Safest scrapper combo

[Blackjoy]

On 4/21/2023 at 2:43 PM, Kinvesu said:

*** I will be soloing probably. *** I am just looking for something I can use to be survivable from 1-50.

 

Thank you for reading and/or trying to help. I appreciate it.

It would help if you answered a couple of questions:

 

1.  What difficulty do you want to run at?  +1, +2, +3?

 

2.  What size groups   x1, x2, x8? 

 

3.  How hard do you want to work at staying alive?

 

4.  Will you spend more time playing 1-49 or playing at lvl 50?

 

I've been running several secondaries solo from 1-40.  I've run DM/SR, Staff/WP and Savage/Regen all to 50.   I've also got Kin/Regen,  Savage/SR, and En/Rad to 40.  Finally I've got a  Sav/SD to just above 30.

 

Of all the secondaries i tried /Regen is by far the fastest leveling and the best survivability if you're running straight IO's, no set bonuses, and no power pools for mitigation.   But /Regen takes the most work and knowledge.  It has the most overhead.   The real problem with /Regen is that once you hit the 40's, the debuffing can be extreme and it makes it harder to run x3 and x4.   Unless you pump a lot of money into it, it's going to have the hardest time soloing 4x8.

 

/SR is probably the 'safest" in terms of avoiding death.....providing you aren't facing toxic or non-positional attacks and Psi...or fighting AVs who punch right through your passive resistance.   The scaling passives do a great job of giving you time to run away.   But,  /SR doesn't heal or recover endurance, so it's one of the slowest leveling sets.      Once you get Elude, like in the early 30's, you basically have an "I win" button for EB's and other harder targets (just don't fight around a Quarrtz".   /SR if you put the money in, is probably one of the easiest sets to get to the point of soloing 4x8.   But honestly, if you're soloing, why spend all that time fighting?  I typically just run my DM/SR at 4x1.      

 

/Shield...I originally thought this was way better than /SR, but not anymore.   /SR is way more predictable in terms of running away and living and arguably has better mitigation.  Like /SR, Shield's lack of healing and recovery means you level at a slower rate.   Where Shield shines is in groups...and if you're soloing, you generally won't see the benefit of Phalanx.   But shield  does what /SR does with fewer powers, so that opens up more Power Pool mitigation.  If you do have millions, Shield can fairly easily cap +DEF and then it surpasses /SR.   If I were teaming, I'd say /SD wins, but solo, I'd go with /SR.

 

/Rad is good.  I'd put it behind /Regen in terms of survivability and put it ahead of /Regen in terms of ease of play.   No at as easy as /SR and /WP,  but less thinking than /Regen.  Put your Particle Shielding on auto-fire  and you can get buy with only an occasional use of Gamma Boost.    One of the toughest scrapper builds I've seen was  400+mil /Rad that had massive +Recharge and Shadowmeld.  

 

/Willpower.   Initially, I thought WP was the new and improved /Regen.  I was wrong.   /WP does great up until about the 30's.    But once you start pushing +2 mobs, you quickly realize that /WP has no big heal and you faceplant because of it.   /WP, like /Inv, wnats to fight against big groups.   But /WP doesn't have a Dull Pain or Reconstruction to recover from an Alpha or a hard hitting EB.  So soloing with /WP makes /WP under perform.   I'd also say that making a /WP build is probably one of the more difficult on account of trying to figure out which way to go with it.   Do you build for  +Regen, +Res, or +DEF?   

 

In terms of primaries, I'd say Energy Melee if you're solo.   I've played DM, Savage, Claws, Energy, and Kinetic.   EnM/Regen or EnM/Rad is going to be good at killing small groups and not having to take a knee.

 

Now.....if you're goal is running 4x8, I would not go /Regen.  If you want to set it and forget it, then avoid /Regen. 

 

If you are going to keep it at +2x1,  anything/Regen is going to be the best performer.  And in groups, you'll generally get lost of buffs.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Blackjoy

[Kinvesu]

Thank you for everyone still trying to help and throw out their info. Sorry, I have been busy in my off time trying to find a job, as I just got my Security+ certification last month and also  for some reason I wasn't notified of new posts -.-

2 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

It would help if you answered a couple of questions:

 

1.  What difficulty do you want to run at?  +1, +2, +3?

 

2.  What size groups   x1, x2, x8? 

 

3.  How hard do you want to work at staying alive?

 

4.  Will you spend more time playing 1-49 or playing at lvl 50?

 

1. and 2. I don't really know. I haven't really been past 30 on any char so I don't know what is feasible.

