Ice Armor Questions

Owenknowone · November 19, 2022

I have been playing around with mids and I'm not necessarily a mid / max guy but I have focused on different aspects of multiple builds. A few questions for those who run ice. Is there a benefit to focusing on regen and health? I can get some pretty good numbers regarding resists so I thought maybe a more balance approach or go all in on healing / regen. Thoughts?

Psyonico · November 19, 2022

Ice is primarily a defense set, so your first priority should be to cap as much defense as possible.

I've never thought about Regen, but now that your mention it, extra regeneration would be a good combo with hoarfrost.

Owenknowone · November 20, 2022

Im pulling plus 600% regen. Not sure if thats a good number versus reversing course and re-focusing on def/resists.

BrandX · November 21, 2022

It's been awhile since I ran an Ice Tanker, however, I would think Defense first, after that, maybe Regen can beat out Resist or equal it, in terms of what to chase after. You should be, I believe maxing out HP after all. Tanker Proc will give a nice 6-12% Resist as well.

Sir Myshkin · November 21, 2022

1 hour ago, Owenknowone said:

Im pulling plus 600% regen. Not sure if thats a good number versus reversing course and re-focusing on def/resists.

What are you leaning on to get there? Ice Armor doesn't pack any supportive regen boosting, and there really isn't a resource for that in the Melee sets, I could see the inclusion of Physical Perfection adding a bit, and there are a couple of Regen boosting IO's, but unless you really sacrificed all your slotting towards Regen bonuses, I'm not capturing what got you to 600%.

It is possible to make Regen a survival tool, but it typically needs a support heal to patch in between which Ice lacks. Generally when you look to build up an armor set you want to start focusing on its primary function (either Defense or Resistance) and then once that it covered, moved to the next item (the opposite of what you started with), before looking at the possibility of packing in any further HP/Regen into a build.

PLVRIZR · November 21, 2022

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

What are you leaning on to get there? Ice Armor doesn't pack any supportive regen boosting, and there really isn't a resource for that in the Melee sets, I could see the inclusion of Physical Perfection adding a bit, and there are a couple of Regen boosting IO's, but unless you really sacrificed all your slotting towards Regen bonuses, I'm not capturing what got you to 600%.

Melee Core Incarnate, most likely. Raises my Ice/Stone Melee from 196% to 482% (with one mob). Saturated (with 10) it's 615%...

Xandyr · November 22, 2022

22 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

Melee Core Incarnate, most likely. Raises my Ice/Stone Melee from 196% to 482% (with one mob). Saturated (with 10) it's 615%...

Has to be. My Wp/Staff tank only regens 799% with just 1 mob fueling RttC, with NO incarnate powers.

This has always been a gripe of mine....someone will post a build and be all like "I finally got capped Defenses AND resists!" When come to find out, they've got an Accolade power (or 2) turned on, along with Rune of Protection and lord knows what else. When I build my tanks, I build them with all "sliders" set to 1, and with no Incarnate powers turned on, or any "gimmick" powers turned on. Way I see it, you can't ALWAYS have your Incarnate powers on, RoP always on, etc etc. I want to see what my baseline is. THEN I can try to improve with slotting/IO set bonuses. And finally look at Incarnates and whatnot, just as icing on the cake or for an "oh $#@! moment".

Owenknowone · November 22, 2022

Ok what I focused on what sets that offer regen/end/+hp. To be clear I never claimed I had maxed out def/res. To the contrary they are most likely suffering. Once I get home I will post the build with the regen.

Xandyr · November 22, 2022

2 hours ago, Owenknowone said:

Ok what I focused on what sets that offer regen/end/+hp. To be clear I never claimed I had maxed out def/res. To the contrary they are most likely suffering. Once I get home I will post the build with the regen.

