Dual Pistols/Ninjitsu - What do you think?

[oddrobin]

Hearing a lot of good things about Sentinels lately got me itching to build one. I did some research and landed on Dual Pistols for my primary. I love the animations for it, but it always felt lackluster when I tried it as a blaster. My research assures me DP plays better as a Sentinel. Then I waffled between Super Reflexes and Ninjutsu secondaries. In my heart I knew Ninjitsu was the look and feel I wanted, but 95% of everything I have been reading recommended SR over Nin. 

I am not experienced creating builds from scratch, so I found some posted builds to mashup and tweak into what I think is a solid DP/Nin Sentinel. Here are my starting builds:

• DP/SR by SmalltalkJava: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/30151-dual-pistals-super-reflexes-sentinal-build/#comment-403811
• Water/Nin by EndOla: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/21316-waterninj-soft-cap-and-procs-build-advice/#comment-244629
 

Spoiler

And this is what I put together:

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Skibo: Level 49 Natural Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dual Wield -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), HO:Centri(3), ImpSwf-Dam%(3), FrcFdb-Rechg%(5), ExpStr-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(7)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(7), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFrt-Def(13), RedFrt-EndRdx(13)
Level 2: Danger Sense -- Srn-Def/EndRdx(A), Srn-Def/Rchg(15), Srn-EndRdx/Rchg(15), Srn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Srn-Def(17), Srn-EndRdx(19)
Level 4: Shinobi-Iri -- Srn-Def/EndRdx(A), Srn-Def/Rchg(19), Srn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Srn-Def(21), Srn-EndRdx(23)
Level 6: Suppressive Fire -- Apc-Dam%(A), UnbCns-Dam%(23), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(25), GldNet-Dam%(25), NrnSht-Dam%(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27)
Level 8: Swap Ammo 
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Bullet Rain -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(31)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), Krm-ResKB(48)
Level 16: Seishinteki Kyoyo -- RechRdx-I(A), EndMod-I(33)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), Apc-Dmg(33), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), ImpSwf-Dam%(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 20: Kick -- Mk'Bit-Dam%(A)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36)
Level 26: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(37), UnbGrd-ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), UnbGrd-Max HP%(39)
Level 28: Kuji-In Sha -- RechRdx-I(A), Heal-I(39)
Level 30: Weave -- Srn-Def/EndRdx(A), Srn-Def/Rchg(40), Srn-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Srn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Srn-Def(47)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Arm-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Bo Ryaku -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(48), GldArm-RechEnd(48), StdPrt-ResKB(49)
Level 38: Kuji-In Retsu -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(45), GssSynFr--Build%(45)
Level 44: Pistols -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Apc-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Victory Rush -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Opportunity 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Qck-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(9), EndMod-I(47)
Level 8: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 8: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 8: Incendiary Ammunition 
------------

 

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I'm not a numbers person, but the bars look good to me. I'm just starting this character, so I don't yet know if it plays well in practice. I'm still considering if I'd rather have a travel power than Victory Rush. I'm totally open to suggestions! Thanks for taking a look.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by oddrobin

[StrikerFox]

I like the stats you got for your build but some of the slotting just seems off. For example:

 

Steadfast and Gladiator's Armor IO sets are split between Tough and Bo Ryaku. 4 slotting GA into Bo Ryaku; 2 slotting Steadfast into Tough, would provide a small recovery and T/P +res buffs. 

 

Standard IOs in Stamina, Kuji-In Sha and Seishinteki Kyoyo. Slotting them with IOs with set bonuses would provide better overall stats.

 

The dam/range hamio in Dual Wield is odd. All your DP attacks have a range of 66' except Dual Wield, which is 78' due to the hamio.

 

Tactics feels overslotted. Slots could be better used elsewhere. Like adding a Shield Wall, Reactive Defense and Numina's uniques. Also a Kismet if you want to make up the lost +tohit.

 

There are probably better IO sets than Serendipity.

 

The build doesn't have the ATO2 set (Though I don't know if it's needed).

 

Some of the attacks have 0 accuracy. 

 

There's probably some other stuff but I'm falling asleep.

[oddrobin]

15 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

I like the stats you got for your build but some of the slotting just seems off. For example:

 

Steadfast and Gladiator's Armor IO sets are split between Tough and Bo Ryaku. 4 slotting GA into Bo Ryaku; 2 slotting Steadfast into Tough, would provide a small recovery and T/P +res buffs. 

