Scrapper Superior Critical Strikes

[Cold Hard Cash]

Sup people. looked around but did not find anything about Scarpper Superior Crit Strike set and where to place them to get the most out of them. I figure Superior Critical Strikes you would want to slot in either your follow/Fient ect when you start your chains correct? Either that or your finisher? 

[Riverdusk]

48 minutes ago, Cold Hard Cash said:

Sup people. looked around but did not find anything about Scarpper Superior Crit Strike set and where to place them to get the most out of them. I figure Superior Critical Strikes you would want to slot in either your follow/Fient ect when you start your chains correct? Either that or your finisher? 

 

 The proc bonus only lasts 3.25 seconds so you'll only get the crit bonus for the attack right after it or maybe two if you are quick.  I tend to slot it my 2nd hardest hitting attack.  They tend to be long enough recharge to proc more often and it then sets it up to get the extra crit chance on the hardest hitting attack.  Can't say I've studied it extensively to know what is the dps ideal spot.  I'm just going for the big number.

 

But yes, Follow-up and feint should work well for those sets, 

[SomeGuy]

Six slot your T1 attack and slap the entire set there. Then ctrl-click that attack to set it to auto.

 

Just in case, /s

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, SomeGuy said:

Six slot your T1 attack and slap the entire set there. Then ctrl-click that attack to set it to auto.

 

Just in case, /s

 

Dude... that would cripple my DPS.

[Yomo Kimyata]

One of the ways I judge how good a primary/secondary is on scrappers is if there is a good place to put this proc.

 

I look for:

1.  Can I reasonably expect it to go off every time when I activate it?  For this reason I like AoE powers since there are more chances to activate it.  I'd rather have a 70% chance to activate on each of three targets than a 90% chance on just one target, and you should too.

2.  If I am fighting a single target, is there a heavy hitting ST attack I have lined up?

3.  If I am fighting a big mob, is there a heavy hitting AoE attack I have lined up?

 

Don't forget you may have places to put this in your secondary.  For example:  DNA Siphon.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I'd rather have a 70% chance to activate on each of three targets than a 90% chance on just one target, and you should too.

 

Why? I NEED the extra critting against AVs and monsters and Pylons. Rest of the time it's nothing but overkill. So for claws, it goes in followup for FU, Focus, Slash, repeat. For nrg, it goes in TF for ET-long, TF, ET-short, gloom, bs, repeat.

[Yomo Kimyata]

20 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Why? I NEED the extra critting against AVs and monsters and Pylons. Rest of the time it's nothing but overkill. So for claws, it goes in followup for FU, Focus, Slash, repeat. For nrg, it goes in TF for ET-long, TF, ET-short, gloom, bs, repeat.

Better odds of triggering.  ST at 90% means you miss 10% of the time.  3 targets at 70% means you miss 0.3 x 0.3 x 0.3 or 2.7% of the time.

 

I don’t personally go for pylon times, and any AV is usually swimming in activation bait.  But against pure single targets, you will probably have a different system than I will!

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Better odds of triggering.  ST at 90% means you miss 10% of the time.  3 targets at 70% means you miss 0.3 x 0.3 x 0.3 or 2.7% of the time.

 

I don’t personally go for pylon times, and any AV is usually swimming in activation bait.  But against pure single targets, you will probably have a different system than I will!

 

One would generally not use the AOE attack on the Single Target.

 

Also, wouldn't you want to put it in the single target and then use the AOE after it, so the AOE has a higher chance to crit on all the targets?

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

One would generally not use the AOE attack on the Single Target.

 

Also, wouldn't you want to put it in the single target and then use the AOE after it, so the AOE has a higher chance to crit on all the targets?

 

Well, I would say that it depends on the powers in question.  I'd ideally like to put it in a relatively low damage AoE if there is a higher damage AoE on deck.

 

If I'm looking at Stone Melee (and yeah, I'm looking at you, you sweet thang!), I'd want to put it in Fault rather than Tremor.  Both would pretty much guarantee a trigger, but you are going to get more aggregate damage getting the crit on Tremor.  And if you want to use Tremor next on the mobs or Seismic Smash on the AV, up to you.  If you are only a ST scrapper, then I'd totally understand using a different strategy.  In that case a 90% chance of activation on one target is better than a 70% chance on three targets because, well, there aren't three targets.

