Looking for opinions on secondary for Illusion Control Dominator

[VULCAN]

4 hours ago, noogens2 said:

I tried 3 general content end game builds on the test server. All the builds had fold space (my fave power) and skipped both flash and phantasm due to a tight build.  I fought 4/8 difficulty missions with and without bosses depending on the faction but mostly tested on CoT and Council maps.   

1. ill/energy/ice - I wasn't fan.  Energy's AOE is pretty lackluster and mobs tended to scatter because they didn't die quick enough.  Adding Flash back probably would've helped the scatter  but I probably still wouldn't have liked the combo.  This build would probably be better for content that prioritizes taking down single hard targets.
2. ill/sonic/ice - This combo is pretty nice and had decent clear times due all the  -res being thrown around allowing PA to hit harder.  Sonic is a also very solid all around assault set.
3. ill/martial/ice - My fave combo.  People poo poo on martial but it has good synergies with the right primaries and a decent build.  Mob scatter was greatly mitigated by the knockdown of dragon's tail with the slow of caltrops and sleet.  Dragon's tail's knockdown also helps with damage mitigation and frequently procs force feedback to help PA recharge faster.  Out of the three builds, this one was the quickest on average clearing missions.  If all you want to do is AV hunt then this would be the weakest of the three builds.  

 

 

Thank you for your feedback on Martial arts  ;)

 

[SeraphimKensai]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:31 AM, Frosticus said:

ill/sav/ice is just great and really fun. Teleporting around while your mirror images fight along side you is very iconic feeling. It will be my selection for live. 

I came to the same conclusion for my Ill dom. Savage just seems damn near perfect to pair with Illusion. Ice mastery because of sleet.

 

Mine is only lvl 22, as baby agro was slowing me down a bit.

[Ravenwulfe]

10 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Illusion is pretty chaotic. I say lean into it. Take energy, slot entirely for knock-back and disorient. Take teleport target and fold space to get everything back into clusters.

My illusionist is aggressive, the reverse of how it felt playing as a controller and I love it.

[webdeath]

I have an Illusion/Rad started.  Fun Idea is that Rad powers can each use the -resist proc from the Achilles' Heel Debuff proc.   So you get -Def form Rad, -Res from Procs, and then the Psi Damage from Illusion control.  

[Rahabina]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:43 AM, Voltak said:

TOP tier dmg 
Dark assault and lots of utility , the melee and the range all hit hard. 
Fire dmg zero utility 
Energy (Stuns and Knocks)

Honor mention
Psi assault strong dmg and utility 
Earth assault strong dmg fast casting hold. that hits like a nuke and a power boost)

 I went DA on mine

[Voltak]

3 minutes ago, Rahabina said:

 I went DA on mine

 Very good pylon times
Very good utility 

Also fits well thematically 

[Frosticus]

On 10/13/2022 at 9:43 AM, Voltak said:

TOP tier dmg 
Dark assault and lots of utility , the melee and the range all hit hard. 
 

I keep seeing this repeated. 

Dark assault is a good set, but it is square in the middle of assault sets for single target damage under most scenarios (high rech and/or procs).

Doms generally aren't much in the aoe department, but it is middle of the pack there too.

It does offer great utility, has a desirable damage type and gives a fairly usable spot for the +dam proc for those lacking a more suitable place for it.

 

It is somewhere between 4th and 9th out of the 12 sets. 

 

 

[Voltak]

4 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I keep seeing this repeated. 

Dark assault is a good set, but it is square in the middle of assault sets for single target damage under most scenarios (high rech and/or procs).

Doms generally aren't much in the aoe department, but it is middle of the pack there too.

It does offer great utility, has a desirable damage type and gives a fairly usable spot for the +dam proc for those lacking a more suitable place for it.

 

It is somewhere between 4th and 9th out of the 12 sets. 

 

 

 

Where are you getting the corroborating material to put dark assault in mid of all 12 sets ?

Do you have a chart showing all the pylon times for all 12 sets ?

