting for you to sprint to the NW corner of IP for a mission, then the "patently rude" demands are on the part of the AE baby. And yes, I've had exactly this experience with someone who was playing a level 50 character. They did know how to get around between zones, but they didn't think how much time it took them should matter to anyone else.

[Neiska]

Just now, srmalloy said:

You want to run solo, or inside the AE building, you're fine with however you choose to build your character. But if you come out of the AE building, join a Citadel TF, and the only movement power you have is the inherent Sprint -- and don't even know that the P2W vendors sell jump and flight packs, then get bent out of shape because nobody is waiting for you to sprint to the NW corner of IP for a mission, then the "patently rude" demands are on the part of the AE baby. And yes, I've had exactly this experience with someone who was playing a level 50 character. They did know how to get around between zones, but they didn't think how much time it took them should matter to anyone else.

 

First off, I personally use movement powers. My usual go-to is flight, but sometimes its mythic flight or teleport, depends. So this isn't "me" here.

Secondly, it is the principle of the matter. If that is allowed by the community as a sort of unspoken rule, then what else might slide? Would a petless MM be welcome? How about a weak or non min-maxed powers pairing defender? A melee focused blaster? Or whatever else we want to imagine for context? As an example, what if the leader goes "meh, whatever's clever" and doesn't make a deal out of it, and then one of you go "zomg no travel powers!" What then? Its suddenly not your team. See my point here?

 

I agree they "Should", but I disagree that it should be some sort of unspoken rule. And I still say the rude ones are the ones making demands. If a person shows up unprepared, then it's really on them to make changes. If not, then maybe that activity isn't for them. That said however, expect some /popcorn moments when it's harder and harder to fill teams as time goes on, particularly when team leaders go "all people must have X Y Z" attitudes. And I for one shall point and smirk.

 

People are allowed to play for fun. You might see TFs as super serious business, I assure you, not everyone takes the pixels on the screens so seriously.

 

I just disagree with the general concept of "players must have X Y Z" unspoken rules. This isn't Wow. Not everyone is in your raiding guild who must show up with flasks/food/raid supplies, and what you are doing is more or less turning CoH into that. If it was your PRIVATE Supergroup run, then yes by all means use whatever rules you guys agree on amongst yourselves. But the community as a whole made entirely from randoms and the lfg? Respectfully disagree. Or at least advertise whatever stipulations you might have when creating the group. Don't go "Citadel TF LFM" then get upset when you get people who might not meet your expectations, particularly when you didn't state them beforehand.

[RikOz]

23 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

Fair! Far as that game goes what I loathed was the months of dailies for reputation, and then they considered that "content." 😑

See, now, I loved daily quests! Especially once they started putting them on a random rotation, so that it wasn't exactly the same thing every day.

[ivanhedgehog]

11 hours ago, Ukase said:

I am pretty sure if someone told you to go to Port Oakes, you would know enough to find the ferry to get there. 

sure, but any specific part of the zone? I dont have a clue. out of 197 alts 2 of them happen to be red side. Not because I dont play the game, I just dont play that part of the game.

 

[ivanhedgehog]

7 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

First off, I personally use movement powers. My usual go-to is flight, but sometimes its mythic flight or teleport, depends. So this isn't "me" here.

Secondly, it is the principle of the matter. If that is allowed by the community as a sort of unspoken rule, then what else might slide? Would a petless MM be welcome? How about a weak or non min-maxed powers pairing defender? A melee focused blaster? Or whatever else we want to imagine for context? As an example, what if the leader goes "meh, whatever's clever" and doesn't make a deal out of it, and then one of you go "zomg no travel powers!" What then? Its suddenly not your team. See my point here?

 

I agree they "Should", but I disagree that it should be some sort of unspoken rule. And I still say the rude ones are the ones making demands. If a person shows up unprepared, then it's really on them to make changes. If not, then maybe that activity isn't for them. That said however, expect some /popcorn moments when it's harder and harder to fill teams as time goes on, particularly when team leaders go "all people must have X Y Z" attitudes. And I for one shall point and smirk.

 

People are allowed to play for fun. You might see TFs as super serious business, I assure you, not everyone takes the pixels on the screens so seriously.

