Tanker questions

[OxfordCalc]

HI, 

 

I have a 24 Inv/Stj tanker. So far I enjoy playing him. Today I joined a Posi 2 TF and my Rib Cracker skill was grayed out. I assume this is because I was too low level for it - I think the TF was 14 and I took the skill at 20. 

 

If I respec out of my current finisher Sweeping Cross into Spinning Strike, does this mean Spinning Strike is grayed out when the TF is low level? If I take the skill at 24, then any TF below 19 and I lose my finisher?  

 

Also he is constantly running out of endurance. Do I take more Endo inspirations? Put some Reduced Endurance IOs in my attacks? 

 

I'm just using IOs now. I want to wait a bit before investing in set IOs. 

[Hjarki]

When you're running a task force, you're limited to powers you obtained at or before the task force's maximum level (similar restrictions exist for exemplar'ing). So normally you want to prioritize the abilities you really need at low levels.

 

In many cases, a Tanker running Posi 1 will have a crippled ST rotation and often no AE at all.

 

In terms of endurance, there's only so much you can do. For sets like Invulnerability, you'll normally want to add some endurance reduction into your toggles. You'll take the uniques like Performance Shifter, Miracle and Panacea in Stamina/Health (Numina's also goes there but it won't work at Posi 1 levels).

[Psyonico]

I'll throw out there to make sure you slot an end reduction in your attacks too.

 

I always slot 1 accuracy, 1 end redux first, then damage

[Captain Fabulous]

Yup, 3 slot Stamina with endurance modifications and put an end reducer in every attack and toggle power. If you do DFB or DIB you can also get a recovery buff that will help with endurance. There are also a number of global IOs that help, but they're pricey.

[ZemX]

Whenever you are exemplared to a lower level whether by a TF or a regular team, you may use powers you took up to five levels ABOVE the exemplar level.  e.g. On a Posi 1 being run at level 15, you can use powers you took up to level 20.  So that's a big advantage.  

 

As for endurance, this is a good reference:

 

At a minimum, go for the Panacea proc in Health (if you can afford it) and a Performance Shifter proc in Stamina (these aren't too expensive)  Invuln doesn't have any built-in endurance features, so you probably want to add Miracle Unique to Health and an EndMod in Stamina after that.  If you're pressed for cash, you can search up several threads on how to make money fast, not the least of which is searching for @Yomo Kimyata's giveaway. 🤪 But there are several others that tell you how to do it on your own.  Making the few million necessary for a few of these unique IOs is well worth it.

 

As for slotting endurance reduction, this is going to be the most benefit in whatever is using the most endurance.   That is typically attacks.  Though there are some really endurance heavy toggles out there, most are not.  Invuln's armor toggles use about 0.26end/s each.  For comparison, a single target attack typically uses 1 end/sec all by itself, if it's activated every time it is available.  If you have three attacks... that's 3 end/sec.  Rough estimate.  Granted, this is only while you are attacking.  But still, your three Invuln armor toggles are using less endurance than ONE of your attacks.  Slot endurance reduction in attacks before toggles.

 

Even so, I'd go 1 acc and 2 dmg before slotting an endrdx in attacks.  Reason being, you have to do the same damage either way to end the fight.  Slotting damage means you need to use fewer activations of your attacks to defeat a given enemy.  This gives you the option of either burning end to put that enemy down quick or taking it easy and slowing your attacks down to conserve end if it's running low.  

 

After you've done that in all your attacks, maybe consider slotting an endrdx in toggles.  It's going to provide the least noticeable benefit is all.  Toggles DO run all the time, to be fair.  Slotting end redux in them might help with recovery between fights.  But again, think about what it's buying you.  In one of your armor toggles, a single end redux is only giving you about 4.2 end/min.  Compare that to the other stuff on that endurance cheat sheet thread I linked.  It's not a lot.  You definitely what to do the stuff listed there first that can give you 10 to 15 or more end/min each.  Only after all that consider slotting end in toggles.

