Trap/TA/Poison?

[Zilean]

Hi peeps! I have always played a debuffer or buffer in MMO's. Ive lurked in the forums for a little bit and I have come across a few builds for TA but I don't really know what is current with the new update out. I have not seen too many poison or trap builds either. My goal is super end game content like hard ITF or anything like it. Would you guys do me the honor of posting your updated builds for any of these sets?

[Psyonico]

If you're doing Hard Mode, my understanding is a combination of buffs and debuffs is key. None of those three sets have particularly strong buffs, so they might not be the best choices.  That being said, all three of them are excellent for non-HM content.  Did you have a thought on which secondary you wanted to go with?  That would help with build selections.

[Zilean]

12 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

If you're doing Hard Mode, my understanding is a combination of buffs and debuffs is key. None of those three sets have particularly strong buffs, so they might not be the best choices.  That being said, all three of them are excellent for non-HM content.  Did you have a thought on which secondary you wanted to go with?  That would help with build selections.

Thank you for the reply! Archery, Beam Rifle, Dark Blast, and Rad are all ones that I am heavily considering. I am not opposed to the other options, I just don't have a lot of knowledge of the subject of synergies and what people like to see on their teams.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Zilean

[Psyonico]

Here are some recommendations, I also threw a couple other primaries in there as well.

Dark Miasma - Dark Blast.mxd Poison - Water.mxd Radiation Emission - Radiation Blast.mxd Thermal Radiation - Dual Pistols.mxd Traps - Assault Rifle.mxd Traps - Dual Pistols.mxd Trick Arrow - Archery.mxd Trick Arrow - Dark Blast.mxd

[Six-Six]

Poison's got some mighty mighty juju in the form of Envenom and Weaken. Them's some serious debuffs with really fast recharge and very low end cost... as long as you don't mind the spitting animation. However, Poison leaves you with zero def/res (though it does have -to hit which kinda translates to def/res) and no self-heals... and a cumbersome single target ally heal.

While TA is the same on the heals and def/res front, it's a more offensive-oriented set that has a wide range of tools. I find it challenging to pick the powers from TA since I want to take them all, but I can't... not without sacrificing other aspects of my toon such as attacks, def/res, and self heals.

I prefer Traps for a more well-rounded tool kit. You have immobs, holds, heals, slows, AND FFG. the last 2-3 powers are very skippable which leaves you with more power choices to shore up def/res or add on to your attacks/buffs. 

From the 3 secondaries you listed, my personal preference would be Beam. It has a -regen component... which helps... and I like rifles. 😃

[Zilean]

16 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Here are some recommendations, I also threw a couple other primaries in there as well.

Dark Miasma - Dark Blast.mxd 4.97 kB · 0 downloads Poison - Water.mxd 4.84 kB · 0 downloads Radiation Emission - Radiation Blast.mxd 4.7 kB · 0 downloads Thermal Radiation - Dual Pistols.mxd 5.12 kB · 0 downloads Traps - Assault Rifle.mxd 4.7 kB · 0 downloads Traps - Dual Pistols.mxd 4.91 kB · 0 downloads Trick Arrow - Archery.mxd 4.96 kB · 0 downloads Trick Arrow - Dark Blast.mxd 4.68 kB · 0 downloads

Gonna start looking through these right now! Thank you very much!

 

15 minutes ago, Six-Six said:

Poison's got some mighty mighty juju in the form of Envenom and Weaken. Them's some serious debuffs with really fast recharge and very low end cost... as long as you don't mind the spitting animation. However, Poison leaves you with zero def/res (though it does have -to hit which kinda translates to def/res) and no self-heals... and a cumbersome single target ally heal.

While TA is the same on the heals and def/res front, it's a more offensive-oriented set that has a wide range of tools. I find it challenging to pick the powers from TA since I want to take them all, but I can't... not without sacrificing other aspects of my toon such as attacks, def/res, and self heals.

I prefer Traps for a more well-rounded tool kit. You have immobs, holds, heals, slows, AND FFG. the last 2-3 powers are very skippable which leaves you with more power choices to shore up def/res or add on to your attacks/buffs. 

From the 3 secondaries you listed, my personal preference would be Beam. It has a -regen component... which helps... and I like rifles. 😃

Are the poison traps any useful for either set? I know they have different debuffs but would I even have enough time to get them off on fast teams? The thought of a stealthy teleporting poison trap master to initiate fights seems like a fun theory, but would it work well in reality?