 

But I guess everyone is going to have a slightly different strategy.  Mine works really well for my playstyle.

[Cold Hard Cash]

Well since I'm DA/RAD my animation on my 3rd hit will absorb the crit. I have 148 recharge so I'll open with my finisher to get the ball rolling. But no matter what 1 of my 4 attacks will miss out no matter where I put it. So it either gonna be my 3rd or 4th hit that misses. Single target or aoe finisher is what I have to decide I guess. Sadly my 3rd chain big hitter is damn near a 3sec animation.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Cold Hard Cash

[Uun]

On my rad melee scrapper I put it in Radioactive Smash.

[SomeGuy]

AOE situations aren't what are likely to stop you in your tracks, high HP ST situations are. This isn't a playstyle preference thing. It's just reality. This doesn't happen much any more, but I have seen more then a few TFs fail at the end cause there wasn't enough DPS for a single AV/GM. Obviously you need a balance, but going all-in on AOE is a really really bad idea unless you only ever do radios or something.

 

Food for thought when picking where you slot it.

[Cold Hard Cash]

13 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

AOE situations aren't what are likely to stop you in your tracks, high HP ST situations are. This isn't a playstyle preference thing. It's just reality. This doesn't happen much any more, but I have seen more then a few TFs fail at the end cause there wasn't enough DPS for a single AV/GM. Obviously you need a balance, but going all-in on AOE is a really really bad idea unless you only ever do radios or something.

 

Food for thought when picking where you slot it.

 

Well the real question is when it procs does it give the skill its slotted in a guaranteed crit on hit? Or does it just proc giving your next 3 secs for the follow up skills to get the 50% chance crit?

[BrandX]

4 hours ago, Cold Hard Cash said:

 

Well the real question is when it procs does it give the skill its slotted in a guaranteed crit on hit? Or does it just proc giving your next 3 secs for the follow up skills to get the 50% chance crit?

 

I was under the assumption that when it activated it was for the next 1 or 2 attacks (or just 1 if the first attack used after it activated crit maybe) if they short enough duration.

 

However, if it lasts 3.25 seconds, I would wonder if there aren't some sets that could pull off 3 attacks in that time.  Claws maybe?

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 minute ago, BrandX said:

 

I was under the assumption that when it activated it was for the next 1 or 2 attacks (or just 1 if the first attack used after it activated crit maybe) if they short enough duration.

 

However, if it lasts 3.25 seconds, I would wonder if there aren't some sets that could pull off 3 attacks in that time.  Claws maybe?

 

I haven't parsed the combat logs (and I'm not gonna!) but I assume that you can get bonus crits off of damage auras as well.

 

Then again, I think some of the combos I use don't fit into the 3.25 second window, so I should probably check into that.  Like Atom Smasher --> Devastating Blow.  Looking at City of Data (all hail uberguy) Atom Smasher has 1.1 seconds of time of animation after effect, and Devastating Blow has 2.2 seconds of animation time before effect.  Missed it by *that* much!

[InvaderStych]

4 hours ago, Cold Hard Cash said:

Well the real question is when it procs does it give the skill its slotted in a guaranteed crit on hit? Or does it just proc giving your next 3 secs for the follow up skills to get the 50% chance crit?

 

Procs all fire at the exact same time; simultaneously with the attack.  Increased crit rate is for subsequent attacks.  I think someone figured out when the timer officially started but that thread is long since buried, probably. I think it was at activation, but "time before effect" might come into play and since Client and Server are only sort of in-sync with each other it can get difficult to accurately measure fractional seconds.

 

The only way a Proc will impact the power in which it fires is if it is a -Res proc and the damage is on a delay like in powers like Savage Leap or Mass Levitate.  In those instances the -Res occurs when the power fires and the delayed damage baked into the power benefits from it.  Burn's exception to this rule and it's multi-dipping procs with patch-magic is fixed in the current Beta.

