fixed Impassioned Serenade bugged, not confusing

[WindDemon21]

5 hours ago, aethereal said:

The confuse being a separate redirect effect of the power is sketchy.  Why is it coded like that?  I'm pretty sure that's why there's a second, separate LoS check for just the confuse part of the power that can result in "no" when the main LoS check is "yes." I wouldn't be surprised if there was other weird behavior due to the redirect.

 

What's the desired behavior that we get from having it be a redirect instead of a straightforward effect of the power?

I mean I'm pretty sure it's NOT supposed to work like that. It's just one of the bugs happening.

[aethereal]

19 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

I mean I'm pretty sure it's NOT supposed to work like that. It's just one of the bugs happening.

No, so...

 

The confuse portion of Impassioned Serenade is coded onto a separate power that Impassioned Serenade redirects to, instead of being a straightforward effect of Impassioned Serenade.  I think that the second LoS is a result of that, and yes, I agree it's a bug (and could probably be fixed by making the redirect power not require LoS).  But my question is, why is there a redirect in the first place?  Other Symphony Control powers don't redirect.  Other confuse powers don't redirect.  I assume that there's something that they're trying to accomplish with it being a redirect at all, but I don't understand what it is.  Maybe @Bopper can see something about how it works that makes the redirect useful/necessary?

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_control.symphony_control.impassioned_serenade&at=controller

[Wavicle]

not completely sure, as coding and the details of CoD are a mystery to me, but I think it may have to do with whatever tech allows the DoT to be of variable length depending on the Confuse duration.

[csr]

58 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

not completely sure, as coding and the details of CoD are a mystery to me, but I think it may have to do with whatever tech allows the DoT to be of variable length depending on the Confuse duration.

The DoT doesn't actually change in length.  It's just that the damage doesn't apply unless the target has been Confused for at least 1s prior to the DoT tick and hasn't been Slept for that period.  Those two components are Requires and Suppresses tags on the DoT.  They shouldn't affect the Confuse component in any way.

 

The Confuse is done by a redirect ("Execute Power" in CoD2).  That's different than other powers.  Even the Symph Sleep doesn't do that.  If there's something odd going on (I haven't been able to reproduce the bug), then that's where I'd start looking.

Edited December 14, 2022 by csr

[WindDemon21]

25 minutes ago, csr said:

It's just that the damage doesn't apply unless the target has been Confused for at least 1s prior to the DoT tick and hasn't been Slept for that period.

Also, unlike the cone stun that stops the dot if they're slept, the confuse doesn't list that flag. It should still go on even if you use the sleep.

[csr]

16 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Also, unlike the cone stun that stops the dot if they're slept, the confuse doesn't list that flag. It should still go on even if you use the sleep.

 

It is listed for both Controllers and Dominators.  Oddly, it's a 1s "Requires" and "Suppressed" window instead of the 0.1s on the Stun.

[Bopper]

On 12/14/2022 at 7:49 AM, aethereal said:

No, so...

 

The confuse portion of Impassioned Serenade is coded onto a separate power that Impassioned Serenade redirects to, instead of being a straightforward effect of Impassioned Serenade.  I think that the second LoS is a result of that, and yes, I agree it's a bug (and could probably be fixed by making the redirect power not require LoS).  But my question is, why is there a redirect in the first place?  Other Symphony Control powers don't redirect.  Other confuse powers don't redirect.  I assume that there's something that they're trying to accomplish with it being a redirect at all, but I don't understand what it is.  Maybe @Bopper can see something about how it works that makes the redirect useful/necessary?

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_control.symphony_control.impassioned_serenade&at=controller

I agree, the LOS check on the execute confuse power should be removed. Based on all other info in the power (1000' range, auto-hit) it seems the intent is for the effect to always fire and having a LOS requirement would limit that. Odds are, it was a copy/paste of the main power and that field was overlooked during cleanup.

 

As for the reason for having an execute power, that is to ensure a mob notify. Without it, you could hit the target successfully and it would not notify the enemies around the target (a miss would notify regardless). So the damage is done upfront to ensure the notify happens, then the confuse is applied if the target was hit.

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

I agree, the LOS check on the execute confuse power should be removed. Based on all other info in the power (1000' range, auto-hit) it seems the intent is for the effect to always fire and having a LOS requirement would limit that. Odds are, it was a copy/paste of the main power and that field was overlooked during cleanup.

 

As for the reason for having an execute power, that is to ensure a mob notify. Without it, you could hit the target successfully and it would not notify the enemies around the target (a miss would notify regardless). So the damage is done upfront to ensure the notify happens, then the confuse is applied if the target was hit.