[Uun]

21 hours ago, Hjarki said:

When you're running a task force, you're limited to powers you obtained at or before the task force's maximum level (similar restrictions exist for exemplar'ing).

You lose access to powers obtained more than 5 levels above your combat level. Your combat level would be lower of the maximum level for the task force or the leader's level. For example, the maximum level for Posi 2 is 16, but if the leader was lvl 14 the entire team would be exemplared to that level for the duration of the TF (and you would lose access to powers obtained at lvl 20).

[Sanguinesun]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:21 AM, OxfordCalc said:

HI, 

 

I have a 24 Inv/Stj tanker. So far I enjoy playing him. Today I joined a Posi 2 TF and my Rib Cracker skill was grayed out. I assume this is because I was too low level for it - I think the TF was 14 and I took the skill at 20. 

 

If I respec out of my current finisher Sweeping Cross into Spinning Strike, does this mean Spinning Strike is grayed out when the TF is low level? If I take the skill at 24, then any TF below 19 and I lose my finisher?  

 

Also he is constantly running out of endurance. Do I take more Endo inspirations? Put some Reduced Endurance IOs in my attacks? 

 

I'm just using IOs now. I want to wait a bit before investing in set IOs. 

 

1. Dont worry on trying to respec whilst you're leveling 1-50 as a general rule.  Wait to respec at 50 AND only once you've decided on the post 50 build you wish to use (ie with set enhancers ATO's etc) AND once you have a certain amount of those enhancers already ready to go.

 

Only caveat to that would be if you made some horrendous mistake (like taking 4 travel powers or something similar causes your build's effectivity to dramatically suffer do to a lack of powers.

 

2. Yes if you switch at what level certain powers are taken via a respec, yes it will cause it to be unable to use those powers potentially if there's a mission/taskforce that is at a level below that of the level the power was taken.  This is normal.

 

3.  Per point 2... and somewhat related to point 1,   low level Task forces and missions are pretty much not something most people worry on being optimal (or even close to being) optimal for.  Almost everyone is devoid of individually strong effectivity in their builds not just in the early levels but even later levels due to a host of factors.  Being on a team mitigates this and yes folks do die as they go.  A lot of that too depends on both group dynamics and the specific missions being done.  Posi 1 especially and posi 2  somewhat are very very common for causing challenges for teams, especially ones that the leader misjudges the dynamics of the team for as boneheadedly sets to a difficulty higher than the team is capable of handling and other factors.

 

In other words, it is probably better to not be trying to match those missions in terms of skills taken in general.

 

4.  Almost all AT's have significant end issues while leveling.  This is very normal, even if you have decent enhancers.  If you're slotting standard IO's before level 27, keep in mind that until you hit 30, those IO's are less in % than then benchmark of optimized SO's.  Set enhancers do not meaningfully mitigate that issue.

 

That said then, consider level 27 the breakpoint.  Once you can slot 30 IO's n such, you're in the same boat as everyone else really.  

 

As for set enhancers, I would frugally recommend sticking with just standard IO's to save you costs, improve the effectivity of the toon etc once its hit 50 to start delving into set enhancers.  Only caveat to that can be with certain proc enhancers that may be of benefit while you level that really wont change once you're 50(ie not needing to be changed out).

 

Also at 24, you still do not have all your powers you'll be using. End will continue to be a challenge.

 

Thus learn how to better mitigate end issues.  For example, you do not need to be running sprint and stacking the p2w run with it constantly in mission and fighting. That's wasted end.  Same with also remembering to turn off other travel powers like super jump, etc.  Use them sparingly only when you need.

 

Also, you do not need to constantly be hitting.  Sounds contrarian but its true.  Orange circle sets are rather infamous for making players feel obligated to click the powers as soon as the circle's up and ready to go.  Since you know that you're not end optimal while you level, slow the pace of your dancing so to speak so you dont tucker yourself out.  As a tank you're more in the lower levels an alpha strike soaker/have mobs initially focus on you to various degrees.  A gungho blaster or similar of course is going to peel off real fast aggro from you but that's on them.