 

3. I don't want to work THAT hard. I mean, I want a little challenge, but I want to focus more on doing damage.

 

4. I am hoping 50 lol

 

On scrapper I am worried that my resist cap and lower base resist numbers is gonna hinder me. Like yeah, I can get capped defense, and melee defense on most armor sets in mids, but if I get hit, it's gonna hurt. Rad/rad so far seems nice, but funny enough, I got closer to dying a lot more on rad/rad than I did kat/nin on the way to 10 so far.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Kinvesu
spelling

[Kinvesu]

On 4/24/2023 at 8:33 PM, Thrax said:

Also, what keeps me interested in a character isn’t if it’s the best, or highest damage, or most survivable. It’s the theme around the toon, the concept, the combination of power sets. This is somehow true even though half my toons have the same outfit on. 
 

Play what is fun. If sucks at at first it will get better later as you get more IOs in more powers and start getting the great procs as mentioned. Unless it is /regen they it will likely still suck but I’ve heard can still be fun but I don’t see how. 

I am a very indecisive person. In mmos, it takes me days or weeks to pick a char even when there is like 7 classes. So take this game with so many power combos too many to count, you can see my predicament. I just like a lot of things. The thing that matters most to me is being able to solo when I don't team, as I am a single father of two teen kids and I have to leave a lot since I do everything on my own for them. So being able to just get on and play how I want and when I want, is key. I was hoping to find something I don't have to work too hard at to survive, aka destroy my hands or wear out my keyboard/mouse in a few weeks, and still have good st with decent aoe.

 

I see what you are saying, but for me it is a mix. Like I think staff seems cool. I am a HUGE martial arts buff irl. But I have done a lot of research over the last few months and I know on all the charts, the pylon threads and GBs melee testing, that it is one of the lowest damage wise, so I know I won't like it because of that. Even if I am interested in it. MA/shield seems awesome, but it has no heal and I always see people with /shield saying they wish they had a heal. Dark fixes that, but DM doesn't seem interesting to me in mids. So see how lame I am? haha Only build I like the numbers on in mids, is a electric/MA tanker. I got the resists I want, capped melee defense, a heal, but I don't like tanking in any game.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Kinvesu
new stuff

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm late to the party as usual.

There's some great stuff throughout this post to help point you in a direction.

 

If I were to add a suggestion for a safe scrapper powerset, and since you seem to like pairing themed powers, I would suggest you look at......Stone Melee and Stone Armor.

 

You'll get get defenses, increased damage, increased HP and overall pretty good mitigation with powers like mud pots, fault, and tremor. Not to mention an oh shit power in Geode.

 

You also mentioned you're a newer player, so take note on the forums there's guides on how to make money to fund buying things like IOs. Also once you get a toon to 50, your in-game income from drops is a lot nicer than at low levels.

 

Lastly good luck with getting the job. I've been in-between work before and it can be a pain in the ass.

[Parabola]

10 hours ago, Kinvesu said:

I am a very indecisive person. In mmos, it takes me days or weeks to pick a char even when there is like 7 classes. So take this game with so many power combos too many to count, you can see my predicament. I just like a lot of things. The thing that matters most to me is being able to solo when I don't team, as I am a single father of two teen kids and I have to leave a lot since I do everything on my own for them. So being able to just get on and play how I want and when I want, is key. I was hoping to find something I don't have to work too hard at to survive, aka destroy my hands or wear out my keyboard/mouse in a few weeks, and still have good st with decent aoe.

 

I see what you are saying, but for me it is a mix. Like I think staff seems cool. I am a HUGE martial arts buff irl. But I have done a lot of research over the last few months and I know on all the charts, the pylon threads and GBs melee testing, that it is one of the lowest damage wise, so I know I won't like it because of that. Even if I am interested in it. MA/shield seems awesome, but it has no heal and I always see people with /shield saying they wish they had a heal. Dark fixes that, but DM doesn't seem interesting to me in mids. So see how lame I am? haha Only build I like the numbers on in mids, is a electric/MA tanker. I got the resists I want, capped melee defense, a heal, but I don't like tanking in any game.