 

29 minutes ago, BrandX said:

However, if it lasts 3.25 seconds, I would wonder if there aren't some sets that could pull off 3 attacks in that time.  Claws maybe?

 

Claws should be able to; if I remember correctly the buff calculated at activation time.  Pretty sure on Savage I was able to trigger it with Leap and get in MS->VS and then trigger RF just in time to apply the buff there as well.

 

22 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I haven't parsed the combat logs (and I'm not gonna!) but I assume that you can get bonus crits off of damage auras as well.

 

Only in Quills and Irradiated Ground. Auras in Scrapper Secondaries do not Crit, nor do regular attacks like Shield Charge or Ground Zero.  Brimstone is the only ability in a Scrapper Secondary that will currently check for crits.

 

I vaguely remember being told during Page 3 Beta that Brimstone's crit chance should be affected by ATO2, but I'd have no idea how to build a test methodology for this. 😄

[Cold Hard Cash]

3 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I was under the assumption that when it activated it was for the next 1 or 2 attacks (or just 1 if the first attack used after it activated crit maybe) if they short enough duration.

 

However, if it lasts 3.25 seconds, I would wonder if there aren't some sets that could pull off 3 attacks in that time.  Claws maybe?

 

I have Blind Feint, Ablating strike, Vengeful strike and Sweeping strike. Vengeful strike is 2.43 sec so I should not slot it in there or Ablating. I could slot it in Veng to hope to get 50% on Sweeping finisher, but atm I have the set in the finisher and just open with the finisher to get the crit proc, then Feint and Ablating are empowered crits (which technically is my strongest hitter single target anyways), then Venge and Sweep empowered by Feint. So far Ive found it a good blend of single target and aoe dps.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Cold Hard Cash

[Yomo Kimyata]

If I'm reading things right, you want to look at not the total animation time, but the animation time before effect.  Vengeful Strike has a 2.433 sec total animation time, but only 0.467 second time before effect.  So if the CS proc activates on VS, then there is 1.966 seconds of "dead time" in the rest of the VS animation that eats into the 3.25 duration.  So you want the next power to have an animation time before effect of <= 1.284 seconds.  I think that is enough time for any one of the other attacks in DB to trigger, but probably not two.

[SomeGuy]

14 hours ago, Cold Hard Cash said:

 

Well the real question is when it procs does it give the skill its slotted in a guaranteed crit on hit? Or does it just proc giving your next 3 secs for the follow up skills to get the 50% chance crit?

 

Just for the next attacks used in that time window, so that second part you said.

 

It's NEVER a 3.25s time window btw. Every attack has a Animation Time Before Effect. I just brought up Seismic Smash randomly. Something like Midnight Grasp is DRASTICALLY different.

 

 

The Arcana Time is what you should care about for cast time. Animation Time gives a rough idea when you move on to the next attack.

 

So, SS has a AT of 1.716s. The ATBE of SM is .833. You'd substract the ATBE from the AT. So just 1.716-0.833=0.883

 

THIS is the number you now care about. You would subtract this from the duration of the ATO2 proc and that's how much duration you'd have left of the proc to fit attacks in.

 

For SS? You'd have 2.367s left for the duration of the proc. Trust me, this ain't bad. Pretty good comparatively. To compare, Devastating Blow in Rad Melee is 2.51s left and it's REALLY good. You can get, normally, two more attacks off in these windows. In Midnight Grasp you'd have 1.71s left. You'll only get one more attack in this window, unless the one after MG has a really really fast ArcanaTime.

 

But if you want to get in the details of this stuff, the Animation Time isn't what you want. Just cause something's AniTime might only be 1.33 doesn't mean you can start casting the next attack that soon. Look at Moonbeam for example. It has a 1.33s AniTime but a 1.584 ArcanaTime. You aren't going to be able to move to the next attack until the ArcanaTime is complete.

Edited October 7, 2022 by SomeGuy

[Cold Hard Cash]

On 10/7/2022 at 4:15 PM, SomeGuy said:

 

Just for the next attacks used in that time window, so that second part you said.