 

Stamina.  Slot up and put end mods properly in your stamina.  People sometimes dont pay attention to doing that.  Additionally sometimes putting more end redux in your toggles vs the the defense resistance etc more may be wiser too to start off, again, you're only effective if you're up and fighting.  If you got no end and toggles crash and you cant hit, you're ineffective for the team.

 

Inspirations.  If you're not chewing your blue berries(ie the endurance ones) at a good pace, and you're not converting other ones you get into blue berries, you need to start getting into the habit of doing so. Keep some orange/purps as needed and a set of a rez/mind(lavender color) one if you die and none can rez on your team but the rest convert to blues for now if end is constantly dropping too fast(even after being mindful of the above).

 

If your play style doesnt change, you may also need to consider going into the energy epic pool to help offset your end issues too before hitting 50 and or after post 50 with your post 50 build(unless you decide to park the toon at 50).

 

 

 

[tidge]

I don't think there is anything wrong with using a respec before level 50; on the contrary there are often powers that can be taken for "test drives" (even with minimal slotting, as you level).

 

Specific to Tankers: My experience has often been that early tier primary powers (defense/resistance toggles) often do very little (even with slotting, modulo Global IO pieces) for the Tanker at low levels... so I wouldn't fault anyone for downplaying primary power choices and concentrating more on the secondary(*1)... later when you feel like you have a better performing attack chain (in my experience: mostly this comes from slotting) ... then maybe a player will want to respec (in the mid 20s?) to have a more "classic" looking set of power selections?(*2)

 

(*1) I feel that some players of Tankers skip or delay Taunt because t can feel like a dangerous choice for a newbie Tanker: why not take an Attack or something Defensively instead of something that is not going to do damage and will also draw more aggro? I can excuse this, but only to a point. Let me simply write that I believe that Taunt (as opposed to Confront or Provoke) is crucially important to being the best possible Tanker, and if  its choice was delayed until the mid 20s (or later), it's worth using a respec to get it back into the build as early as possible.

 

(*2) Again, strictly from my experience... which is based a LOT on playing different ATs through content for XP (as opposed to power-levelng dozens of levels at a time) is that while leveling I often taken powers that won't be in a final build or I take powers in a different order than I want in the final build. The former could be because some sort of pool power is offering me something I wouldn't otherwise have until an epic power level; an example of the latter is taking powers early explicitly as mules for IOs... in a final build I usually delay mules until the final power choices, but sometimes I want those global IOs ASAP.

[OxfordCalc]

Thanks for all the replies everybody! They really helped out. 

 

I did slot up some EndRdx into my attacks and that helped out a lot. I also started only using two builders instead of three, and I hardly ever ran out of endurance. Turning off Athletic Sprint helps too. 

 

I have an alt busy on following the guides to make money. Two people in a row gave her 1,000,000 influence, so she has seed capital. Thank you to those generous supporters of level 2 toons wandering around looking for a DFB. I'm wondering if I should turn down future offers? 

 

I noticed an IO enhancement was going for 88k, and it was only about 50k total to make it at the crafting table. It does seem to take time to run to the SG portal, get into the base, find the crafting table in the gigantic base some SGs have set up. So I guess some people are in a hurry? The crafter toon registered her own SG, with only the default room and crafting table to save some time. And I found the ATO's. Yikes 100 merits. Each. The guides say to convert the Merits to Enhancement Converters and sell on AH, so I'll do that for now. 

 

Looking over a bunch of builds, it seems folks drop Heavy Blow instead of Sweeping Cross. I made up a new build and respecced, dropping Heavy blow and taking Combat Readiness. The plan was to only use sweeping cross on low level stuff, but if Spinning Strike is off cool down, Sweeping Cross gets the nod. The animation for Spinning Strike is pretty cool. 