 

Standard IOs in Stamina, Kuji-In Sha and Seishinteki Kyoyo. Slotting them with IOs with set bonuses would provide better overall stats.

 

The dam/range hamio in Dual Wield is odd. All your DP attacks have a range of 66' except Dual Wield, which is 78' due to the hamio.

 

Tactics feels overslotted. Slots could be better used elsewhere. Like adding a Shield Wall, Reactive Defense and Numina's uniques. Also a Kismet if you want to make up the lost +tohit.

 

There are probably better IO sets than Serendipity.

 

The build doesn't have the ATO2 set (Though I don't know if it's needed).

 

Some of the attacks have 0 accuracy. 

 

There's probably some other stuff but I'm falling asleep.

 

Thanks for the feedback! I think I meant to redo the standard IOs in those slots, but I got tired and forgot about them. I'm always up for more tinkering!

 

[oddrobin]

The tweaks I made after taking the feedback  @StrikerFox  gave me into consideration gave me these results:

 

The good:

• Resistance is increased
• Regeneration is increased
• Max HP is increased
• End Recovery is increased
• Haste is increased
• ToHit is increased
• Status resistance is increased

The not good:

• End Use is slightly increased
• Accuracy is less: 48% to 39%
• Defense is negligibly less
  • Melee: 102.22% down to 101.53%
  • Ranged: 96.47% down to 93.56%
  • AoE: 97.72% down to 93.56%

What should be done to increase accuracy? Thanks!

 

Spoiler

Here's the updated build:

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Skibo: Level 50 Natural Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dual Wield -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), HO:Nucle(3), ImpSwf-Dam%(3), FrcFdb-Rechg%(5), ExpStr-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(7)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(7), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFrt-Def(13), RedFrt-EndRdx(13)
Level 2: Danger Sense -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(15), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(15), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(19)
Level 4: Shinobi-Iri -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), Ksm-Def/EndRdx(19), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(21), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), ShlWal-Def(23), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 6: Suppressive Fire -- Apc-Dam%(A), UnbCns-Dam%(23), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(25), GldNet-Dam%(25), NrnSht-Dam%(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27)
Level 8: Swap Ammo 
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Bullet Rain -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(31)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), Krm-ResKB(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 16: Seishinteki Kyoyo -- RechRdx-I(A), EndMod-I(33)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), Apc-Dmg(33), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), ImpSwf-Dam%(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 20: Kick -- Mk'Bit-Dam%(A)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36)
Level 26: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), UnbGrd-Max HP%(39)
Level 28: Kuji-In Sha -- RechRdx-I(A), Heal-I(39)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(40), Rct-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Arm-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Bo Ryaku -- StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), StdPrt-ResKB(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(46), GldArm-ResDam(48), GldArm-End/Res(48), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(49)
Level 38: Kuji-In Retsu -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GssSynFr--Build%(45)
Level 44: Pistols -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Apc-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Victory Rush -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Opportunity 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Qck-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9), PwrTrns-+Heal(47)
Level 8: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 8: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 8: Incendiary Ammunition 
------------

 

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Edited March 30, 2023 by oddrobin

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, oddrobin said:

• End Use is slightly increased
• Accuracy is less: 48% to 39%
• Defense is negligibly less
  • Melee: 102.22% down to 101.53%
  • Ranged: 96.47% down to 93.56%
  • AoE: 97.72% down to 93.56%

What should be done to increase accuracy? Thanks!

 

Looks like your build has all the powers active. Most people check stats with only toggles and powers that are perma (Or close to perma) active.

 

For example, Kuji-In Sha on your build lasts for 3 minutes but, has around a 7 minute recharge. So it's up time is about 40%. The 93-102% defense numbers will only be that high 2/5ths of the time.

 

In Tactics there are 2 circles to activate. One displays the Tactic's +tohit buff; second displays the Gaussian's BU buff. So turn Tactics on, BU proc off, since you won't receive the BU buff all the time.

 

Also turned off Victory Rush and Hail of Bullets. Apparently HoB provides a 5 second def buff when used.

 

Procs are pretty awesome but the best way to build accuracy is from set bonuses. Can include Incarnates that improve acc. 

 

[oddrobin]

oooOOOOooooohhhhh!!!!!!! 

 

This is a whole new way to see things, and it makes sense I would want to know what the stats are without the temporary buffs on.

 

Back to tinkering. 