Right, all is really weird how it's coded. I think regardless, what we have already uncovered to be odd/bugs on the power, fixing that, would probably fix any other intermittent issue with the confuse not working per the videos i've posted. If it helps too,

 

i've noticed that in combat, (i think but didn't pay specific attention cause only looking at initial hits of it) that when they were confused before, it wore off, then you reconfused, that they would be hit with 2-3 instances of the DOT at once. That may also somehow play a role in this weird bug/behavior. Obviously I don't mind that little extra damage up front, but just something else i've noticed that may be impacting these bugs per spaghetti code.

[WindDemon21]

21 hours ago, csr said:

 

It is listed for both Controllers and Dominators.  Oddly, it's a 1s "Requires" and "Suppressed" window instead of the 0.1s on the Stun.

It doesn't list that in game. If this is how it works it  should definitely be listed on the power, but  that's fine if it's meant to work like that of course, it should just say that though.

 

Edit, wrong picture, updated pictures. Notice it says "when target is awake, for CC, but not for IS. It should state that in the description as well for newer players who dont know/know how to understand that in the detailed info.

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by WindDemon21

[aethereal]

4 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

i've noticed that in combat, (i think but didn't pay specific attention cause only looking at initial hits of it) that when they were confused before, it wore off, then you reconfused, that they would be hit with 2-3 instances of the DOT at once. That may also somehow play a role in this weird bug/behavior. Obviously I don't mind that little extra damage up front, but just something else i've noticed that may be impacting these bugs per spaghetti code.

 

This is almost pretty easily explicable, with a huge caveat.  The way that the power accomplishes the "DoT for up to 30 seconds while confused" is it gives a 30 second DoT that suppresses if you're not confused.  But the power still ticks on.  So if you are confused, then unconfused, then confused again before 30 seconds is up, you'll start getting damage from the original DoT again.  (This would happen even if you were confused from some other source).

 

So what's happening is:

 

T=0:  You hit them with impassioned serenade.  They start getting DoT
T=10 or so:  The confuse wears off, and they stop taking damage.

T=20 or so:  You hit them with another impassioned serenade.  Now they take damage from the second impassioned serenade's DoT and the first impassioned serenade's DoT.

EXCEPT:  The DoT is marked not to stack with itself.  It's supposed to replace existing effect, not apply a second DoT.  Conceivable that that's failing to work somehow?

[csr]

4 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

It doesn't list that in game. If this is how it works it  should definitely be listed on the power, but  that's fine if it's meant to work like that of course, it should just say that though.

 

Edit, wrong picture, updated pictures. Notice it says "when target is awake, for CC, but not for IS. It should state that in the description as well for newer players who dont know/know how to understand that in the detailed info.

 

 

Unfortunately the Detailed Info isn't always accurate or complete.  On City of Data 2.0 (which is much more reliable) Impassioned Serenade is listed as Suppressing when the target is slept.

 

I'll test it here momentarily...

... yep, applying Enfeebling Lullaby stops the DoT from Impassioned Serenade, just as CoD2 would suggest.

 

Confounding Chant's DoT breaks the Sleep from EF even when EF is applied after CC.  That's despite CC having the Suppress tag as well.  However, in the case of Confounding Chant the Suppress window is 0.1s instead of the 1s on Impassioned Serenade.

[csr]

7 hours ago, Bopper said:

I agree, the LOS check on the execute confuse power should be removed. Based on all other info in the power (1000' range, auto-hit) it seems the intent is for the effect to always fire and having a LOS requirement would limit that. Odds are, it was a copy/paste of the main power and that field was overlooked during cleanup.

 

As for the reason for having an execute power, that is to ensure a mob notify. Without it, you could hit the target successfully and it would not notify the enemies around the target (a miss would notify regardless). So the damage is done upfront to ensure the notify happens, then the confuse is applied if the target was hit.

 

Hmmm...  I don't understand that explanation.  I thought the "Always" entry in the Notify field in the main power handled that.  Perhaps the main power Notify entry should be "Never" and the Execute would then Notify only on a hit?

 

Anyway... it does raise one general question regarding Executes in my mind:  Does having an Accuracy entry (1.2 in this case) on an Execute mean that it makes a 2nd ToHit check for the Execute itself?

[WindDemon21]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

EXCEPT:  The DoT is marked not to stack with itself.  It's supposed to replace existing effect, not apply a second DoT.  Conceivable that that's failing to work somehow?

I forgot to check that but really? That seems really bad cause the initial damage and DoT is already pretty low. If it doesn't stack then the damage from is is honestly in need of a bump too anyway. Are they really worried outside of avs of stacking the super low dot??!? What about the pets IS?