 

Respeccing did show how many DOs and SOs I had and that most were out of date. I put the out of date ones in inventory and sold the bunch of them. 

 

Some of the builds I found seemed more for level 50 than for leveling. Wait until 47 to take Resist Physical Damage? That's +10% at least in S/L resistance. I fit my defensive powers in early, figure I have four more free respecs. 

 

It seems what with DFB, Posi 1 and 2, the game is set up more to get you to 20 pretty quickly. Then you enter the terrible 20s, when leveling slows down. Or should I not be working through missions in First Ward, and just do Synapse, Yin, and Moonfire TFs?  I did find out Synapse TF is pretty long and its best done at +0. Get it done and get the badge and merits. If your team is lucky, Babbage will be right there as you exit a mission and you can kill him. 

 

Again, thanks for all the help. 

 

 

[ZemX]

11 hours ago, OxfordCalc said:

I noticed an IO enhancement was going for 88k, and it was only about 50k total to make it at the crafting table.

 

Are you including the cost of the recipe?  Even if you are, it's difficult to know the real going rate of an item by looking at the most recent trades.  Especially something that low priced, the difference between 50k and 88k is essentially nothing to many people who have billions salted away on multiple characters and are just in "buy it now" mode while kitting out a new toon.

 

11 hours ago, OxfordCalc said:

Looking over a bunch of builds, it seems folks drop Heavy Blow instead of Sweeping Cross. I made up a new build and respecced, dropping Heavy blow and taking Combat Readiness. The plan was to only use sweeping cross on low level stuff, but if Spinning Strike is off cool down, Sweeping Cross gets the nod. The animation for Spinning Strike is pretty cool. 

 

You're comparing apples and oranges there a bit.  Sweeping Cross is a small cone attack.  It can hit a few enemies in front of you in a fairly narrow arc (75 degrees on a Tanker).  Spinning Strike is a bit odd in that you target someone in front of you and then it also hits everybody around that target in a short range (6ft).  It's usually going to hit more enemies than Sweeping Cross does but it's also (a) slower to animate, and (b) does less damage per enemy hit.    Another wrinkle is the special set mechanic of Street Justice.   It is a combo-builder / combo-finisher set.  Some attacks build combo "level" and others spend that built-up level to improve their effects.  Sweeping Cross is one of these "finisher" attacks.  You can build up combo level and then spend it on Sweeping Cross, which then deals additional damage.  

 

Generally if you want to compare two attacks against each other, the most relevant stats to look at are damage and animation time.  This is something even the original devs of the game didn't understand.  Animation times were just randomly set to whatever time it took to play the animation the artists came up with for that attack.  What they didn't understand is that when you chain together five attacks one after the other, what determines how much damage you do per second is actually the DPA (sometimes written DPAS) or "Damage per Animation Second".   

 

I haven't really played Street Justice myself, but I'm surprised to hear people drop Heavy Blow.  It's common to drop one of the two Tier 1 attacks in a respec once you have enough global recharge that it becomes redundant to have two fast, light attacks.  You only need one usually.  But Heavy Blow has even slightly better DPA than Initial Strike AND it does knockdown.  Knockdown is nice because it means you can slot the Force Feedback: +recharge proc, which further boosts overall recharge.  Maybe there's a reason I'm not seeing.  Like I said, haven't played it or really researched it either.  Someone more expert on it can chime in here.

 

11 hours ago, OxfordCalc said:

Respeccing did show how many DOs and SOs I had and that most were out of date. I put the out of date ones in inventory and sold the bunch of them. 