 

Thank you for pointing this out to me in such a wonderfully clear way!

[StrikerFox]

Most players aim for +45% defense (Aka softcap defense) to type or positional def. When fighting an even level enemy, they have a base chance of 50% to hit/miss you. Adding +45% def bumps that number up to 95%, meaning they will hit you only 5% of the time. 

 

In most cases, there's not much use building for more defense than +45%, as everything in game has a minimum 5% chance to hit when attacking. So you could have +45% def, +100% def or +500% def and enemies will still hit you 5% of the time. This does not include things like -def debuffs or enemy +tohit buffs. 

 

Late game, Incarnate Trials, enemies have a +13.5% tohit buff. So some players build for +58.5% def (45% + 13.5%). 

 

So your current build, melee is at softcap. Ranged and AoE is about 3.2% below. Some players like to build a bit higher than +45% to give them a buffer from -def debuffs. I recommend around +47% just so one small purple +12.5% def inspiration will get you above incarnate softcap.

 

It's all pretty confusing. Anyone could explain it better than I did. Or Google, "City of Heroes softcap defense," and there will probably be a ton of guides/resources to help make sense of it.

[oldskool]

As the usual reminder, slotting the Gaussian's Build-Up proc in Tactics has a very low chance to go off when you solo. If you are in a group of people and proving the buff in range, then the changes work out a bit better. Is this worth doing? Well... probably not. However, it is the only way you can pseudo access Aim/Build-up-like buffs with Dual Pistols and this particular power combo. 

I currently do not run Tactics with my DP/SR build, and so I do not have any "Chance for Build-Up" effects (Decimation being the other option; it's not great either). I don't miss it, and don't feel I really need it. Dual Pistols, with damage procs, can slap pretty well. 

You don't need Pistols in your build. It looks like you're using it to mule that minor set. Look at HP and Regen with and without it. You'll notice you recover 11 hp in your current set up. If you dumped Pistols and that set you'd recover a bit over 9 hp. Are those slots worth investing in for less than 2 hp of health recovery? What else could you do with those slots? 

End management could feel a bit constrained in this build. Maybe in practice it won't be so bad since you have procs in Health and Stamina to help cover that. However, I dropped Nin because using Seishinteki Kyoyo kept eating into my damage routine vs just using blue inspirations. 

End management is one of the major drawbacks of slotting an attack sequence (Dual Wield, Suppressive Fire, Executioner's Shot) like this with the less than 3 end per second your build has. I speak from experience on this. My current version of my Sent, using SR for more end management, can still run out of gas and has more passive end then Nin. The more you have to interrupt attacking to fuel endurance, the less damage you do which then drags on combat, and so on and so on. 

You may want to consider backing off heavy proc use and mix in some minor set use. Thunderstrike Acc/Dmg, Acc/Dmg/End, and Dmg/End are 3 IOs that grant you a set boost to minor recovery, natively reduce end cost in your attack chain, and give you a minor ranged defense buff. This is for 3 slots, all of which can be boosted to +5, and lets you slap in procs for the remaining 3 slots. Yes, it is a bit less damage, but it is a considerable boost in quality of life. Not only that, it helps pad out your ranged defense. 

Obviously, if your end is good, and you like how things are, then don't worry about my advice. However, if you don't mind backing off procs a bit, then some frankenslotting can go a long way. 

[oddrobin]

On 3/8/2023 at 10:15 PM, StrikerFox said:

Most players aim for +45% defense (Aka softcap defense) to type or positional def. When fighting an even level enemy, they have a base chance of 50% to hit/miss you. Adding +45% def bumps that number up to 95%, meaning they will hit you only 5% of the time. 

 

In most cases, there's not much use building for more defense than +45%, as everything in game has a minimum 5% chance to hit when attacking. So you could have +45% def, +100% def or +500% def and enemies will still hit you 5% of the time. This does not include things like -def debuffs or enemy +tohit buffs. 

 

Late game, Incarnate Trials, enemies have a +13.5% tohit buff. So some players build for +58.5% def (45% + 13.5%). 

 

So your current build, melee is at softcap. Ranged and AoE is about 3.2% below. Some players like to build a bit higher than +45% to give them a buffer from -def debuffs. I recommend around +47% just so one small purple +12.5% def inspiration will get you above incarnate softcap.

 

It's all pretty confusing. Anyone could explain it better than I did. Or Google, "City of Heroes softcap defense," and there will probably be a ton of guides/resources to help make sense of it.