 

I noticed not seeing extra but I've seen the DoT just not show on st immobilizes too so thought that was just what was happening. Honestly if it is not stacking the dot though, the powers damage is just really odd to begin with then and really should have a tweak to bump it up, cause with 8s rech its not hard to stack, but without stacking the dot it's both "necessary and pointless" to try to slot/use it as a damage power, cause you cant use it in a chain cause the damage is too low, and otherwise not used enough to bother slotting for damage at the same time.

 

This really results in a tweak needed, just letting the dot stack would be what made sense in the first place. Again, are they REALLY that worried about such a tiny dot stacking over the course of a 30s fight where most other ATs would just kill the target in that time anyway? And sure, maybe a small bump it would give in an AV fight, but not more than other sets like illusion, fire, stone etc who actually have pets and other skills to make up that damage anyway.

Edited December 16, 2022 by WindDemon21

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, csr said:

 

Hmmm...  I don't understand that explanation.  I thought the "Always" entry in the Notify field in the main power handled that.  Perhaps the main power Notify entry should be "Never" and the Execute would then Notify only on a hit?

 

Anyway... it does raise one general question regarding Executes in my mind:  Does having an Accuracy entry (1.2 in this case) on an Execute mean that it makes a 2nd ToHit check for the Execute itself?

1) It is due to how Confuse works (i.e. coded). Even with the power set to Always Notify, the Confuse would force the notify to not happen. I'd have to dig, but I'm pretty sure early on in beta the power was set up that way originally and it was reported as a bug when the notify didn't occur.

 

2) I can't think of a power that uses an execute power with each one not being set to Auto-Hit. If there were, I'd test it to see what happens with certainty. But my hunch is both would have a hit roll if both are not auto-hit. Of course in this case, the executed Confuse is auto-hit.

[aethereal]

Here's my shot-in-the-dark, untested hypothesis for the inconsistent behavior that @WindDemon21 is seeing: Impassioned Serenade executes its confuse after a 0.25 second delay.  I'm not aware of other redirects that redirect after a delay, and I wonder if, in addition to the LoS issue, there may be circumstances where the redirected power gets preempted by another power that might execute in the same tick as it.

 

If that is the issue, it might be better to put the delay on the effect group within the redirected power (so the redirect happens immediately, but the effect of the redirected power has a 0.25 second delay on it).

Edited December 16, 2022 by aethereal

[WindDemon21]

10 hours ago, aethereal said:

Here's my shot-in-the-dark, untested hypothesis for the inconsistent behavior that @WindDemon21 is seeing: Impassioned Serenade executes its confuse after a 0.25 second delay.  I'm not aware of other redirects that redirect after a delay, and I wonder if, in addition to the LoS issue, there may be circumstances where the redirected power gets preempted by another power that might execute in the same tick as it.

 

If that is the issue, it might be better to put the delay on the effect group within the redirected power (so the redirect happens immediately, but the effect of the redirected power has a 0.25 second delay on it).

I think something may be bugging on that .25s window sure, but I can say with certainty and in the videos that another power isn't hitting in that moment.

 

I think the fear re-proc may at times like that one with the 5 green ink men, but other times there arent powers hitting/proccing, especially those times it's happened when starting a mob with it or that 5-6 stacking of the skull boss in PP. (That has been the hardest one to recreate, I'd have to check when I made the character to see if that one bug fixed with page 5 may have fixed that one. I noticed on other bosses I'd spam the confuse and they still wouldn't confuse but I don't think I've seen that lately unless it's the rare doesn't work "one" time while doing so)

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

(That has been the hardest one to recreate, I'd have to check when I made the character to see if that one bug fixed with page 5 may have fixed that one. I noticed on other bosses I'd spam the confuse and they still wouldn't confuse but I don't think I've seen that lately unless it's the rare doesn't work "one" time while doing so)

Made the toon in August, and that patch was in October so I'm going to say/guess that whatever caused THAT issue where even stacking it wasn't confusing was probably fixed unless I see it happen again.

 

Since that was the most extraneous case of the confuse not working, the rest would most notably in my perception seem to be that the confuse is rolling on a separate to hit check than the initial damage does. I have never had it confuse WITHOUT doing the damage though. So it seems that the damage checks first, THEN the confuse checks on a separate to hit roll in that .25 second delay I think. That seems to be the most logical case of where the bug is happening.

 

Albeit it could be perception, but when trying to test the bug, it did seem to happen LESS when he had extra tactics/forge on him ie missed less with the confuse (which doesn't show the separate hit roll in the combat log so there is no way to test that for sure).