 

When you have the money, it's best to stick to SOs and to use the "Upgrade" button when you're out in the field and your enhancements go red.  In fact, just before they go red.  SOs are available even five levels and you want to keep up with them usually.  So hit the upgrade button three levels before every five (e.g. at level 7, 12, 17, 22, 27, 32, 37, 42, and finally at 47... if you even still have any SOs at that point).  That's if you're playing at your level and not being farmed or carried by higher levels teams.  Some people will tell you it doesn't make a big difference, but mathematically +33.3% is +33.3% no matter what level you are.  It is particularly noticeable in Defense Armor toggles because it's far easier to reach the magical 45% defense than the 90% resistance cap, especially on a Tanker.   I go to three slots on armor toggles somewhere in the teens usually and have three def or res, whatever the toggle takes, and I keep those up to date.  On a team, any buffs you get stack on top of these and become all the more effective.

 

11 hours ago, OxfordCalc said:

Some of the builds I found seemed more for level 50 than for leveling. Wait until 47 to take Resist Physical Damage? That's +10% at least in S/L resistance. I fit my defensive powers in early, figure I have four more free respecs. 

 

Yes, someone leveling up isn't going to put it off that long so it's most likely an after-respec-at-50 choice you're looking at.  And maybe someone who intends only to play at 50+.  It's good to know the intent of the build you're looking at because people do both.  Some people hit 50 and never play below that level ever again.  I'm the opposite.  I build for exemplaring at least down to 30 comfortably.  So all the essentials are crammed in at 35 or lower.  Sometimes means I don't have a travel power in lower levels because I'd rather be slow getting to a mission door than examining the floor tiles once I'm inside.  But some people can't stand not having one.  

 

11 hours ago, OxfordCalc said:

I did find out Synapse TF is pretty long and its best done at +0. Get it done and get the badge and merits. If your team is lucky, Babbage will be right there as you exit a mission and you can kill him. 

 

If it wasn't for the Task Force Commander accolade (and/or the weekly strike target 2x merits bonus when that comes around), it would probably never be run. It seriously feels like someone phoned that one in when designing it because the same kill-all mission gets repeated like four or five times in there. Really most of the blueside TFs from the original game are pretty dull which is why Posi got redone and Penelope Yin replaced Sister Psyche.  But Synapse is still there.  Citadel isn't much better but because it's mostly Council enemies and at a higher level than Synapse, it gets done faster and more easily.  But it's almost as repetitious and dull.  Manticore is a bit more interesting.  Numina is not too bad, but has the horrendous multi-zone enemy group hunts in the middle of it.

 

Shame the redside SFs don't get run more often.  They are newer and better written, as is most of the content over there.

 

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

When you have the money, it's best to stick to SOs and to use the "Upgrade" button when you're out in the field and your enhancements go red. 

If you have the money, you will never slot anything TO, DO, SO or ever again. Common IOs can be crafted/had for cheap. I can slot out a build of level 25 IOs at around 2-3 mill. If you feel the need to slot out level 30-35s, I don't think it is going to be that much more. You can be level 50 with those common IOs and be fine for general content. That's what I did until I finally broke down and learned how to do builds on Homecoming. In all of my time on Live despite having billions of influ I rocked out level 25 common IOs. SOs are a god awful terrible money sink of yesteryear. I literally don't understand the slotting of one. 

 

If you are new and thus poor, don't forget you can grab uncommon IOs versus the in demand ones. I have grabbed uncommons for 100k where the more popular ones sell in the millions. A number of the crappy IO sets have all of 3-4 IOs. Early on a number of powers will have all of 3-4 slots put into them until later. The devs understood this. Frankenslot if need be. An Acc/End from one set and a Acc/End from another is better than a common Acc and End. You get a free respec every ten levels. Use them.

 

In terms of currency, I make a new character. Solo Matthew Habashy's arc. Do a DFB. Complete the first two contacts of Hollows with grabbing a team for Frostfire because that's an easy fill. You should have enough Merits to convert those over to 84 Enhancement Converts. While there are far better uses for those than selling them on the Market, selling all of them at 70k generates 5.88 million - fees. So yes, you can instantly afford a level 50 build of level 25 common IOs while being all of level 13, or so. I recently did that on a controller. Generate enough seed money so you use the converters for actual converting and that near six mill can be done in a few clicks. Getting seed money is more annoying than hard and you only really need less than 2 mill. Do the above and get your initial currency, and then do Posi 1 & 2, to get more Merits. You are off and running. Said controller is 16, has yet to do either Posi, and is sitting at roughly 40 mill.