Don't worry, the choice in this game can be a bit overwhelming. I sometimes wonder if actually playing the game is just filler between time spent obsessively tinkering with builds in mids. A few pieces of advice:

 

This game is balanced well enough that there really is no one best answer (which is equal parts really good thing and infuriating!) The best AT and powerset combo will vary wildly from situation to situation and for the most part even powersets that are commonly recognized as being underperforming are not all that far behind.

 

Tests such as pylons and trapdoor are interesting metrics but they really only test how well a character is suited to pylons and trapdoor. I wouldn't try taking any pylon build I've seen out in the 'real world' as they sacrifice so much durability in the pursuit of dps. Similarly the melee testing threads are interesting information but they only tell you how the powersets perform with those builds, that driver and with a baseline secondary. Builds vary, playstyles vary and synergies between powersets can be exploited to change performance greatly.

 

A word on tanks. Tanks in this game aren't like tanks in other games. They do damage. In many cases an awful lot of damage. In fact they solo extraordinarily well and would be my 'first character' recommendation to any new player looking for a forgiving way to learn the ropes. That said there is one small caveat. Tanking in teams isn't generally all that tricky but it does tend to come with a certain level of expectation. It might not be much more than 'be willing to throw yourself at the enemy first' but it is there. I play many tanks but I generally prefer to solo them, if I want to team I jump on something else where I can be quietly lost without it being too obvious!

 

And, finally, this game is built for alting. I have tried many times to pin down a 'main' character who I would rack up the hours and badges on but in the end something else will always catch my eye and off I go. We have basically limitless character slots and as you've seen, a vast number of AT and powerset combinations to explore. I really would advise trying to not get too hung up on wanting any individual character to be the be all and end all. Nothing can do it all, it's both a blessing and a curse!

Edited April 27, 2023 by Parabola

[Nyghtmaire]

On 4/24/2023 at 11:33 PM, Thrax said:

Also, what keeps me interested in a character isn’t if it’s the best, or highest damage, or most survivable. It’s the theme around the toon, the concept, the combination of power sets. This is somehow true even though half my toons have the same outfit on. 

Oh man, you’re speaking my language. 
 

To the OP, there’s lots of info on the forums for getting influence in-game. Most hands-off is selling enhancement converters (after converting merits to converters: every merit = 3). Highly recommend spending 10-15 minutes reading through the various guides and getting up to speed. I can tell you that, anecdotally at least,  once I did that all my characters went to a self-funding model, had sufficient influence to get the main uniques (Panacea, Miracle, Numina, Kismet, PvP def and resistance, Steadfast, KB when needed, stealth IOs when needed), fund either level 25 or 30 IOs, and have at least a good cushion for adding sets while leveling. 
 

And because of this, each character became drastically more survivable and able to handle higher difficulty levels solo. (The first character I did this with was an Earth/Sonic Controller - NOT known as a strong solo character with lots of damage). If you enjoy building in Mids, this facet of the game may well bring a lot of enjoyment. Good luck!

[Blackjoy]

10 hours ago, Kinvesu said:

Thank you for everyone still trying to help and throw out their info. Sorry, I have been busy in my off time trying to find a job, as I just got my Security+ certification last month and also  for some reason I wasn't notified of new posts -.-

1. and 2. I don't really know. I haven't really been past 30 on any char so I don't know what is feasible.

 

3. I don't want to work THAT hard. I mean, I want a little challenge, but I want to focus more on doing damage.

 

4. I am hoping 50 lol

 

On scrapper I am worried that my resist cap and lower base resist numbers is gonna hinder me. Like yeah, I can get capped defense, and melee defense on most armor sets in mids, but if I get hit, it's gonna hurt. Rad/rad so far seems nice, but funny enough, I got closer to dying a lot more on rad/rad than I did kat/nin on the way to 10 so far.

Then I would suggest ET/Rad.   Impressive single target damage, a little bit of driving on the secondary side.  But good +recovery and +regen.   You can color your pom poms to match your radiation.

 

If you're willing to suffer early levels of fatigue and low health and put in some effort into making a build,  /Shield at lvl 50 does well, because you'll be doing more TFs and Phalanx wil come on.  But you need to be careful on something like a 4x8 ITF where Against All Odds will draw a lot of aggro.