 

Although, there is still another separate bug, where it hit a green ink man in IP (not mob-started yet so no 02 boost from sorcerer, which none was in that mob anyway, etc) and it DID confuse, but it only lasted for about 1 or 2 seconds, where it should have lasted 20 since it was only a +2 minnion.

 

So at this point it seems most likely bugs are:

 

1. Line of sight bug, which agreed shouldn't be a thing, it's not a snipe.

 

2. Confuse running on a separate to hit check from the initial damage. Or it could be just a plain bug in not confusing cause of screwed up code related to the DoT or other things that were mentioned previously in this thread.

 

Also to note, while not a bug exactly, the damage dot stacking should REALLY be looked at so it can stack for reasons stated in my post above. If it's not able to stack I'd honestly rather it just do standard damage on it's initial attack, or maybe short DoT for like 2-3 seconds, but the "dot lasts 30s" if it doesn't stack is just REALLY underpowered and makes it just awkward to try to slot/use it for the damage. Please for the love of all that is holy FIX THIS!

[WindDemon21]

On 12/16/2022 at 1:30 PM, WindDemon21 said:

Also to note, while not a bug exactly, the damage dot stacking should REALLY be looked at so it can stack for reasons stated in my post above. If it's not able to stack I'd honestly rather it just do standard damage on it's initial attack, or maybe short DoT for like 2-3 seconds, but the "dot lasts 30s" if it doesn't stack is just REALLY underpowered and makes it just awkward to try to slot/use it for the damage. Please for the love of all that is holy FIX THIS!

Seriously on this note though. How was this not corrected/noticed how terrible it is if the dot doesn't stack on beta. I'll admit I missed the symph stuff on it cause I was on other concerns but seriously, I'd more think the non-stacking was a bug if someone didn't specify it wasn't.

[WindDemon21]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:04 PM, WindDemon21 said:

Seriously on this note though. How was this not corrected/noticed how terrible it is if the dot doesn't stack on beta. I'll admit I missed the symph stuff on it cause I was on other concerns but seriously, I'd more think the non-stacking was a bug if someone didn't specify it wasn't.

Actually isn't this a bug as well? Looking through patch notes I'm not seeing anywhere that states it shouldn't stack the dot, or even on the focused feedback for it.

[WindDemon21]

On 1/5/2023 at 7:42 PM, WindDemon21 said:

Actually isn't this a bug as well? Looking through patch notes I'm not seeing anywhere that states it shouldn't stack the dot, or even on the focused feedback for it.

Any update on this?

[Booper]

On 2/21/2023 at 12:05 PM, WindDemon21 said:

Any update on this?

The DoT replacement is intentional, so not a bug.

 

I have fixed the LoS check internally...as for the discrepancy between the Dominator and Controller's execution of the confuse power not matching up in terms of IO Slot Acceptance, that's a work in progress. I don't think it'll matter, but I'm investigating and if a fix is needed it will be done

[WindDemon21]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:23 PM, Booper said:

The DoT replacement is intentional, so not a bug.

 

I have fixed the LoS check internally...as for the discrepancy between the Dominator and Controller's execution of the confuse power not matching up in terms of IO Slot Acceptance, that's a work in progress. I don't think it'll matter, but I'm investigating and if a fix is needed it will be done

What is that controller/dom slotting difference thing? I've only looked on trollers for slotting so far (not work/use)

 

As to the dot replacing, if its not a bug, i'd like to EXTREMELY suggest that it doesnt, and actually stacks like it should.

 

For the da,age it does, both initial, and dot, this is an extremely bad decision for the dot to not stack. This makes it both, and not necessary to slot for damage,. It means the damage is both inconsequensial to use the skill for actual damage, yet means its damage unslotted isn't worth the ability to not have the advantage of being able to use without being notified.

 

Basically any time its used on the same target, before those 30 seconds, the damage it does is REALLY pathetic given its base hit, and the DOt is only valueable per cast when the target lasts for most of that 30 seconds anyway, which if you waste slots on slotting damage on the power, you get a REALLY bad return on them since the initial hit is so minimal, and essentially, within 30 seconds, additional hits DON'T get the benefit of the dot, so theyre DPA get royally screwed. The only way for the DOT to even mean anything is if its literally cast on a new enemy in a mob and the whole mob takes like a minute to kill, its really quite horrid how bad it is without stacking the DOT.

 

PLEASE for the love of god reconsider and fix this.

 

Even in a long AV fight, with the DOT stacking it wouldnt be anything near OP damage levels, and it still wouldn't even be the most damage of a control set on said AV either. And obviously anything below, doesnt usually last the 30 seconds anyway. And this EXTRA hurts controllers. who would need to rely more on that damage as well, hence the main reason why my one troller is still shelved waiting for this to be fixed. PLEASE correct this.