 

I've become hellbent on doing Posi 1 at level 17. That's where the good stuff starts with End Mod. You also get a chance to slot up a level 16 power which odds are is important. If you have the influ for PVP and ATOs, then great. It's perfectly fine to slot in some level 15 commons or attuned uncommons. The cheap stuff is great to have on hand until you can hit level 27 and hopefully start to respec into some of the better sets. Strip out the lesser stuff, and store it in your base for the next characters. Since you are using IOs, you won't care about the new character's origin.

 

Synapse and Citadel are slogs and most in need to being redone. New TFs are nice, but those do need to be revisited.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Without_Pause

[ZemX]

3 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

In all of my time on Live despite having billions of influ I rocked out level 25 common IOs. SOs are a god awful terrible money sink of yesteryear. I literally don't understand the slotting of one. 

 

You couldn't slot them at level 2 on Live.  Now you can.   And you can't really beat them for enhancement value per slot until the late teens or early 20s.   It's level 22 for common IOs.  Maybe 17 for frankenslotting.

 

Personally, I slot them from 2 on up to 30 where I start slotting attuned sets for the bonuses.   I could put some common 30s in at that point if I bother to, but it's just as easy to punch the Upgrade button and notice it's no longer the kind of money I even worry about.

[Without_Pause]

12 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

You couldn't slot them at level 2 on Live.  Now you can.   And you can't really beat them for enhancement value per slot until the late teens or early 20s.   It's level 22 for common IOs.  Maybe 17 for frankenslotting.

 

Personally, I slot them from 2 on up to 30 where I start slotting attuned sets for the bonuses.   I could put some common 30s in at that point if I bother to, but it's just as easy to punch the Upgrade button and notice it's no longer the kind of money I even worry about.

On Live I simply didn't slot until 12 and grabbed level 15 IOs. Towards the end it was getting to 22 and then slotting. Hitting 12 in this game even without 2x XP boosters is still so easy. Give me a decent session, and I can hit that 13 as listed above. Sure, SOs at that level are better, but IOs are far more versatile and attuned ones grow with you so there is no need to click on Upgrade.

[Sanguinesun]

8 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

When you have the money, it's best to stick to SOs and to use the "Upgrade" button when you're out in the field and your enhancements go red.   

 

 

 

"When you have the money"....Its a waste of money for multiple reasons. Slotting level 30 standard IO's from level 27 on is more economical.  Also one can use tickets from running AE missions to redeem for Enhancements before that(though this too is really a waste for 2 reasons when there are better uses of tickets for profit.).

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:

"When you have the money"....Its a waste of money for multiple reasons. Slotting level 30 standard IO's from level 27 on is more economical. 

 

I have clarified this in the responses since then.  I was not suggesting SOs from 2 to 50.  I myself switch to set IOs and commons around 30.  But prior to 22 or 27, SOs make perfect sense.  I realize that wasn't clear in the first reply but though I listed upgrade points all the way to 50, you'll notice I added "if you even still have any SOs at that point".  Mainly, I was just intending to point out that DOs don't make sense to use anymore "if you have the money" as money is the only reason you'd have them instead of SOs, which offer better enhancement value at levels prior to 22.

[OxfordCalc]

I'm at 50 and decided to continue the thread. 

 

I came up with this target build. Melee defense at 45% was the goal, and with invincibility, I should be there.  

Infnitium's Brikhouse build gave me a starting point. I tried to get to 45% Melee without the Superiors. 

 

Is there a way to make it cheaper? I think it should have more LoftG Recharges, but wasn't sure of the recharge. More Recovery too. 

 

It seems to have more S/L resist than it needs, but Mids wouldn't let me swap the slots from Resist Physical Damage into Resist Energies. 