You explained it very well here! Thank you. I am still working on it and I think it's going to be great!

[oddrobin]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:32 PM, oldskool said:

As the usual reminder, slotting the Gaussian's Build-Up proc in Tactics has a very low chance to go off when you solo. If you are in a group of people and proving the buff in range, then the changes work out a bit better. Is this worth doing? Well... probably not. However, it is the only way you can pseudo access Aim/Build-up-like buffs with Dual Pistols and this particular power combo. 

I currently do not run Tactics with my DP/SR build, and so I do not have any "Chance for Build-Up" effects (Decimation being the other option; it's not great either). I don't miss it, and don't feel I really need it. Dual Pistols, with damage procs, can slap pretty well. 

You don't need Pistols in your build. It looks like you're using it to mule that minor set. Look at HP and Regen with and without it. You'll notice you recover 11 hp in your current set up. If you dumped Pistols and that set you'd recover a bit over 9 hp. Are those slots worth investing in for less than 2 hp of health recovery? What else could you do with those slots? 

End management could feel a bit constrained in this build. Maybe in practice it won't be so bad since you have procs in Health and Stamina to help cover that. However, I dropped Nin because using Seishinteki Kyoyo kept eating into my damage routine vs just using blue inspirations. 

End management is one of the major drawbacks of slotting an attack sequence (Dual Wield, Suppressive Fire, Executioner's Shot) like this with the less than 3 end per second your build has. I speak from experience on this. My current version of my Sent, using SR for more end management, can still run out of gas and has more passive end then Nin. The more you have to interrupt attacking to fuel endurance, the less damage you do which then drags on combat, and so on and so on. 

You may want to consider backing off heavy proc use and mix in some minor set use. Thunderstrike Acc/Dmg, Acc/Dmg/End, and Dmg/End are 3 IOs that grant you a set boost to minor recovery, natively reduce end cost in your attack chain, and give you a minor ranged defense buff. This is for 3 slots, all of which can be boosted to +5, and lets you slap in procs for the remaining 3 slots. Yes, it is a bit less damage, but it is a considerable boost in quality of life. Not only that, it helps pad out your ranged defense. 

Obviously, if your end is good, and you like how things are, then don't worry about my advice. However, if you don't mind backing off procs a bit, then some frankenslotting can go a long way. 

These are really great points. Thank you! I'm still playing around with the build. I didn't realize there would be such a learning curve, but it's turning into a fun puzzle I am going to solve.

[oldskool]

17 hours ago, oddrobin said:

These are really great points. Thank you! I'm still playing around with the build. I didn't realize there would be such a learning curve, but it's turning into a fun puzzle I am going to solve.

Yeah, Dual Pistols is unlike any other ranged set in the game. The only other one that has some similarities is Beam Rifle. It is worth noting that both of those sets came up later in the lifespan of COH before its shutdown. There were some lessons learned, some lessons ignored, and some ambitious ideas tossed into both sets. 

Nin is also a more active defense-based set with a bunch of different tools adding to its complexity (its even more busy on Stalkers). 

The combination of both power sets creates a bit more of a learning curve than the norm. 

Also, yeah... building characters is a bit of a puzzle that can be fun in its own way. Many different power sets have pretty straight forward options on powers to pick and avoid. Dual Pistols has much muddier waters on that subject because most of the set has value in certain context. 

For example, Pistols by default is a bit more damage efficient than Dual Wield. A lot of common forum knowledge is that T2 (Dual Wield here) powers are almost always better than their T1 (Pistols) powers. However, for Dual Pistols this mindset isn't always true. It can be, in certain builds, but isn't necessarily a default mindset one should operate with. The value of the two powers can also be AT dependent as there are some advantages to using one over the other by archetype. That's a lot of freaking nuance between two powers and we hadn't even gotten past the first level choice. 

