Empathy, who dares to say this set is not all that ? 😊😄😊 Feel this -->

[Voltak]

So I made a comeback to the game.  I was away with beta testing Baldur's Gate 3, Diablo 4, and playing War Thunder.  
Curse all them three because they took my time away from my most beloved game until I die. 

As I came back to the game, I wanted something a bit more challenging because  if it's too easy, I get bored.  
So , what did I come up with?

FIVE (5) man team, FOUR STARS ITF, with the condition that we MUST COMPLETE in under 90 minutes or it does not count. 

So, how the hell, do I put a doable team to cover the absolutes, the must have stuff ?
Well, the original idea was a four man team.  
I decided that since it was a first try at a medium size team vs one of the hardest content of the game, 4 man is somehow short on all we need to make a run UNDER 90 minutes, so I am going to reserve a four man team three star ITF next , under 90 minutes. 

Under 15 deaths, since there are 5 of us. 
Under 90 mins, under 15 deaths. 

So, the team make up I decided was 

2 Cold Corruptors 
One Proc Tank, like Bopper's famous tank builds. 

TWO EMPATHY characters. 

One Defender, another Corruptor. 

So, why empathy ?

The most significant reason, which puts empathy heads and shoulders above any other buffer/healing set IN THIS SPECIFIC TASK or this specific goal  is ....

FORTITUDE 

Two cold corruptors provide defensive double shields to only 3 members of the team.  
That's when Fortitude comes in.  

Fortitude provides double defensive shields to the folks who cannot buff themselves and otherwise would only have one defensive shield.  When doing 4 star ITF, that's not enough especially since cold shields cannot be power boosted

Fortitude for all castings can be power boosted, giving defense shield double or greater than  the strength of cold shields , and with enough recharge every single one of your target for the buffs can be power boosted defensive shields 

Also, then you have a combined damage buffs of 62% , which is a significant damage boost.  

Another reason that helps Empathy for these extreme challenges. 

Empathy is a set and forget buffing set , allowing you lot a of time to blast. 

Double regen auras that set and forget, with the time right, you can set it so the regen is overlapping and continuous , with no gaps. 

Then we have adrenaline boost to get the cold corruptors MAXIMUM recharge buff that we can muster to give them for the debuffs and the nukes , permanent AB for the win. 

With VIGOR and with INCANDESCENCE  incarnates, just the healing aura of my Empathy defender, I can heal the squishies  for about their FULL BASE health every TWO seconds.   That's not adding the corruptor's aura either. 


In part four of the ITF, 4 star, I needed to split from the team, it was my job to baby sit Imperious while the team splits to kill off barriers , Imperious was tanking Rommy.    At four star , the EBs and Rommy hit like nukes and it took me hitting absorb pain just to save Imp from death. few times, absorb pain for 10,000+ healing !! 

I was the main healer, the corruptor was back up and the DMG. He was played by my good friend and excellent player @FUBARczar
@Spagetti Betty was our proc tank.  He did a phenomenal job at tanking, as usual. 
Did we make it ?





Below is another build from a full team run 

I think I also posted the build but I am not sure it is the current one I have now, which includes the teleports 
 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Voltak

[Zect]

Emp is really great, and very strong in small group situations like the one you describe. For hardmode in particular, the long lasting tohit from power boosted fort cannot be underestimated and wrecks the defenses of 4* mobs.

 

Unfortunately, like masterminds, 99.9% of people play it wrong. A good emp can fort 6-7 people (all but the emp themselves). Most emps wander around doing cringetastic nonsense like putting heal aura on auto, and can barely keep one person forted!

[Voltak]

15 minutes ago, Zect said:

Emp is really great, and very strong in small group situations like the one you describe. For hardmode in particular, the long lasting tohit from power boosted fort cannot be underestimated and wrecks the defenses of 4* mobs.

 

Unfortunately, like masterminds, 99.9% of people play it wrong. A good emp can fort 6-7 people (all but the emp themselves). Most emps wander around doing cringetastic nonsense like putting heal aura on auto, and can barely keep one person forted!

Good post.   Thanks.  In our case, I did heave the healing aura almost in auto.  But there were very concrete and logical reasons to do that.  
If we ever get caught in strong alphas having that aura always going off is good, but no excuse to avoid paying attention carefully, because as most of us know, if the cascade is coming, you got have those back ups ready and firing for greater buffs/heals 

[Hedgefund2]

"Set it and forget it" is exactly the opposite of how I'd describe the Emp Corr I just retired (after T4ing all, Vet level 30 I think).  I HATED big teams, my global was high enough to Fort 6 teammates, maybe even all 7, with half being PBd.  Someone got a perma AB, whoever I deemed worthy.  I have to confess I skimmed the OP very quickly but if you were just PB + Forting one or both Colds, then I can see that being "set and forget" but if you want the max spreading out Fort, that takes a lot of micromanaging yourself.  Note - I may just suck at Emping, who knows, I never will know since I'm done with the set forever now.