If you have test results showing all 12 and Dark assault is there in the mid area, I can easily buy what. you are saying. 
If you don't then I I can't 

I did some testing

Pylon testing with Dominator
USING ONLY THE ASSAULT/SECONDARY NO PRIMARY POWERS WERE USED

 Oh, and it is important to point out before you read the rest of the data below , that This was just with the secondary. No primary power used like the pets. The instant snipe is amazing here.
Dark Assault+Ice Mastery (Test Server with snipe changes)
Degenerative Core Flawless
Musculature Core Paragon
Ageless Core Epiphany (for endurance)
Perma Domination
Chain:Smite-Midnight Grasp-Gloom-Moon Beam (Gather Shadows-Sleet when up)

Assualt Radial Embodiment (double dmg)
2:20 ~401.72dps
2:21 ~399.78dps

Assault Core Embodiment (+dmg)
2:13 ~416.13dps
2:04 ~437.96dps

The +dmg Dominator proc was in Midnight Grasp.
Pure +dmg Hybrid slot did work a little better than the double hit
Sleet did have both (target aoe) -res procs in it

Edited October 21, 2022 by Voltak

[Xiddo]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:05 AM, TygerDarkstorm said:

So far lots of the beta testers seem to be pairing it with Energy Assault. I went with Savage Assault myself both for a concept, and so far, it feels like they have some good synergy.

Tyger, have you tried this on live yet? I'm really interested in giving Savage a go. I did /energy on Test but I guess I've never really looked at Savage and think it'd be interesting. End discount, more rech AND a heal? Great.

[Seed22]

On 10/19/2022 at 12:05 PM, Ravenwulfe said:

My illusionist is aggressive, the reverse of how it felt playing as a controller and I love it.

I agree!

 

It took a lot of time getting used to, but my ill/psi build is very aggressive! Planning to swap that snipe out for Hoarfrost eventually. One of these days.

[TygerDarkstorm]

5 hours ago, Xiddo said:

Tyger, have you tried this on live yet? I'm really interested in giving Savage a go. I did /energy on Test but I guess I've never really looked at Savage and think it'd be interesting. End discount, more rech AND a heal? Great.

I have created her on live! But she's still only level 6. xD But yeah, I thought Savage has some really nice synergies for Illusion since Ill loves that recharge. I was leveling organically on beta too, so I'm not sure how it performs at the mid to high end levels yet.

[Xiddo]

2 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I have created her on live! But she's still only level 6. xD But yeah, I thought Savage has some really nice synergies for Illusion since Ill loves that recharge. I was leveling organically on beta too, so I'm not sure how it performs at the mid to high end levels yet.

aaaah sweet. Fair play. I’m toying between dark and savage now. Can’t decide!!!

[Frosticus]

5 hours ago, Xiddo said:

Tyger, have you tried this on live yet? I'm really interested in giving Savage a go. I did /energy on Test but I guess I've never really looked at Savage and think it'd be interesting. End discount, more rech AND a heal? Great.

It works really well. The boost to recharge is awesome while leveling. Your final build may or may not need to +rech from blood stacks, but the end discount applies to all powers which can be really nice as you are unlikely to have much end reduction in PA.

 

Sav is also extremely endurance friendly even without blood given the dpa of its attacks. Rivaling even fiery.

It is almost scary how fast a combo like ill/energy (which is awesome btw) can tank their blue bar. 

 

looking at their best melee*+best ranged of the top 3 damage sets:

* a disservice to fire, but apples to apples

 

Blaze+incinerate produces 244-303.4 (dot chance)(w/ avg 275 base damage) or 11.1-13.8 (avg 12.5) damage/end* 

*fiery can improve this efficiency with long lasting fiery embrace (30 sec of +85% fire damage)

TF+powerburst (w/energy focus) produces 462 base damage or 13.7 damage/end

Viscous + Hawk produces 331-453 (dot chance & full blood) (w/ avg 387 damage) or 15.2 to 20.6 (avg 17.6) damage/end*

*didn't include any blood discount to endurance

 

[Frosticus]

21 hours ago, Voltak said:

 

Where are you getting the corroborating material to put dark assault in mid of all 12 sets ?

Do you have a chart showing all the pylon times for all 12 sets ?