[Ankhammon]

Although there are lots of groovy combo's you can pick from here, I can tell you that TA/Dark is very strong outside of the HM content. I haven't done any of that so I don't wanna lead you astray.

You'd get good hold options, serious amounts of -tohit, good -dam, and a groovy extra (large) bit of damage to top it off. Heck, you even get a self heal thrown in for good measure.

 

Make it a TA/Dark/Soul and you can pump out tons of debuffs which should make you a valuable member of a HM squad.

[Zilean]

4 minutes ago, Ankhammon said:

Although there are lots of groovy combo's you can pick from here, I can tell you that TA/Dark is very strong outside of the HM content. I haven't done any of that so I don't wanna lead you astray.

You'd get good hold options, serious amounts of -tohit, good -dam, and a groovy extra (large) bit of damage to top it off. Heck, you even get a self heal thrown in for good measure.

 

Make it a TA/Dark/Soul and you can pump out tons of debuffs which should make you a valuable member of a HM squad.

Thats the goal. Its just a bit hard to choose because I see so many knowledgeable people commenting on how to slot it, but when I look at their builds they are vastly different. You have proc monster builds, you have people who 6 slot flash arrow and then a few posts down someone else only 1 slots it. I love that there is a variety to choose from, but it is hard to make a decision.

[Six-Six]

I use Poison Traps differently. I don't set one up before the fight and have the entire mob miss them. Instead, I drop one in the middle of a fight to be sure it will trip. When it does, it's a thing of beauty. 😃 

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, Zilean said:

Are the poison traps any useful for either set? I know they have different debuffs but would I even have enough time to get them off on fast teams? The thought of a stealthy teleporting poison trap master to initiate fights seems like a fun theory, but would it work well in reality?

 

Poison Trap in Traps is pretty much a must take.  It's your -regen power and has a nice hold component to it as well.  In fast moving teams, however, you'll only use it against AVs/GMs.

 

Poison Trap in Poison is more skippable.  It too does a hold (it used to be a sleep, which was basically useless) and it does -recovery.  Since Poison doesn't have any -end powers, this is only useful (IMO) if you are Electric Blast.

[Zilean]

I made this based off of a few other builds floating around the forum. How does it measure up?

 

14 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

Poison Trap in Traps is pretty much a must take.  It's your -regen power and has a nice hold component to it as well.  In fast moving teams, however, you'll only use it against AVs/GMs.

 

Poison Trap in Poison is more skippable.  It too does a hold (it used to be a sleep, which was basically useless) and it does -recovery.  Since Poison doesn't have any -end powers, this is only useful (IMO) if you are Electric Blast.

Oooo I like that idea, poison/elec could be lots of fun

Sneaky - Defender (Trick Arrow).mxd

[Psyonico]

I would make 2 minor changes to the build.

 

Instead of the 2nd Blessing of the Zephyr in Combat Jumping, I'd put the Kismet +Accuracy IO and in Entangling Arrow, I'd slot an Endoplasm HO instead of just the accuracy.

 

I would also try to put Defender's Bastion into something other than Oil Slick so that the proc will fire more.  You've got a very proc-heavy build, which is not something I'm super familiar with, so I don't want to make any other comments on it.

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

If you're doing Hard Mode, my understanding is a combination of buffs and debuffs is key. None of those three sets have particularly strong buffs, so they might not be the best choices.  That being said, all three of them are excellent for non-HM content.  Did you have a thought on which secondary you wanted to go with?  That would help with build selections.

 

The thing is a lot of people run quite a few Barriers on these HM tf's and their teams usually will consist of some support characters like Colds and other buffers so you should be resist capped and defense soft capped.  What TA does is that it gets around these caps and allows for even more buffing by debuffing the enemy of -50%+ damage (great resist shield) and -25%+ tohitt (great defense shield) by staying proactive and affecting the enemies.  Plus then it also brings so much more to the table in other debuffing.  

 

I'd take a TA and 2 Colds all day on these HM task forces.  

[Psyonico]

15 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

I'd take a TA and 2 Colds all day on these HM task forces.  

 

Sure, but if you're pugging, you're not always going to get 2 colds.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

 

Sure, but if you're pugging, you're not always going to get 2 colds.