[Voltak]

3 hours ago, Hedgefund2 said:

"Set it and forget it" is exactly the opposite of how I'd describe the Emp Corr I just retired (after T4ing all, Vet level 30 I think).  I HATED big teams, my global was high enough to Fort 6 teammates, maybe even all 7, with half being PBd.  Someone got a perma AB, whoever I deemed worthy.  I have to confess I skimmed the OP very quickly but if you were just PB + Forting one or both Colds, then I can see that being "set and forget" but if you want the max spreading out Fort, that takes a lot of micromanaging yourself.  Note - I may just suck at Emping, who knows, I never will know since I'm done with the set forever now.

Well, this is easy.  
You see how I organized the team?
I just go down the list. 
The AB was already assigned before we proceeded. 
I have enough recharge to give PB'd fortitude to all 4 of them. 

I pop fortitude only when PB is recharged.  Fortitude last that long for me given my recharge. 

With the regen auras permanently given to the team and no gaps, the healing department is set and forget, with the healing aura coming in like almost auto in times when the heat is up like the sun.   Absorb pain and heal other was used very few times.  

With Vigor and Incan incarnates  and the support core buff to also buff healing, healing is NUCLEAR levels high.  

We have enough buffs to be able to stay calm and do things smoothly.  Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. 

Read the whole post carefully.  I think I clarified things a bit more. 

Take a look at my other post as well, linked. 

Once you get your skill level up and you got your optimized routine down, you will see it is all smooth and under control.  

EDIT -- 
I did not mean this in a derogative way.  

I clarify this in the post below 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Voltak

[Hedgefund2]

Lol, congrats on your "skill level" at this game that's so demanding of a high skill level.

As for reading all the other posts, no thanks.

[Voltak]

53 minutes ago, Hedgefund2 said:

Lol, congrats on your "skill level" at this game that's so demanding of a high skill level.

As for reading all the other posts, no thanks.

I did not mean this in a derogative way.   I mean to say that as a player develops skill with the power sets, knows the content, and so on, things in empathy can pretty much be set and forget, the fortitude issue I addressed above - PB is recharged, ok , now pop fortitude.  

I mean no harm, no foul. 

handshake 

[Linea]

Binds and organizing the team list really helps, ...

at least until someone loses connection and you have to rebind.  The latter is where mixing binds and macros helps, you can just drag and drop the macros to reorder.  A logical order, and binds such that it is effectively: recharge numpad1, recharge numpad2, recharge numpad3, recharge numpad4, loop.  I take a few minutes to organize and set my binds at the beginning of each team.

[Doomguide2005]

      Well done.  I enjoyed seeing the outcome of the lively chat in channel leading up to this effort.  I really need to put more effort into getting my Empath fully incarnated and IO'd plus dip my toes more in HM (and get back to knowing and using binds).

[Voltak]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:03 PM, Doomguide2005 said:

      Well done.  I enjoyed seeing the outcome of the lively chat in channel leading up to this effort.  I really need to put more effort into getting my Empath fully incarnated and IO'd plus dip my toes more in HM (and get back to knowing and using binds).

You were indeed part of the chat !   We ran some ideas, came up with possible scenarios for a challenge, I pushed the empathy idea and then we tried to see what could blend. 

It would have been nice for you to join us but , Doom, please join me for the next one, sir. 

[noogens]

Would an illusion/emp controller make more sense for a dedicated healer/buffer?  I know the heal/buff numbers wouldn't be as high on a controller but I'm thinking that you could just pop out phantom army for the passive damage and ghetto tanking while you go full emp mode.   I don't have a ton of experience doing hard mode stuff so I'm just curious.

[Doomguide2005]

33 minutes ago, noogens said:

Would an illusion/emp controller make more sense for a dedicated healer/buffer?  I know the heal/buff numbers wouldn't be as high on a controller but I'm thinking that you could just pop out phantom army for the passive damage and ghetto tanking while you go full emp mode.   I don't have a ton of experience doing hard mode stuff so I'm just curious.

Good question.  I don't have the experience to answer either.  You are pretty much limiting your epic to Primal Forces Mastery though as it's the only Controller epic with a power boost type power.  Probably comes down to how much less your max heals are.  At 4☆ some of the often unresistable damage is pretty insane.