 

It's NEVER a 3.25s time window btw. Every attack has a Animation Time Before Effect. I just brought up Seismic Smash randomly. Something like Midnight Grasp is DRASTICALLY different.

 

 

The Arcana Time is what you should care about for cast time. Animation Time gives a rough idea when you move on to the next attack.

 

So, SS has a AT of 1.716s. The ATBE of SM is .833. You'd substract the ATBE from the AT. So just 1.716-0.833=0.883

 

THIS is the number you now care about. You would subtract this from the duration of the ATO2 proc and that's how much duration you'd have left of the proc to fit attacks in.

 

For SS? You'd have 2.367s left for the duration of the proc. Trust me, this ain't bad. Pretty good comparatively. To compare, Devastating Blow in Rad Melee is 2.51s left and it's REALLY good. You can get, normally, two more attacks off in these windows. In Midnight Grasp you'd have 1.71s left. You'll only get one more attack in this window, unless the one after MG has a really really fast ArcanaTime.

 

But if you want to get in the details of this stuff, the Animation Time isn't what you want. Just cause something's AniTime might only be 1.33 doesn't mean you can start casting the next attack that soon. Look at Moonbeam for example. It has a 1.33s AniTime but a 1.584 ArcanaTime. You aren't going to be able to move to the next attack until the ArcanaTime is complete.

 

Ahhh ic ic so the ability proc IS designed to get roughly 3 attacks in. Thank you all for the responses!

[Lazarillo]

Curious where people would put the proc in Fiery Melee?

After the update, I'm thinking Cremate, to have a higher chance to crit a boss that's been knocked down and can't do anything about the incoming damage.

[SomeGuy]

10 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

Curious where people would put the proc in Fiery Melee?

After the update, I'm thinking Cremate, to have a higher chance to crit a boss that's been knocked down and can't do anything about the incoming damage.

 

 

 

That's where I had it on Beta. The blank slot is where the -RES proc goes. I don't even take Cremate on FM.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I(9), GldStr-%Dam(11), TchofDth-Dam%(13), Empty(15)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Inexhaustible -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 4: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(5), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(5)
Level 6: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), AdjTrg-Rchg(7), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(7), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(48), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(48), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Adaptation
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(17), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(25)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Evolving Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(27), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(45), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 26: Incinerate -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Dam%(40), GldStr-%Dam(43)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Dmg(29), Obl-Acc/Rchg(29), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFrt-Def(42)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg(33), Hct-Dam%(33), TchofDth-Dam%(33), Empty(34), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(34)
Level 35: Genetic Contamination -- HO:Nucle(A), Arm-Dmg(36), Arm-Dam%(36), Erd-%Dam(36), Obl-%Dam(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- DctWnd-Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(39), DctWnd-Heal(39), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(39), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Zapp -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Dam%(45), Dcm-Build%(46), StnoftheM-Dam%(46), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(47), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(47), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(47), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(49)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(49), Rct-ResDam%(49)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(15), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 14: Double Jump
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 10: Defensive Adaptation
Level 10: Efficient Adaptation
Level 10: Offensive Adaptation
------------

 

 

I was averaging 1:08 with this. Noticeably better ST DPS than anything else I played.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by SomeGuy

[InvaderStych]

6 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

I was averaging 1:08 with this. Noticeably better ST DPS than anything else I played.

 

Sweetness!

 

Have you done a comparison against Fire/<Not Bio>?

 

So many of these runs are done with /Bio that I often wonder how much of the lifting the armor set is doing. Obviously recent changes to FM have made the most difference here.  In general though I see so much /Bio that I do wonder what the differential is against different armors.

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by InvaderStych

[Uun]

Recently slotted Critical Strikes in my new Broadsword/Shield. I normally don't put it in an AoE, but I've been trying it out in Whirling Sword. Holy crap, it goes off almost all the time. Allows me to follow with Head Splitter on a big bad or Slice (wide cone) on a large group. 

[SomeGuy]

3 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Have you done a comparison against Fire/<Not Bio>?

 

 

Nah, I purposely chose /Bio cause that's the secondary I use to compare all the sets. The extra -RES, PBAOE Aura, and +DMG/+TOHIT  is what carries them 😄