 

If you're organizing these things it's good to know what is good to bring.  If you're joining a 4 star ITF and you see a bunch of meleers on your team you might want to tell the lead to reconsider team makeup or make up a reason to be excused.  

 

As someone that organizes Relentless Aeon's frequently if I'm pulling people from LFG my broadcast will look something like "Relentless Aeon lf debuff/dmg w/barrier".  A lot of debuffers come with some shields, either resists or defense, but I'll certainly take a one stop shop character like TA that can provide quasi defense and resist shields without being encumbered by a cap.  Barriers and Rebirth fill a lot of holes, effective debuffs are what are really hard to get through incarnates.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Mezmera

[Uun]

19 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Poison Trap in Poison is more skippable.  It too does a hold (it used to be a sleep, which was basically useless) and it does -recovery.  Since Poison doesn't have any -end powers, this is only useful (IMO) if you are Electric Blast.

Agree that the -end/-rec isn't useful, but I don't consider Poison Trap in Poison to be skippable. It's very effective as a hold and has a very fast animation. I like to jump into the middle of a spawn and drop the trap. It also takes a huge variety of procs and is very effective as a proc bomb. 

[Ankhammon]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:54 PM, Zilean said:

Thats the goal. Its just a bit hard to choose because I see so many knowledgeable people commenting on how to slot it, but when I look at their builds they are vastly different. You have proc monster builds, you have people who 6 slot flash arrow and then a few posts down someone else only 1 slots it. I love that there is a variety to choose from, but it is hard to make a decision.

Couple things to note with TA:

A lot of the powers are auto hit quality. FA, GA, OSA, DA, EMP are all that way.

The debuffs can really get a lot out of Power Boost or Power Build Up. I'd very heavily consider these as options.

 

Here's a TA/Dark I have fiddled with to show you what I mean. I've left Power Boost on so you can see what FA and Blackstar and some of the other values you can push out. It's really a thing of beauty.

NOTE: this is not a finished build. I need to get some more acc in it.

 

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Edited September 10, 2022 by Ankhammon

[WindDemon21]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:21 AM, Zilean said:

Hi peeps! I have always played a debuffer or buffer in MMO's. Ive lurked in the forums for a little bit and I have come across a few builds for TA but I don't really know what is current with the new update out. I have not seen too many poison or trap builds either. My goal is super end game content like hard ITF or anything like it. Would you guys do me the honor of posting your updated builds for any of these sets?

Traps is great, but it's slow for a while, and definitely needs some updates to the powers to make it more usable mob to mob, and ff gen should be like farday cage so you can cast it each mob cause notoriously lags behind.

 

Poison is just crap, if not for the radius of the actual debuffs alone, and the weakness of them besides the initial target you cast them on. Like anything people will try to defend it, but the set SEVERELY needs the trick arrow treatment. Especially as a beginner, (or even like i said in general) this would be my last suggestion for what to play outside of strictly theme or PVP, but definitely not for PVE.)

 

That said, Trick arrow is the current master of overall debuffing at the moment, can't go wrong with it, and it meshes well with most of the attack sets, especially if they are fire or energy based to light the oil slick. If you want some control too, with the sonic revamp, a ta/sonic is VERY good. I also have an uber ta/elec that drains them really easily (acid arrow makes the drains 40% more effective too), and on top of it, my build has 13 heal procs and a slew of regen bonuses. It's quite entertaining lol.

 

Other sets have a mix of usually buffs and maybe a debuff or two. Dark is notably a big debuffer, but focuses on -to hit, and -resist in tar patch, but it also has other goodies like the cone fear (part of debuff too), good heals, a pet that does them too, and -regen for AVs. It's probably the *easiest* starter set to do. Mesh it with sonic too for more control/-resist. Did one on live it was awesome. Rad is also good for stacking -defense which is the one debuff dark can't do, and you can add more -resist with it via the achilles proc, and it has just generally a lot of good damage and aoe too. I did both dark/sonic and dark/rad on live, and were just awesome.

[Uun]

3 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Poison is just crap, if not for the radius of the actual debuffs alone, and the weakness of them besides the initial target you cast them on. Like anything people will try to defend it, but the set SEVERELY needs the trick arrow treatment. Especially as a beginner, (or even like i said in general) this would be my last suggestion for what to play outside of strictly theme or PVP, but definitely not for PVE.)