I'm not saying that you said "I have capped defenses/resists". Perhaps you misunderstood me. My gripe is that a lot of folks will post a build claiming it's the best thing since sliced bread. Only to find out when you open their build, they have every "slider" (Invulnerability, RttC, etc) turned all the way up, have BU/Gaussian's Proc activated, every incarnate power turned on, etc etc. And continue to claim that it's the best build. As I said, when I build mine, I have "sliders" turned to 1, no BU/Gaussian's proc enabled, no temp/incarnate powers turned on, etc etc. In my opinion, this is more accurate to how the toon will perform....because you can't ALWAYS have all your temp powers/incarnate powers activated, etc etc. Now...I'll get off that high horse....

If you truly have a regen rate of over 600% (with no temp/incarnate/etc), then I am genuinely intrigued. My WP/Staff tank (which I focused on max HP/+Regen), only regens 799% with just 1 mob in range of RttC. I'd like to see that build.

-X

Owenknowone · November 23, 2022

I totally understand where your coming from. And I will double check. When I use mids I am constantly going back and forth messing around to see what kind of numbers I get for kicks and giggles. I team mostly and usually I am not too concerned about min/max. No ill will or shade thrown. Im sure there was something on or in effect that I didn't account for.

That being said, I guess my question was do I go for regen and neglect def/res?

Edited November 23, 2022 by Owenknowone

Xandyr · November 23, 2022

All good.

I have 1 ice tanker. I focused on making sure I had capped S/l/f/c/e/ne defense. Then tried to squeeze in resists. Oh , and recharge to get hoarfrost back quicker.

Psyonico · November 23, 2022

I'd say let's see your build so we can poke holes in it. No use just going off of vague ideas.

JasperStone · November 23, 2022

One of my mains is a Ice/Ice/Ice tanker, so I may have different sets slotted since I did not go Physical Perfection

I focused on defense first

Healing second

Regen third

Will have to recheck in mids ...been going thru a bit of altitis

Owenknowone · November 23, 2022

Ok, here is my build. I have played around with many options. It seems grabbing def is the most difficult. I believe everything is turned off that would skew the numbers.

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

AVALNCH_4.0: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor

(A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
(3) Shield Wall - Defense
(3) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance

Level 1: Defensive Sweep

(A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage
(5) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge
(5) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(7) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(7) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(9) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All)

Level 2: Chilling Embrace

(A) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Slow
(9) Pacing of the Turtle - Damage/Slow
(11) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Endurance
(11) Pacing of the Turtle - Range/Slow
(13) Pacing of the Turtle - Endurance/Recharge/Slow
(13) Pacing of the Turtle - Chance of -Recharge

Level 4: Titan Sweep

(A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage
(15) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime
(15) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(17) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(17) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(19) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb

Level 6: Hoarfrost

(A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
(19) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
(21) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
(21) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
(23) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
(46) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

Level 8: Mystic Flight

(A) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
(23) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
(25) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 10: Wet Ice

(A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 12: Permafrost

(A) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance

Level 14: Icicles

(A) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage
(25) Superior Avalanche - Damage/Endurance
(27) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(27) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(29) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(29) Superior Avalanche - Recharge/Chance for Knockdown

Level 16: Taunt

(A) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate

Level 18: Glacial Armor

(A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(31) Red Fortune - Defense
(31) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge

Level 20: Kick

(A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 22: Tough

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
(31) Gladiator's Armor - End/Resist
(33) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance/Rech/End
(48) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance

Level 24: Weave

(A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(33) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
(33) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge

Level 26: Energy Absorption

(A) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
(34) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
(34) Red Fortune - Defense
(34) Power Transfer - Damage/Accuracy/Recharge/Endurance
(36) Power Transfer - Damage/Recharge
(36) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self

Level 28: Spirit Ward

(A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance

Level 30: Rend Armor

(A) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
(36) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
(37) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(37) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(37) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
(39) Superior Blistering Cold - Recharge/Chance for Hold

Level 32: Hibernate

(A) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
(39) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge

Level 35: Rune of Protection

(A) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
(39) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
(40) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(40) Aegis - Resistance

Level 38: Whirling Smash

(A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
(40) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate
(42) Multi-Strike - Damage/Recharge
(42) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance
(42) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(43) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 41: Arc of Destruction

(A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
(43) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
(43) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
(45) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Range
(45) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Recharge
(45) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Recharge/Range

Level 44: Focused Accuracy

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 47: Physical Perfection

(A) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
(47) Power Transfer - EndMod
(47) Power Transfer - Damage/EndMod
(47) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
(48) Numina's Convalesence - Heal
(48) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance

Level 49: Infiltration

(A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 1: Gauntlet

Level 1: Brawl Edited November 23, 2022 by Owenknowone

PLVRIZR · November 23, 2022

3 hours ago, Owenknowone said:

Ok, here is my build.

AVALNCH_4.0: Level 50 Magic Tanker

Honored!

You're going to have to change the name, in-game, though 😆

Warboss · November 23, 2022

1 hour ago, PLVRIZR said:

You're going to have to change the name, in-game, though 😆

Like "FRZNAVALNCH"?

Owenknowone · November 23, 2022

2 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

Honored!

You're going to have to change the name, in-game, though 😆

LoL yes, his name is Shrug. I failed to change it in mods.

Xandyr · November 24, 2022

Admittedly, I've only played TW once. And hated it. It just felt too slow for me.

Anyway...those are some good numbers. I threw this build together fairly quickly.

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- Ksm-ToHit+(A)
Level 1: Crushing Blow -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Acc/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Hct-Dmg(46)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Mrc-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mrc-Heal/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(11), Mrc-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(A), PcnoftheT-Acc/EndRdx(5)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Icicles -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(13), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(13), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(17), GldArm-End/Res(43), StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(43)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(19), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 20: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(21), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(21), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 22: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(23), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(29), EnrMnp-EndMod/Rchg(45), EnrMnp-EndMod(46)
Level 24: Rend Armor -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(25), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(25), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 28: Whirling Smash -- SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 30: Arc of Destruction -- SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(31), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(33)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33), ShlWal-Def(34), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 35: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(36), GssSynFr--ToHit(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Build%(37)
Level 38: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(39), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Laser Beam Eyes -- MlsFur-Acc/Dmg(A), MlsFur-Dmg/EndRdx(42), MlsFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), PrfShf-End%(45)
Level 47: Build Momentum -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(48), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal(3), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11), NmnCnv-Heal(42)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(45), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(50)
Level 14: Double Jump
------------

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Sir Myshkin · November 24, 2022

15 hours ago, Owenknowone said:

Ok, here is my build.

Ah, kay, now we see! Getting defense into Ice Armor isn't tricky, it actually has several different paths that are very flexible you can take advantage of.

Here is an Ice/Stone build for you to work off of, it should allow you to translate your build pretty much one-to-one for the Melee set, and you'll be freely flexible to choose an Epic. Ice doesn't need extra padding from Physical Perfection, so get something else with merit like some control to help manage the field. I noticed you grabbed Infiltration, stealth isn't exactly a good power for Tankers since it's counter intuitive to Gauntlet; you're a threat magnet!

The best focus for Ice is getting Smashing, Lethal, Energy, and Negative defense up, maybe pad your psionic resistance if you've got the inclination. You'll have impregnable cold resistance so no need to really worry about cold defense, leaving fire you're really only major "weakness", but there's not much you'll face in the game that's exclusively fire so this isn't such a big deal. Energy Absorption can double stack, and can hit 10 targets each time making it possible for you to pad your fire defense well enough anyway, plus any floating team buffs, meaning this won't ever really be a concern.

Spoiler

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This is also exclusive of Incarnate abilities, so you're totally free to choose whatever you want there as well!

Edited November 24, 2022 by Sir Myshkin

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

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