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, noogens said:

Would an illusion/emp controller make more sense for a dedicated healer/buffer?  I know the heal/buff numbers wouldn't be as high on a controller but I'm thinking that you could just pop out phantom army for the passive damage and ghetto tanking while you go full emp mode.   I don't have a ton of experience doing hard mode stuff so I'm just curious.

 Make more sense ?  No.   The numbers are not quite as high.  A defender with Incandescence and Vigor will heal about as high as your entire base hit points every two seconds in an AoE.   That's not counting the buffs that are power boosted and even the heals can be power boosted.  

Second, it would be much better to ditch the controller and place a Corruptor there.  That's exactly what I did.  I have a corruptor fire/empathy in the team.  Before I place a controller, I would rather place a corruptor over a controller any day.  

Also I dont think Phantom Army is doing as much dmg as a Defender who is blasting and can select and pick his targets.  
Also the Defender is more tanky and his defensive modifiers are similar or exactly the same as those of the Tanker AT class. 

Now, paying attention to what I am not saying.  I am not saying it cannot work. 
But I am saying that it would not make more sense. 
What does make more sense mean?

Do you mean to say a controller would do the job better than the Defender ?

Another thing, outside of part two of the four star ITF, the mastermind option would increase the DPS exponentially more if you get rid of the controller.  
We have done the ITF four star with some pretty good MM players.  
The dmg they bring to the other parts of the ITF is simply colossal 
With two empaths and all the buffs, those pets are a real menace.  MMs melt AVs like no other class in the game.  It's no wonder they hold record pylon killing times. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Voltak

[noogens]

13 minutes ago, Voltak said:

 Make more sense ?  No.   The numbers are not quite as high.  A defender with Incandescence and Vigor will heal about as high as your entire base hit points every two seconds in an AoE.   That's not counting the buffs that are power boosted and even the heals can be power boosted.  

Second, it would be much better to ditch the controller and place a Corruptor there.  That's exactly what I did.  I have a corruptor fire/empathy in the team.  Before I place a controller, I would rather place a corruptor over a controller any day.  

Also I dont think Phantom Army is doing as much dmg as a Defender who is blasting and can select and pick his targets.  
Also the Defender is more tanky and his defensive modifiers are similar or exactly the same as those of the Tanker AT class. 

Now, paying attention to what I am not saying.  I am not saying it cannot work. 
But I am saying that it would not make more sense. 
What does make more sense mean?

Do you mean to say a controller would do the job better than the Defender ?

 

I was thinking about more in the context of being strictly dedicated to healing and buffing, meaning very little doing anything else including blasting.  PA can do non-trivial damage against a single target and provide a little aggro-control.  But after watching your videos, it seems that there's too many chaotic swarms of mobs for PA to matter much.  

[biostem]

3 hours ago, noogens said:

Would an illusion/emp controller make more sense for a dedicated healer/buffer? 

I think the better question is just how deep into the "healer/buffer" role you want to go.  Defenders get more out of leadership, for instance, which benefits your team, but something like plant control could bring a bit more to the table via spirit tree.  At the same time, while Empathy can bring the RAs, Fort, and AB, Pain Domination can bring world of pain, anguishing cry, and painbringer.  It all comes down to your individual playstyle, but from my perspective, I prefer pain dom...

[Linea]

Dedicated healing isn't overly helpful.  You're leveraging incarnates such that you're full healing anyone in range semi-passively every couple of seconds ... so blast away with all the rest of your resources. Buff as you alpha into the groups, or mid-group right after an alpha nuke, or just before you omega out to the next group; depending on which works best for the team.  But regardless you should have a lot of resources left that can be focused into offense.  (Unless you are baby-sitting Impy, *face palm*, I swear he's more trouble than he's worth 90% of the time.  But if you can succeed baby sitting him and point him in the right direction, he does pack a wallop.)

 

"can select and pick his targets" - I like illusion, it's one I do run from time to time, but unless it's a relatively slow or kill almost all run, not being able to focus fire is a serious negative.  Also, your pets are not completely immune in the 4-star runs, and the passive taunts are not as effective on all targets.  The defender version can perform equally well in speed runs, fast runs, normal runs, and slow kill all runs.  Illusion is going to be a specialty pick.  You can definitely make it work, but defender would be my pick, then Corruptor.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Linea

[Zect]

The question has already been answered so I’m just here to add this: 

 

7 hours ago, noogens said:

I was thinking about more in the context of being strictly dedicated to healing and buffing, meaning very little doing anything else including blasting.

 

This kind of toon is of very little value in hard mode. Dps is very important especially in the higher echelons of hardmodes and an emp/sonic/soul blows anything your healbot can do out of the water.