Poison isn't a set that can debuff an entire spawn in one shot, but it can completely neuter several hard targets at once while keeping the minions and lieutenants at bay with Poison Trap and Venemous Gas. I just took a Poison/Sonic to 50 (and have played an Illusion/Poison for several years) and found it really effective on teams or solo (and surprisingly tanky). It may not be to everyone's taste, but it most certainly isn't crap.

[Psyonico]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

Poison isn't a set that can debuff an entire spawn in one shot, but it can completely neuter several hard targets at once while keeping the minions and lieutenants at bay with Poison Trap and Venemous Gas.

Venomous Gas + Weaken (hitting splashed targets) can do ~22% to-hit debuff without slotting.  With slotting you can get pretty good numbers on that for splashed targets.

 

That combo also provides about 36% -damage to splashed targets.  Really the only thing that poison particularly needs is bigger AoEs for Envenom and Weaken.

[WindDemon21]

34 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Venomous Gas + Weaken (hitting splashed targets) can do ~22% to-hit debuff without slotting.  With slotting you can get pretty good numbers on that for splashed targets.

 

That combo also provides about 36% -damage to splashed targets.  Really the only thing that poison particularly needs is bigger AoEs for Envenom and Weaken.

Except that it is in its current state in those contexts. Especially in the context of those aoes, but even increased to the mob. What they need to do is increase the aoes, but make the bigger debuff the aoe, with half the debuff stackable to the single target.

 

That way it still works as it does now for the hard targets, but the main big debuff can then hit the mob.

 

They also need to change nbreath to a ranged aoe so it can also be used in melee and allow for hold sets.

 

Vgas also is way too late in the set and gets hit by mez way too easily. It would serve much better as a pseudopet that has a fast activation with decent base recharge so you don't have to constantly be in melee for it to be effective.

 

It also has zero self buffs, and that ally rez is honestly kinda out of place in the set. A pbaoe resist/regen buff or toggle would make more sense via emanating "repurposed virus" or something.

 

Poison trap also doesnt do much until its fully slotted and even then just barely. It would be better suited like the traps version, but also should be sooner than tier 8 as well.

 

Even the st mez protection seems particularly out of place to the set as well imo. Would see it repurposed to whatever would go to the tier 8 or 9 slots now, or maybe at least improved as an ally buff and put there to get the others sooner.

Edited September 14, 2022 by WindDemon21

[Disruptor]

I would advise against playing Traps defender unless for thematic purposes.

 

If you want to play Traps go for Controller, Corr or MM. There is almost no benefit a Traps defender will get performance wise over the other 3 options. All of the Traps powers are nearly identical in strength besides some recharge slow on web nade. Especially now that every AT on Homecoming gets 2 options at lvl 1 from their secondary which means ou can skip web nade if you deem it useless at early levels and/or prefer caltrops.

 

 

Controllers primary pairs amazingly well with Traps, also controllers can slot additional procs into Poison Trap. Corruptors will do more damage than a Defender and MM have pets plus a more useful tier 9 in detonator.

[MistressOhm]

Traps works well with MM's, because the player can 'prestage' the pull without worrying about Leroy running in early.   As a Defender set, I'm sure that it'd work decently well as long as something else has aggro so you can run into the scrum and drop a Poison Gas Trap or set up Trip Mine for some big debuff/damage AoE's.  But solo, you're better off staging and pulling rather than running up "here, have a bomb".  

 

And while a lot of folks say Trip Mine isn't that great, set up with an AoE Damage set, and set out multiples in an overlapping pattern (I could get up to five at once on my MM), and the 'pull round the corner' becomes a killing field.  Couple with Caltrops for more 'run randomly into more bombs' effect, too.

 

BUT... Traps is very much a playstyle, and having to set things up makes it Not That Great for speedruns.  People get impatient while you rig the stage.

[Psyonico]

18 hours ago, Disruptor said:

If you want to play Traps go for Controller, Corr or MM. There is almost no benefit a Traps defender will get performance wise over the other 3 options. All of the Traps powers are nearly identical in strength besides some recharge slow on web nade.

 

That's not actually true

Acid Mortar, FFG and Seekers all benefit from defender modifiers.

[Disruptor]

59 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

That's not actually true

Acid Mortar, FFG and Seekers all benefit from defender modifiers.

 

Can you post the differences please?