 

But f you really like MA....then I would suffer through the low levels, spends some money to cap +DEF and solve endurance issues, and go MA/SR.   I think visually it's pretty nifty.  MA/Shield is probably pretty cool too.    Just buy the Double XP buff and camp in the police station and you'll be past 30 fairly quickly.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Blackjoy

[Frosticus]

My titan/nin basically breezed through. Your first available attack is a cone that boost defense. Vs 2-3 targets the odds of it missing are very low. Additionally nearly every other attack has some solid control aspect.

 

I know people cooled down on titan after it was brought down from the stratosphere of over poweredness, but it still does a lot of damage, great aoe, good control and is really easy to use.

 

 

[ninja surprise]

8 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

Then I would suggest ET/Rad.  

 

Is ET supposed to be Electrical Melee or Energy Melee?

 

18 hours ago, Kinvesu said:

Only build I like the numbers on in mids, is a electric/MA tanker. I got the resists I want, capped melee defense, a heal, but I don't like tanking in any game.

 

Don't think about Tanks like that. Tanks in CoH aren't low-damage meatshields.

Think about it as "deciding which order you acquire your powers". Scrappers get attacks first and defense way later. Tanks get defense first and attacks later.

Also, Tanks on Homecoming get higher target caps and by default they do more damage than Brutes without fury. How this shakes out is on a Scrapper you can ofen one-shot things ; on a Tank you'll kick it two or three times.

 

Here's an example from Martial Arts (looking at the Info in the New Character screen):

Scrapper's Dragon's Tail: 8' radius 10 targets, 12 damage

Tank's Dragon's Tail: 8' radius, 16 targets, 11 damage

Tank's Storm Kick: 13 damage and +10% Defense to every position and type (except vs Psi and Toxic)

Scrapper Storm Kick: 13.5 damage, no +Def

 

So with a Tank you can focus on attacking the boss with everything you have and all the minions in the spawn will be defeated as a side-effect of your AoEs.

 

If you want easy-mode, make an Invulnerable/Dark Melee Tank, Super Reflexes/DM, or Invulnerable/Martial Arts since you like MA. Invuln/MA is super easy to cap everything, resists and defense. And you get a big self-heal in Dull Pain. Also you can take Stealth and pretend to be a Ninja.

A big benefit to being a solo Tank is that you auto-taunt everything around you, and every enemy comes to you to fight. On a Scrapper you'll frequently be chasing down runners.

 

But nearly any Scrapper combo can do well. Ninjutsu is a great set but the difference between 30% Def and 40% Def is huge, and going from 40% to 45% reduces the amount of damage you take by half. Post your build and maybe we can give some tips to be more survivable. Until you're soft-capped you'll take a lot of damage.

 

And congrats on your Sec+! I'm in infosec too, great career when you get in.

 

Edit: here's some peeps rejoicing in their SR/DM tanks: 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by ninja surprise

[Blackjoy]

Sorry, ET is suppose to be Energy Melee

[Kinvesu]

8 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

Sorry, ET is suppose to be Energy Melee

It's ok, I knew what you meant cause I saw you say pom poms lol During my research I saw that is what every one uses to describe it. 

 

On 4/27/2023 at 7:11 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

If I were to add a suggestion for a safe scrapper powerset, and since you seem to like pairing themed powers, I would suggest you look at......Stone Melee and Stone Armor.

I tried, really really hard to make that work in mids and I just couldn't get anything I liked even without taking fault (which I read all over the forums that it wasn't worth taking). I could not get s/l resists past 53% without sacrificing too much damage/survivability elsewhere. I couldn't get past 38% f/c defense either, but that wasn't a big deal since I had capped resists on those. With fault, there is no way to even come close to what I want. On the mids builds I make, I try to get 3 great ST attacks for a chain and 2 aoes, 1 or 2 from the set and/or 1 from the ancillary/epic. Stone/Stone just seemed like I was gonna suck in aoe with just tremor.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Kinvesu
stuff

[InvaderStych]

16 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

Don't think about Tanks like that. Tanks in CoH aren't low-damage meatshields.

Think about it as "deciding which order you acquire your powers". Scrappers get attacks first and defense way later. Tanks get defense first and attacks later.

Also, Tanks on Homecoming get higher target caps and by default they do more damage than Brutes without fury. How this shakes out is on a Scrapper you can ofen one-shot things ; on a Tank you'll kick it two or three times.