 

It’s why hold specific mechanics (eg. Green mitos) need to be given more prominence if HC ever wants trollers and to a lesser extent doms to be worth bringing over fenders and blasters. I always thought holding the hostless/brickernauts should pause the countdown.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Zect

[Voltak]

11 hours ago, biostem said:

I think the better question is just how deep into the "healer/buffer" role you want to go.  Defenders get more out of leadership, for instance, which benefits your team, but something like plant control could bring a bit more to the table via spirit tree.  At the same time, while Empathy can bring the RAs, Fort, and AB, Pain Domination can bring world of pain, anguishing cry, and painbringer.  It all comes down to your individual playstyle, but from my perspective, I prefer pain dom...

Pain does not have the auras which are invaluable. 
The team wide Regen Auras are tremendous when we were facing the ambushes in part two and part 3 

Speed Run at 4 stars , in the caves, ambush after ambush after ambush, quickly running through the caves, only 5 members of the team...  regen at max level for the whole team... that's glory right there. 
There is absolutely no replacement for this. 
There is no replacement for Fortitude either if your goal is help out reach higher and higher defensive numbers which, in the ITF four star, it is extremely useful and valuable.

Part 3 was another hellish experience , ambushes were equal or worse. 
 

Now, remember, this is for ITF 4 Star, defensive requirements for this far surpasses the rest of the way easy game of PvE CoH 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Voltak

[Voltak]

13 hours ago, noogens said:

 

I was thinking about more in the context of being strictly dedicated to healing and buffing, meaning very little doing anything else including blasting.  PA can do non-trivial damage against a single target and provide a little aggro-control.  But after watching your videos, it seems that there's too many chaotic swarms of mobs for PA to matter much.  

Part two is all about speed , hit the cysts quickly , prepare to survive 4-6 ambushes coming at you, while you don't try to kill any NPCs , just the cysts.  
No inspirations allowed, no temps... it's chaotic 

[purplereigning]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:34 AM, Linea said:

Binds and organizing the team list really helps, ...

at least until someone loses connection and you have to rebind.  The latter is where mixing binds and macros helps, you can just drag and drop the macros to reorder.  A logical order, and binds such that it is effectively: recharge numpad1, recharge numpad2, recharge numpad3, recharge numpad4, loop.  I take a few minutes to organize and set my binds at the beginning of each team.

I'd love to know more about your macro strategy for Fort 🙂 

[Linea]

8 hours ago, purplereigning said:

I'd love to know more about your macro strategy for Fort 🙂 

 

Good luck ... You'll need it ...

Edited May 25, 2023 by Linea

[Nemu]

On 5/22/2023 at 4:55 PM, Linea said:

Dedicated healing isn't overly helpful.  You're leveraging incarnates such that you're full healing anyone in range semi-passively every couple of seconds ... so blast away with all the rest of your resources. Buff as you alpha into the groups, or mid-group right after an alpha nuke, or just before you omega out to the next group; depending on which works best for the team.  But regardless you should have a lot of resources left that can be focused into offense.  (Unless you are baby-sitting Impy, *face palm*, I swear he's more trouble than he's worth 90% of the time.  But if you can succeed baby sitting him and point him in the right direction, he does pack a wallop.)

 

"can select and pick his targets" - I like illusion, it's one I do run from time to time, but unless it's a relatively slow or kill almost all run, not being able to focus fire is a serious negative.  Also, your pets are not completely immune in the 4-star runs, and the passive taunts are not as effective on all targets.  The defender version can perform equally well in speed runs, fast runs, normal runs, and slow kill all runs.  Illusion is going to be a specialty pick.  You can definitely make it work, but defender would be my pick, then Corruptor.

 

Good breakdown but what happens when you add Kurt Angle to the mix?

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 hour ago, Nemu said:

Good breakdown but what happens when you add Kurt Angle to the mix?

Your chances of healing drastic go down. See the 3 way at 4* ITF, you got a 33 1/3 chance of healing, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of healing, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't heal me and he's not even gonna try!
So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of healing at 4* ITF. But then you take my 75% chance of healing, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of healing at 4* ITF. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell team wipes for you at 4* ITF!

[Voltak]

5 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Your chances of healing drastic go down. See the 3 way at 4* ITF, you got a 33 1/3 chance of healing, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of healing, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't heal me and he's not even gonna try!
So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of healing at 4* ITF. But then you take my 75% chance of healing, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of healing at 4* ITF. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell team wipes for you at 4* ITF!

Undertaker enters the room.... 

[Spaghetti Betty]

30 minutes ago, Voltak said:

Undertaker enters the room....