Additionally, as much as I dislike Piercing Rounds, there is an interaction where its value can be better when you get its recharge down to 4.224 seconds. That is exactly the amount of time it takes to use Pistols -> Executioner's Shot -> Pistols and have Piercing Rounds be available again. This is not the best use of powers on the Sentinel but it can be a good option on Defenders and Corruptors in some set ups. The way it expresses value is using standard ammo for the debuffs in all three attacks. That's additional defense and resistance debuffing which can stack with support powers. Is it always the best option? Probably not, but it is a gameplay element worth thinking about on occasion. Stuff like this is why I enjoy the set so much. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by oldskool

[oddrobin]

Taking all the great feedback and tips into consideration, I'm still tweaking away. I am really scratching my head on why the damage percentage on my current version is so much lower than my first try. My first try says it is getting 95.5% of it's 195.5% damage from enhancements. My current version is only getting 20% damage from enhancements. I can't find any glaring discrepancies, though. Maybe I just have my views set differently or something? Here's my current version build:

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Skibo: Level 50 Natural Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Pistols -- Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(3), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(5), TchofLadG-%Dam(5), ShlBrk-%Dam(7)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Danger Sense -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(11), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(11), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), LucoftheG-Def(13), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(15)
Level 4: Shinobi-Iri -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), Ksm-Def/EndRdx(15), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(17), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), ShlWal-Def(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(19)
Level 6: Suppressive Fire -- GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(A), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(21), GldJvl-Dam/Rech(21), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(23), GldJvl-Dam%(23), GldJvl-Acc/End/Rech(25)
Level 8: Swap Ammo 
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Bullet Rain -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(25), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(29)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), Krm-ResKB(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31), LucoftheG-Def(36), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(39)
Level 16: Seishinteki Kyoyo -- RechRdx-I(A), EnrMnp-Stun%(31), EnrMnp-EndMod(48)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Apc-Acc/Rchg(33), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Apc-Dam%(34)
Level 20: Kick -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dam%(40), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(47)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(36), UnbGrd-ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), UnbGrd-Max HP%(39)
Level 28: Kuji-In Sha -- RechRdx-I(A), Heal-I(39)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Arm-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Bo Ryaku -- StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), StdPrt-ResKB(43), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43), GldArm-ResDam(43), GldArm-End/Res(45), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(45)
Level 38: Kuji-In Retsu -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(45), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(46), EndRdx-I(47)
Level 44: Dual Wield -- Dvs-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Dvs-Acc/Dmg(46), Dvs-Dmg/Rchg(46), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(48), HO:Nucle(48), IceMisTrmt-+ColdDmg(50)
Level 47: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Opportunity 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Qck-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9), PwrTrns-+Heal(9)
Level 47: Speed Phase 
Level 8: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 8: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 8: Incendiary Ammunition 
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Edited March 30, 2023 by oddrobin
to add the data chunk

[oldskool]

I think the new build you posted is a significant downgrade in damage from what you had after your post on March 8th. 

 

In the new build above, you are chasing a lot of full sets but these are in powers that now make no real sense. Due to the way you slotted Dual Wield, you depreciated value in Suppressive Fire. The way you have things set up, Pistols, Dual Wield, and Executioner's Shot will yield some better results when running Incendiary Ammo. This is because Incendiary Ammo provides a different effect to those 3 powers vs Suppressive Fire. However, when enemies would be weaker to Fire Suppressive Fire then has some value as it gets a 50/50 damage split unlike others in the set. 

 

Also, you do not need to slot a recharge reducer in Pistols as you do. It looks like you're using a Dmg/Rch from Thunderstike and then the Acc/Dmg from the PvP set. This will diminish the value of those procs a good bit. If you used the Thunderstrike combos I mentioned before (March 9th) post, then you could just run those 3 of the set. If you use boosters to push them to +5 you'll go from 73% enhanced damage to 89%. With Musculature Core Alpha you'll still hit 124% enhancement which is well into the diminishing returns for levels 45+. In trade of having slightly less than 90% enhanced damage you could slot in another damage proc which should average out to being an upgrade. 

 

However, you also don't have a high global recharge to really make that worth your slots. Instead, you could just keep Dual Wield, Suppressive Fire, and Executioner's Shot with 3 Thunderstrike + 3 damage procs. The animation time of each of those is just under 2 seconds (literally the same time for each). This reduces the burden of trying to get perma-Hasten while still allowing for solid damage when leveraging procs. 

 

I would suggest getting familiar with Damage-Per-Activation (DPA). This is a metric in the Windows (top bar of MIDs) -> DPS Calculator (Beta). You'll get an easy to read display of all your powers and various metrics. You can see in the list how the DPA of each attack has a result. In order for this to be the most helpful for Dual Pistols, look at results with Incendiary Ammo on and off. You'll see Suppressive Fire doesn't go up (because it doesn't have the Fire damage over time). Your other powers do go up. This can show you how each of these powers works with the ammo types and help you plan out what you want to do. For the most part, Incendiary Ammo is beneficial for Sentinels for damage consistency. The other ammo types have versatility components at the cost of damage dealt. Suppressive Fire is a unique power in the set and has its own interaction with the ammo mechanic. 

