Incarnate Apha question

[Techwright]

I've been doing some catch-up reading in the forums, and after seeing "Incarnate" umpteen times, an old question I've long held popped  back to the forefront of my thinking:

 

What was the OG developers mindset behind having both an Incarnate Shard path and an Incarnate Thread path for Alpha?  For only Alpha?  And why even have Shard when it is so ridiculously easy to build using Thread as opposed to Shard? 

 

I confess I don't really get the Shard Path concept.  It takes far longer (for me anyway) to earn what is needed, and I can only use it on Alpha.

[Luminara]

Shards were only for Alpha components, and Alpha components only used shards (or related components in the shard path, like Grai Matter/Notice of the Well/Favor of the Well/etc) when the Incarnate system was implemented.  Shards originally only dropped from Incarnate content when it was in beta, until the forums went batshit at the implication that no Incarnate progress would be permitted unless the player ran Incarnate trials, at which point Paragon added shards... at a drop rate which would require 8-9 months of grinding for 4-6 hours every day to reach T4 (that was when i went batshit, too (i was the one who calculated the time based on the drop rate)).

 

Thread paths were added to Alpha post-shutdown, and threads added as regular drops on non-Incarnate critters, so players wouldn't have to grind endlessly to complete the Alpha slot.

[Grouchybeast]

The Incarnate system was an attempt to bolt a super-grindy end game onto a game where the traditional 'end game' was to roll another alt.  Multiple currencies are a feature of systems like that, because it stops people being able to use stored resources to rush the next tier of end-game content.  So Alpha was the first part of the new end game, and had a new currency, and for a while Alpha was all we had.  When the next tier was introduced, that had its own XP only earned through certain content, and its own currency and components again, and all the Shards and Alpha components that players had built up were useless for it.  Everyone had to start the new tier at zero.  If the live servers had stayed up, there presumably would have been multiple new tiers added, each with new currencies locked behind new trials to keep the hamsters busy on their wheels and paying their subs.

 

IMO, it was never a good fit for CoX, either mechanically or conceptually.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Grouchybeast

[Ukase]

ah, the old shard vs. thread issue. 

I can understand that many folks despise the shards. And why? Because they don't get many of them. 

The RNG can be rather fickle, but many folks don't help themselves. 

I have seen people complain bitterly about doing iTrials all day and not getting a single shard. And it pains me to share with them that shards don't drop in iTrials. 
So, of course, they won't get any. 

What many people don't realize is that shards were never meant to be aggregated and used to make components - except the favor of the well. The recipes that make them were meant to be earned separately. 

Take a peek: 


Essence of the Incarnate is a reward option for completing the Ms. Lib or LRSF. 
Hero 1 DNA Sample is a reward option for completing the LGTF. 

Dimensional Keystone is a reward option for completing Khan or Cuda. 

So, if you sped through those three, it's conceivable you'd have your t-1 alpha in an hour or so. 
Shards would also drop randomly while you did that content. 

Now, where things bog down are when you move to the 2nd tier, because you need 8 shards to add to yet another component you might earn from completing a given task force. 

This is why a lot of folks will burn threads to get the t-3 and let the shards accumulate as they work all the other incarnate powers, and then when they're done with all of those, they'll revisit the shards they have, make what they can make, and if they just want to be done with it and park the character to make a new alt, they might choose to burn some emp merits and finish the alpha. Some folks just stop at t-3 and call it a day. 

 

When I have a new 50, I often let it sit in a farm map for vet levels - but conveniently, a ton of shards will drop in a farm map. Please note, I do try to remember to use a Windfall. They don't work as far as giving more influence (it says it does, but it doesn't) but it will increase t-3 inspiration drops, salvage & recipe drops, and of course, shards) 
And, if I am feeling adventurous and have particularly enjoyed the character, I'll forgo that, and just play it - keeping a sharp eye out for MSRs and hami raids. 

Both mitos and buds tend to drop shards more often than not. Depending on how you play, it's not inconceivable to be t-3 from shards in about 3-4 hours of play. It just depends on what you're doing. And, of course, it's also possible it could take you a lot longer than that. As I said, the RNG is fickle. 

A number of players absolutely insist they've done the math and think shards are for idiots and they ignore them until they have enough to convert into threads. I think these people are a bit pig-headed. But, I have to entertain the notion that I'm the pig-headed one. Still, I'll use shards at minimum to get from t-3 to t-4. No sense burning any threads or emps on that, since eventually, I'll get the shards. 
But, many of us like to do things differently. So, your views and practices will certainly vary, as will your results with the rng. 

[Spaghetti Betty]

Ah yes, the age old question. To shard or not to shard? Hopefully, not when you're wearing pants.

[Biff Pow]

The mindset was money. One path was free content (I think shards) and the other premium paid content (threads). Something like that, it's been a long time, but that's why there's two systems.

[StrikerFox]

Shards was the initial method when the Alpha slot was introduced during i19. Then I think a lot of players farmed and hoarded shards in preparation for future incarnate abilities. Then when i20 came out, the devs were like, "SURPRISE SUCKAS!" New thread system.

[momentarygrace]

15 hours ago, Supertanker said:

The mindset was money. One path was free content (I think shards) and the other premium paid content (threads). Something like that, it's been a long time, but that's why there's two systems.

 

Yep, the Alpha slot was available to everyone, but the other slots required a subscription, not available for free-to-players.

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, momentarygrace said:

 

Yep, the Alpha slot was available to everyone, but the other slots required a subscription, not available for free-to-players.

 

I thought that the whole of the Incarnate system was locked behind the subscription?  I got a second account after free accounts were introduced, and it was incredibly restricted.  It didn't even have access to the AH or IO sets unless you paid for them.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Grouchybeast

[Placta]

20 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I thought that the whole of the Incarnate system was locked behind the subscription?  I got a second account after free accounts were introduced, and it was incredibly restricted.  It didn't even have access to the AH or IO sets unless you paid for them.

 

Yes. All Incarnates were subscription-locked. [1] [2] [3]

 

Shards dropped from normal content. Threads dropped in Incarnate content (trials, DA, Belladonna Vetrano), which was also the only place to get XP for Judgement/Interface/Lore/Destiny (and Hybrid, from the Magesterium trial only). With Homecoming, that distinction is lost.