 

Not sure about Multi-strike (Sweeping Cross) or Annoyance (in Taunt), but I'm hoping they are cheap. 

 

 

 

Respec after 50 - Tanker (Invulnerability - Street Justice).mbd

[Zect]

2 hours ago, OxfordCalc said:

I came up with this target build. Melee defense at 45% was the goal, and with invincibility, I should be there.  

Infnitium's Brikhouse build gave me a starting point. I tried to get to 45% Melee without the Superiors.

 

You shouldn't build for melee defense unless you are making some kind of exotic build. Invuln is a typed defense set, so you should prioritize typed defense (smashing, lethal, energy etc.) unless you really know what you are doing. Invuln with 1 target in melee, weave, and either CJ or hover is already at 33% def to all. It's not too hard to softcap from there.

 

Even non-superior blistering colds are over 20 million apiece. If you want to take them at all, catalyze them and make them superior (catalysts are <1M each). Otherwise, don't take them in the first place and slot kinetic combats instead.

 

I don't have time to do a comprehensive build teardown at present, and I don't know how much of this build is your work. However, in the past whenever I have seen builds labelled infinitum, they are generally terrible so I would suggest seeking out a more reputable source (the best builds are often not passed around on the forums and generally only distributed privately in discords).

 

What will help people help you is to give a comprehensive account of your build goals. For example, what is your incarnate strategy (some people don't want their defense to come from the alpha slot for example), are you open to changing pools/epic powers, what content you want to do with this, etc. Even something like "I haven't decided what incarnates I want to use and would like to keep my options as open as possible" is helpful to a knowledgable builder.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Zect

[Thraxen]

I like a good cheap build challenge. I’ll have to check tomorrow when not on my phone. I used to do cheap builds as the norm cause I made too many alts and don’t like farming or marketing for hours. Now I just use merits from playing to sell snow sets. Pretty low maintenance. And I like Apex/Tin and kill stuff ITFs so that helps. When you start to get more alts, start storing stuff in your base you strip off toons you delete. Reusing them is free just have to have a base to store them. 

[Without_Pause]

Multi-Strike and Annoyance are going to be cheap due to being uncommons. You can't move slots around due to when they were placed in the build. If you slot something at 29, you can't magically reslot it at 34. You need to start from the beginning and go from there. Of minor note, I have no idea why the slot for the +KB protection is there. More when I see two major issues with the build.

 

1. The current Recovery - End Drain is .7%. That's outright awful, and more so for a build which doesn't have a click power to refill its end bar. Likewise, regen is 216%. On a tanker. WTF? I have a EA Brute which will sit at over 500%. I feel like I'm missing something, but that feels incredibly low for a Tanker.

 

2. One of the best ATO procs to the point of being broken is the proc for Might of the Tanker. It isn't in the build. Fine, you want to skip the rest of the set, but how negligent do you need to be to forget that?

Edited September 7, 2023 by Without_Pause

[Thrax]

6 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Multi-Strike and Annoyance are going to be cheap due to being uncommons. You can't move slots around due to when they were placed in the build. If you slot something at 29, you can't magically reslot it at 34. You need to start from the beginning and go from there. Of minor note, I have no idea why the slot for the +KB protection is there. More when I see two major issues with the build.

 

1. The current Recovery - End Drain is .7%. That's outright awful, and more so for a build which doesn't have a click power to refill its end bar. Likewise, regen is 216%. On a tanker. WTF? I have a EA Brute which will sit at over 500%. I feel like I'm missing something, but that feels incredibly low for a Tanker.

 

2. One of the best ATO procs to the point of being broken is the proc for Might of the Tanker. It isn't in the build. Fine, you want to skip the rest of the set, but how negligent do you need to be to forget that?

 

Turn flight and tough off and the end isn't that bad.  It's still a lil end heavy.  Accolades are off.  I'll turn them on in my build as they are free, money wise.  