 

Combat Jumping is overslotted for the value it grants. I don't think Kick is worth slotting, and well there are a lot of choices that don't make a lot of sense in this. 

 

Edit Note: Maybe giving you something to compare to may help. Below is a data link of a possibility. I'm not trying to mirror your powers 100% and so swap stuff around. The most important thing I wanted to do was to illustrate getting the defenses up while balancing the damage slotting. One could certainly tweak this a few ways to tailor various outcomes of performance. Some enhancements have boosters applied which is going to make a difference when looking at a default version. I often plan for these when making characters. I don't always boost everything, but do try to prioritize some of the damage IOs in important attacks plus taking both recharge enhancers in Hasten to +4 (+5 isn't really worth it for both lvl 50 IOs).

 

Spoiler

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1675&c=735&a=1470&f=HEX&dc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

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by oldskool

[oddrobin]

On 3/25/2023 at 11:08 AM, oldskool said:

I think the new build you posted is a significant downgrade in damage from what you had after your post on March 8th. 

 

Yes. I 100% agree, and it really exposes how little I understand what the heck I'm doing when it comes to builds. Thank you for bringing the DPA to my attention. I'll try to incorporate the data from those numbers to improve this chaotic mess I've concocted.

[oldskool]

32 minutes ago, oddrobin said:

 

Yes. I 100% agree, and it really exposes how little I understand what the heck I'm doing when it comes to builds. Thank you for bringing the DPA to my attention. I'll try to incorporate the data from those numbers to improve this chaotic mess I've concocted.

 

Build making is a puzzle. Some of the parts of that puzzle are what makes you happy. If certain powers, attributes, and combos are what tickles your fancy, then those of us on these boards can go F off. So, always keep that in your back pocket. 😉 

Anyway, tinkering with characters is always a process. Some folks do like to make something as close to optimized as possible, and then never go back to it. I STILL find things I could change here and there in my characters to make them marginally better. Then I ask if the respec is worth the work (sometimes no). Then there are times where I look at a build I made before and wonder what I was thinking when I did it. 

[UltraAlt]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:06 AM, oddrobin said:

Then I waffled between Super Reflexes and Ninjutsu secondaries. In my heart I knew Ninjitsu was the look and feel I wanted, but 95% of everything I have been reading recommended SR over Nin. 

 

make one of both, you have 1000 slots.

 

Embrace your altitis. 

[FupDup]

I took a stab at this build with a different philosophy...

 

Namely, I tend to build around collecting as many set bonuses as possible, which means I cut back on a lot of the frankenslotting.

 

Secondly, I tend to prioritize durability on Sentinels over stuff like proc bombing because having armor is the whole point of the AT compared to blasters. On that note, going over 45% defense is actually a very good idea on a pure defense set like Nin because of two reasons: 

1. Incarnate content has a higher softcap, 58.75% to be exact. Pretty much all level 50 content is incarnate so IMO it's an important consideration. 

2. Even while playing non-incarnate stuff, going over 45% can give you a bit of a "buffer" against defense debuffs which gives you a little bit of wiggle room against cascading defense failures. 

 

Here is the first revision I made, which keeps the proc bombing and tries to keep the "spirit" of the original build as much as possible. The main thing is that I added a travel power (Super Speed, replace with whatever you want) and shifted slots around to beef up your +End and +Heal powers since they're so important. You also had way too much knockback protection from IO's given that you have an auto power for that, so they got yoinked out. I boosted all of the PVP's and Purples to +5. 

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1741&c=772&a=1544&f=HEX&dc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

 

Here is my second revision, which slots the attack powers with full sets rather than proc bombing. I also crammed in Empty Clips because I believe that you can never have too much AoE. If I were to make this for real the power ordering and which sets go where would be a bit different but this is pretty close to how I would run it. 

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1741&c=748&a=1496&f=HEX&dc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

 

EDIT: Both builds failed to account for Hail of Bullets contributing to defense, so now I need to find a way to squeeze a bit more out to get closer to the incarnate softcap. I'll make a completely clean rebuild of it later since that will be easier than untangling the existing spaghetti. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by FupDup

[FupDup]

Here is the promised clean rebuild. I managed to get melee and ranged defenses to just a hair over the incarnate softcap with the help of Agility as the alpha slot ability and a bunch of Hami O's (that does increase the cost a quite a bit unfortunately). 