 

Here's an example from Martial Arts (looking at the Info in the New Character screen):

Scrapper's Dragon's Tail: 8' radius 10 targets, 12 damage

Tank's Dragon's Tail: 8' radius, 16 targets, 11 damage

Tank's Storm Kick: 13 damage and +10% Defense to every position and type (except vs Psi and Toxic)

Scrapper Storm Kick: 13.5 damage, no +Def

 

So with a Tank you can focus on attacking the boss with everything you have and all the minions in the spawn will be defeated as a side-effect of your AoEs.

 

City of Tanks in a nutshell. 🤣

[SeraphimKensai]

10 hours ago, Kinvesu said:

It's ok, I knew what you meant cause I saw you say pom poms lol During my research I saw that is what every one uses to describe it. 

 

I tried, really really hard to make that work in mids and I just couldn't get anything I liked even without taking fault (which I read all over the forums that it wasn't worth taking). I could not get s/l resists past 53% without sacrificing too much damage/survivability elsewhere. I couldn't get past 38% f/c defense either, but that wasn't a big deal since I had capped resists on those. With fault, there is no way to even come close to what I want. On the mids builds I make, I try to get 3 great ST attacks for a chain and 2 aoes, 1 or 2 from the set and/or 1 from the ancillary/epic. Stone/Stone just seemed like I was gonna suck in aoe with just tremor.

Stone Armor on a scrapper usually works by stacking defense for S/L/E/N/P and getting res for F/C/T. Additionally you can get some slow res and recharge and then rock Earth's Embrace to top off HP as needed.

 

You shouldn't need to go out of your way to stack S/L resistance. And also with Shadow Meld you can have that up reasonably 50% of the time fairly easily for ~20% defense to all.

Regarding AoE, you can get Tremor down to a ~4 second cool down which should be a low enough recharge to supplement a single target rotation including Seismic Smash, and your mallets.

[Thorazine]

DM/Regen has been my most enjoyable and survivable character to date, now at 48.

 

Savage/Bio has also been lots of fun and very survivable.

 

I'm not a numbers guy, just my personal experience.

[ninja surprise]

On 5/1/2023 at 12:54 PM, Thorazine said:

Savage/Bio has also been lots of fun and very survivable.

 

 

Savage/Bio is a hoot!

[wjrasmussen]

Claws/SR.

[ClawsandEffect]

I'll share some of the things I think about when deciding on powersets for Scrappers. 

 

1) Is it defense based, resistance based, or a blend of the two? 

 

Defense: SR, Ninjitsu, Shield, Energy Aura, Ice Armor

Resistance: Electric Armor, Fiery Aura, Radiation Armor

Blend: Willpower, Bio Armor, Invulnerability, Stone Armor

Regen: Regen

 

I prefer the defense based or blended sets for Scrappers. With a resistance cap of 75% and lower HP than Tankers or Brutes, I've never gotten good results out of pure resist sets. YMMV, but that's my experience. 

 

Primaries: First and foremost....does it look cool? You're going to be spending a lot of time watching those animations. Best to pick a set you won't get tired of. Street Justice has my personal favorite animations, but opinions will vary. Damage output is important, but if you hate the way it looks you won't have fun playing the character. 

 

My suggestion for a combo to try: Street Justice/Ninjitsu.

 

It has positional defense, which is generally superior to typed in most cases (it will defend against things typed can't). It has a click endurance refill power on a fairly short recharge. It has a self heal that is roughly equal to Reconstruction from Regen. If you hit the softcap (fairly easy with this set), you can skip the last 2 powers in Ninjitsu and be just fine. It also isn't as slot hungry as some other secondaries. You'll feel a little squishy until you get closer to the softcap (45% is your goal), but once you get there you'll feel pretty sturdy. 

 

Street Justice is my pick for primary here, but honestly you can go with whatever you like the look of and you'll be fine. Ninjitsu doesn't really lend itself to one primary over another. 

[bustacap]

EA belongs in the blended armor set. At full build you are SC to typed and pretty high resist across the board. It reminds me of stone without the proc and better endurance. And it has a click to fill the end bar even though it doesn't really need it. 

 

The thing with the blended and def sets they really want the 2 +def IO's and weave. Shield, SR and INV do not help you with the endurance for tough and weave making them a little tough to level.

 

A lot of the people here really like RAD. ON scrapper it feels like the squishiest set made unless you feed it IOs.