Assualt Radial Embodiment (double dmg)
2:20 ~401.72dps
2:21 ~399.78dps

Assault Core Embodiment (+dmg)
2:13 ~416.13dps
2:04 ~437.96dps

The +dmg Dominator proc was in Midnight Grasp.
Pure +dmg Hybrid slot did work a little better than the double hit
Sleet did have both (target aoe) -res procs in it

I don't know what to tell you.

Thanks to test server I already know some of the combos in this very thread are going to see 600-700 dps (without -res procs, phantasm, or hybrid).

I'm not sure how much damage you think PA contributes?

*(its about ~130 dps on an ill/x/ice). x = not sonic assault

 

 

[Xiddo]

2 hours ago, Frosticus said:

 

It is almost scary how fast a combo like ill/energy (which is awesome btw) can tank their blue bar. 

 

Aye this is what I found on live. Really slowed me down in the end. I was also using whirling hands too much which I think in hindsight isn’t great.

I’ve not used /dark or /savage on a dom before. Part of me is leaning to dark so I have an immob in MG, quicker recharging heal, and more -tohit. However I really wanna give the benefits of savage a try.

 

I guess with the power order changes it won’t take much to try both and feel them at fairly fleshed out levels.

[Ravenwulfe]

12 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I agree!

 

It took a lot of time getting used to, but my ill/psi build is very aggressive! Planning to swap that snipe out for Hoarfrost eventually. One of these days.

I am probably going to get rid of the phantasm. I got some other things I could slot in instead and save actual slotting for more things as much as the phantasm could get me a few things I can fix it with the phantom army honestly which would be more reliable anyways. I found my shadow wolf more reliable and sturdy sadly.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Ravenwulfe

[Voltak]

18 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I don't know what to tell you.

Thanks to test server I already know some of the combos in this very thread are going to see 600-700 dps (without -res procs, phantasm, or hybrid).

I'm not sure how much damage you think PA contributes?

*(its about ~130 dps on an ill/x/ice). x = not sonic assault

 

 

I am giving you numbers concerning Dark Assault

The test was done without using any of the primary skills or powers

So It is regardless of primary. 

What test results do you have that establish Dark Assault in the mid range rankings , among the 12 assault sets?

THis is your statement 

"Dark assault is a good set, but it is square in the middle of assault sets for single target damage"

Do you have results that we can use to compare and see where dark places here ? 

If you don't have that, then that would be good to know. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Voltak

[Crysis]

I -reeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllllyyyyyy- am missing MIDS right about now.  I pulled up my Ice/Savage Dom and my Dark/Dark Dom and my Ill/Storm 'troller and cobbled together a handwritten build for an Ill/Dark and an Ill/Savage.  Right now the Ill/Savage 'feels' better to me...especially with taking the Teleport pool for Combat Teleport and Fold Space.  Just hopping all over the battlefield while my "Mirror Images" do their thing makes me feel very much like "Nightcrawler" but with some extra tricks.  

 

But I really miss playing without having a build plan already in mind.  I sense several respecs for this alt until I get it to where I want it.

 

Ill/Dark is good too, but I'm already thinking it will play second fiddle to Ill/Savage.

[Ravenwulfe]

38 minutes ago, Crysis said:

I -reeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllllyyyyyy- am missing MIDS right about now.  I pulled up my Ice/Savage Dom and my Dark/Dark Dom and my Ill/Storm 'troller and cobbled together a handwritten build for an Ill/Dark and an Ill/Savage.  Right now the Ill/Savage 'feels' better to me...especially with taking the Teleport pool for Combat Teleport and Fold Space.  Just hopping all over the battlefield while my "Mirror Images" do their thing makes me feel very much like "Nightcrawler" but with some extra tricks.  

 

But I really miss playing without having a build plan already in mind.  I sense several respecs for this alt until I get it to where I want it.

 

Ill/Dark is good too, but I'm already thinking it will play second fiddle to Ill/Savage.

Yea. Felt like Mid's had symphony within a day or two of page 4 but now yea. My Ill/Fiery I have ideas, but I just don't know how to implement them the best way and of course not being able to figure out the modding at a glance is a long process as well. I have an idea and of course one of the things I think I will be doing is dropping the phantom because he's too damn squishy compared to even the umbral beast. I think I can easily perma dom the ill dom to but yea I need to be able to look at the data stuff.