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1843&c=767&a=1534&f=HEX&dc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

[oddrobin]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:14 PM, FupDup said:

Here is the promised clean rebuild. I managed to get melee and ranged defenses to just a hair over the incarnate softcap with the help of Agility as the alpha slot ability and a bunch of Hami O's (that does increase the cost a quite a bit unfortunately). 

 

All three of the builds you made are impressive and superior to what I've been able to do. My latest attempt is pretty good, though still quite amateur in comparison. Creating these builds was very generous of your time and I really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing them. I'm still working on my latest version and I'll see it through, but I'll probably use your build in the end. 
 

[oddrobin]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:49 PM, UltraAlt said:

 

make one of both, you have 1000 slots.

 

Embrace your altitis. 

 

Heh, I have embraced it. The DP/SR is up to L30-something. Pretty cool so far!

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, oddrobin said:

On 3/27/2023 at 7:49 PM, UltraAlt said:

Embrace your altitis. 

 

Heh, I have embraced it.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by UltraAlt

[oddrobin]

Here is my latest and greatest version so far. Overall, I am very happy with what I did here. I think the key to getting the build to this point was learning about the Set Bonus Finder window! 🤯 Also, I had to update my version of Mids. I chucked Dual Pistols and kept Pistols because Pistols cast time is shorter (I really don't know if that was wise--thoughts?). In place of DP, I picked Empty Clips because I've been liking it on the DP/SR I've been playing with. I moved slots around like a street hustler playing find the pea. I don't exactly know what frankenslotting means, but, I suspect this may be a prime example of it. 

 

Compared to my first attempt, here's what we've got:
We've got all positional defense types soft-capped for regular stuff (my first version also has that, but it's important so I'm mentioning it).

We've got a travel power.

We've got...

more resistance.
more regeneration.
more end recovery (and more end use, but the difference is .23 greater so I'm considering it a win).
more movement speed.
more haste.
more ToHit.
more accuracy.
MORE DAMAGE!
more status resistance.

 

It's got some expensive pieces in there, but it seems regularly expensive rather than exorbitantly expensive.

 

It doesn't have all the fun proc surprises, and I'm still worried about endurance. It's obviously not perfect, but I learned so much about the mechanics of building that I'll be able to apply it to future builds and maybe even help someone else out for a change.

 

Thank you for all the help and for hanging in there with me. 

 

Skibo: Level 50 Natural Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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|FA89FF6F8FCA68|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

[oddrobin]

On 3/25/2023 at 11:08 AM, oldskool said:

Edit Note: Maybe giving you something to compare to may help. Below is a data link of a possibility. I'm not trying to mirror your powers 100% and so swap stuff around. The most important thing I wanted to do was to illustrate getting the defenses up while balancing the damage slotting. One could certainly tweak this a few ways to tailor various outcomes of performance. Some enhancements have boosters applied which is going to make a difference when looking at a default version. I often plan for these when making characters. I don't always boost everything, but do try to prioritize some of the damage IOs in important attacks plus taking both recharge enhancers in Hasten to +4 (+5 isn't really worth it for both lvl 50 IOs).

 

Oh my gosh, I am just now noticing your build here. It's amazing. I've never boosted an enhancement. I'll have to learn about that. Thanks for taking the time to make this example for me. You've been a great guide on this journey!

[BazookaTwo]

When hovering over the enh in the picker in mids, hit your +/- keys to boost. 

 

I am gonna check these builds out. My main is an Archery/Ninja and he is by far one of my most optimized builds. I find Archery and Dual Pistols to be like cousins as far as how their sets are designed. 

 

I also have a DP/SR, and it could be good to mash those two halves together and see what happens. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by BazookaTwo

[oldskool]

4 hours ago, oddrobin said:

I chucked Dual Pistols and kept Pistols because Pistols cast time is shorter (I really don't know if that was wise--thoughts?). In place of DP, I picked Empty Clips because I've been liking it on the DP/SR I've been playing with. I moved slots around like a street hustler playing find the pea. I don't exactly know what frankenslotting means, but, I suspect this may be a prime example of it. 

 

Pistols vs Dual Wield may come down to a few factors (and forgive me if I gloss over minor bits): 

 

1) Your recharge of powers in respect to Executioner's Shot's cooldown. 