 

I just disagree with the general concept of "players must have X Y Z" unspoken rules. This isn't Wow. Not everyone is in your raiding guild who must show up with flasks/food/raid supplies, and what you are doing is more or less turning CoH into that. If it was your PRIVATE Supergroup run, then yes by all means use whatever rules you guys agree on amongst yourselves. But the community as a whole made entirely from randoms and the lfg? Respectfully disagree. Or at least advertise whatever stipulations you might have when creating the group. Don't go "Citadel TF LFM" then get upset when you get people who might not meet your expectations, particularly when you didn't state them beforehand.

stormies. always kick stormies. If they cant control their knockback they arent wanted. If you want a certain skill level...make a channel that only allows skilled players in it. only recruit from that channel. One of the great things about this game was that you could complete just about any content with the players you picked up in chat. this release blows that out the window. right now you are getting people in their tricked out super builds joining. before long you will see some people in SOs. the game was balanced around so builds. the devs decided to kill that and separate the game into eilte and nonelite players. expect a lot more of this sort of problem in the near future.

[Ukase]

40 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

sure, but any specific part of the zone? I dont have a clue. out of 197 alts 2 of them happen to be red side. Not because I dont play the game, I just dont play that part of the game.

 

Guess I'm just as ignorant. I remember where The Fab is in Grandville, but only because of the badge there. 
Thing is, when I get invited, I can see from the team window what zone they're in. Once I get in zone, if I am not real clear where the contact is, I can just head over to where the leader is. We don't really have to know, for example, where the Hyperion neighborhood marker is in Atlas. 

Nor do we need to know where the Grim Vale is in Croatoa, if we join a GM kill team. All we need to know is where the train is, or an sg portal, take one or the other, and once in zone, head towards the team leader. 

 

[ivanhedgehog]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

Guess I'm just as ignorant. I remember where The Fab is in Grandville, but only because of the badge there. 
Thing is, when I get invited, I can see from the team window what zone they're in. Once I get in zone, if I am not real clear where the contact is, I can just head over to where the leader is. We don't really have to know, for example, where the Hyperion neighborhood marker is in Atlas. 

Nor do we need to know where the Grim Vale is in Croatoa, if we join a GM kill team. All we need to know is where the train is, or an sg portal, take one or the other, and once in zone, head towards the team leader. 

 

agreed. I am just saying that there are  people that played a lot, were good at the game, that still havent seen all the nooks and crannies this game has to offer. Or just dont remember them. I knew people on live that played from day 1 to close that werent good at the game. but they had loads of fun, and were fun to be around. I knew people that played that had challenges to everyday life that the rest of us dont. I dont want to see a game that caters to the elite players only, like wow does. The devs release the costume system and set it to cater to the elite, while it is something rp'rs have been asking for for years. The costumes are set to 1 character only which will further complicate people with multiple specific use characters. It isw obvious that they want to incentivise +4 Tfs, but it may backfire on them.

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

agreed. I am just saying that there are  people that played a lot, were good at the game, that still havent seen all the nooks and crannies this game has to offer. Or just dont remember them. I knew people on live that played from day 1 to close that werent good at the game. but they had loads of fun, and were fun to be around. I knew people that played that had challenges to everyday life that the rest of us dont. I dont want to see a game that caters to the elite players only, like wow does. The devs release the costume system and set it to cater to the elite, while it is something rp'rs have been asking for for years. The costumes are set to 1 character only which will further complicate people with multiple specific use characters. It isw obvious that they want to incentivise +4 Tfs, but it may backfire on them.

So...I can kind of see how you might think the game is  catering to a certain group. The earlier page, when they took away temp powers (like my jetpack) when in a pvp zone, it certainly seemed like there was some effort put in to appease the folks that liked to pvp. And they are either a rare bunch, or a very quiet bunch. I only know of a handful of players that will tolerate pvp, (as in think it's okay) whereas the rest are decidedly anti-pvp, and you could remove those zones, and they would never know. 

As they are a volunteer staff, it also stands to reason they'd work on things that capture their interest. So, I guess I'd just say be patient. Empty words, I know, but it's all I got. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Ukase

[QuasarX]

I fear how this game is being managed and designed in particular the AE building in Atlas Park, no reason to get rid of it completely. The replacement could have been located somewhere else in Atlas. The original developers (Cryptic Studio / Paragon) put the AE building there for a reason. This looks like duct tape  was used to solve a problem that could have been solve another way. Are there any original developers advising on the changes being made? I doubt it.