[Lazarillo]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:22 PM, Crysis said:

I -reeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllllyyyyyy- am missing MIDS right about now. 

As a note, in terms of overall powers and at least what can be slotted and such, Dark Control is almost identical to Illusion.  I used that to get a pretty solid plan for my Illusion/Dark.

[Frosticus]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

Five runs on Ill/Fire/Ice Dom T4 Intuition Radial / Degen Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial / T2 Pyro Core

 

Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

1:12

1:04

1:05

1:15

1:09

 

Average 1:09

 

On 10/21/2022 at 2:24 PM, Frosticus said:

Thanks to test server I already know some of the combos in this very thread are going to see 600-700 dps (without -res procs, phantasm, or hybrid).

Don't know his build, but even if he had phant, hybrid and offense amp going that still hits the mark factoring those out.

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm enjoying the Illusion/Savage/Ice I said I would make. It's lvl 50 now with maybe a .8 bil influence build but rocking perma hasten/pa. With the recharge stacks I kid you not i managed to stack Domination a couple times in a Position TF, very tight window to get it off, but that was a pretty epic moment.

 

I need to get incarnates/accolades done still, I haven't really started with them just yet, was taking it pretty slow leveling the character up as I've been having some baby agro, and also getting some weird fps drops on the GPU so I'm doing some troubleshooting.

 

Ill/savage though feels really good. I know dark assault is good as well (I have that paired with my symphony Domi). The recharge bonuses helped me do a little proc slotting as well.

 

Im kinda curious how sonic assault is pairing with Illusion, but I'll wait awhile before I roll another.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 10/30/2022 at 2:06 PM, SeraphimKensai said:

Im kinda curious how sonic assault is pairing with Illusion

 

I tinkered with this a bit tonight. Tried a few things like including teleport pool, not including sleet, etc.  All solo, doing incarnate missions at various difficulties on beta.  I came away with two major observations:

 

1) Sonic lacks any synergies for sustainment. No recharge or endurance tools to help it with the two areas Doms need to really pay attention to. This is compounded a bit by Sonic's high procability (incentiving away from set bonuses for recovery and recharge) and running two extra toggles you otherwise might not (S. Invis and Disruption Aura).

 

2) On the flip side there's a lot of synergies with raw damage output. Sleet felt less necessary here but with it stacked onto the Aura, with Decoys out and heavily proc'd sonic melee attacks going off, you're gonna roar.

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

2 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

1) Sonic lacks any synergies for sustainment. No recharge or endurance tools to help it with the two areas Doms need to really pay attention to.

 

2) On the flip side there's a lot of synergies with raw damage output. Sleet felt less necessary here but with it stacked onto the Aura, with Decoys out and heavily proc'd sonic melee attacks going off, you're gonna roar.

 

 

I think sleet is damn near necessary on all Dominators, almost how I feel about the 120 sec recharge Soul Drain on most Corruptors.

 

Is using a recovery base buff or recovery serum enough to cover your end when not being refilled from popping Domination?

 

Will that cover you until Incarnates?

 

Are you using Agility, Nerve, or Musculature for Alpha? Ageless Core/Radial, or say Barrier for Destiny? Assault or Support for Hybrid?

[twozerofoxtrot]

6 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Is using a recovery base buff or recovery serum enough to cover your end when not being refilled from popping Domination?

 

Will that cover you until Incarnates?

 

Probably. I hadn't tested these. I was mainlining blues for the first part, before I slotted incarnates. TBH If I were leveling this setup I'd just stick to Villain for Frenzy. 

 

6 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Are you using Agility, Nerve, or Musculature for Alpha? Ageless Core/Radial, or say Barrier for Destiny? Assault or Support for Hybrid?

 

I slowly started adding stuff as I went along.  Landed on Musc Radial for the Alpha and only kept that slotted for a few missions.

Then Ageless Radial Trivialized the concern, like it does any build with these shortfalls.

 

6 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I think sleet is damn near necessary on all Dominators

 

Go for it then. Samish builds bore me to tears so I was looking for a way out.