2) Your decision to use procs or not. 

3) Your Archetype; for Sentinels this is easier but for other ATs there are different possibilities. 

4) Other goals. 

 

So, what do I mean by the above? Well, when you start getting into the weeds on optimizing how damage works you want to find your big heavy hitting attack you plan to use. That power will have an animation time and a recharge time. Both of these things are important to optimization. You're hard pressed to ever build a character that can recharge its heaviest hitting power within its own animation window. In other words, you can't spam Executioner's Shot infinitely as there are limits to recharge and constraints in animation. In general, you don't have enough reduction of time to just spam Executioner's Shot + Suppressive Fire (which is a solid secondary heavy hitter). So, you're stuck with filling time with another power. 

 

Your time fillers are Pistols, Dual Wield, your AoE powers, and/or any of the Epic Pool powers (e.g. Havoc Punch). *This* is where understanding how attack sequence building comes into play. 

 

Pistols has a real animation time just over 1 second (1.188s). 

Suppressive Fire has an animation time just under 2 seconds (1.848s). That animation time is also identical to Executioner's Shot. 

 

What does this mean? Well, in order to make Pistols super bad ass you want to use it as little as possible (WHAT????). What this means is you want to have a time frame on the recharge of Executioner's Shot that is so low that it comes back up after Pistols + Suppressive Fire (or 3.036 seconds). That recharge time is HARD to pull off without slotting recharge reducers in ES which would devalue proc potential. If procs aren't a concern, then who cares? However, you're not optimizing the damage potential of ES at that point either. So, its moot. Getting ES to a recharge range just over 3 seconds without any slotted recharge (i.e., stuffing it full of procs) requires way more recharge focus than I think is worth it. Furthermore, sets with built in recharge reduction (i.e., Super Reflexes, Energy Armor, Rad Armor, etc.) are the sets to help try to do this. 

 

That said, if you want to go proc heavy, realize that Pistols kinda sucks at that. However, Dual Wield is actually pretty good at it for what it is (it being a T2 power). 

 

Dual Wield has an animation time of 1.848 (same as many of the other powers). This now means that Dual Wield + Suppressive Fire (assuming both use a bunch of procs) has a total animation time of 3.696 seconds. <----- That number is possible around the same realm when you can get Hasten uptime to be 100%. My Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes Sentinel has 182.5% global recharge without having to bend over backwards for Destiny: Ageless. Executioner's Shot has a recharge of 3.54 seconds while Hasten is on (its on all the time 😛). 

 

So, in one situation the most common thing you'll end up coming across (assuming procs) is: 

 

Executioner's Shot -> Pistols (its filler) -> Suppressive Fire -> Pistols (its filler) -> Executioner's Shot..... 

 

No procs with the above:

 

Executioner's Shot -> Suppressive Fire -> Pistols -> Executioner's Shot.... 

 

In the above, the proc build will do more damage. I guarantee you this. I have tested it and so have a lot of other folks. 

 

However, know what does more damage (assuming procs???): 

 

Executioner's Shot -> Suppressive Fire -> Dual Wield -> Executioner's Shot... 

 

Without procs, Dual Wield becomes less valuable than Pistols. With Procs Dual Wield becomes better. In fact, it also lets you not try to get really absurd recharge numbers (190-205%) which lets you have set bonuses elsewhere. 

 

All of the above, especially with damage procs can enable Dual Pistol Sentinels to make some significant dents into AV health. This isn't the highest possible damage across all ATs, or even in the Sentinel, but it is DAMN respectable. I've clocked over 300 DPS with just the native Dual Pistols single target powers ever since the big patch. Saying Dual Pistols sucks is true only if you don't build for it. 

However, even without doing all that build juryrigging, the core base of Sentinel Dual Pistols is still capable of exceeding AV health regen (this requires around 150 DPS) and can tread water around 170-180 range. By the original Live Server accounts, that would be awesome. It isn't on Homecoming due to power creep, but it isn't nearly this realm of hot garbage people have said before. 

 

Anyway, Dual Pistols is one of those few sets where the T1 power (Pistols) and T2 power (Dual Wield) have context driven reasons why one is good over the other. It isn't nearly as straight forward as it looks unless all you wanna do is run basic IO sets (then take Pistols). 

And... that said: 

 

Don't put Apocalypse in Pistols. Swap your slotting between Pistols and Executioner's Shot. That would be a raw damage upgrade. 😉