[Thrax]

Well,  here is what I'd do on the cheap.  Has the two tank sets but no snow sets or purples.  Accolades and alpha are enabled.  Those are free aside from time playing.

 

Forum Cheap - Tanker (Invulnerability - Street Justice).mbd

[Without_Pause]

37 minutes ago, Thrax said:

 

Turn flight and tough off and the end isn't that bad.  It's still a lil end heavy.  Accolades are off.  I'll turn them on in my build as they are free, money wise.  

I didn't even think about a travel power being on. And yes, You can take Tough as a mule, but you are still at the cap for S/L without it so you don't really need to run it. You still want the proc in there as that will make sure your other resist are more on the tolerable side of things. 

[Zect]

Before I explain the build I want to reiterate the importance of recognizing whether you should slot typed or positional defense. Typed defense is typically a lot more slot-efficient. For example, 3x eradications offers 3.13% typed EN def. Usually, 3.13 to 3.75% positional def is a 5-6 piece bonus (see for example 6x numina's or 6x performance shifter).

 

The downside of typed is that typed defense less often comes bundled with rech. But you (OP) do not seem to be pursuing a high rech build, so that's alright.

 

There are some cases where specific sets may serve for both typed and positional defense. For example, if you have 3x unbreakable guard for the EN res, an additional 1 slot for ~1.5% ish SL def is still a pretty good deal. That's still more Defense Per Added Slot (DPAS) than kincombat. However, in general avoid things such as mako and tod on a typed defense armor unless you really know what you are doing.

 

Next, you mention the excess amount of SL res, and it's good that you have noticed this and are trying to react to it. Endgame invulns typically slot resist physical and do not toggle on tough, using it only as a gladiator's armor mule because they still cap SL res without it. This effectively allows them to use their high SL res to run 1 less armor toggle than other tankers, a gain of ~0.2% EPS. Which is almost 12% recovery, which is almost the amount that phys perfection gives you (12.5%). This concept of under-investing in a stat you have excess of (SL res) in order to effect a gain (recovery) elsewhere is known as trading-out.

 

* * *

 

Next, we need to talk build goals.

 

Since I do not know your incarnate strategy, playstyle nor target content, that makes it impossible to make effective recommendations. Instead, what I will present is a basic platform that nevertheless offers robust survivability, which you can upgrade with your choice of power pools, epic pool, and incarnate powers. I will also discuss some ways in which my proposed build deviates from more optimal slotting techniques, so that you can upgrade later in your career when you can afford more stuff.

 

My proposed build goals are:

• 40% def to all but psitox with 1 enemy in range
• perma 70% res to all but psitox 1 with 1 stack of might of the tanker ATIO proc

 

"Why not 45% def?" you ask. "And where's the perma-dull pain?" These are not hard to achieve, but without knowing how (or even if) resources such as incarnates and power pools are to be spent we cannot state the best means of achieving them. 40% def still blocks 90% of incoming dps and will be softcapped at 4 enemies in melee, which will serve OP well until they can arrive at a decision.

 

 

The remaining power choices and slots are yours to spend.

 

This has no incarnates, no epic, and no IO's more expensive than 10 million apiece. The overwhelming majority are <5 M, notable exceptions being the shield walls (7-10 M), lotgs (6),  gladiator's armor +3 def (8-10), and tanker ATIO's - might of the tanker and gauntleted fist - depending on market conditions.

 

You will put in bids at 8.1 million for the tanker ATIOs. After you reach level 50, enhancement catalysts will start to drop as loot for you, up to 1 per toon per day. These let you turn the ATIOs into their superior versions. In the enhancement window in-game, click on the enhancement. The catalyst, if you have any, appears in the top left of the screen. Click on it and the ATIO is upgraded.

 

I want to draw your attention to several features and potential upgrades:

• This build uses cross punch. Even though it is not a combo builder, it allows us to fit eradications which is important because Stj's 2nd aoe attack, unusually, takes taoe instead of pbaoe sets. Because of the passive synergy bonus from boxing, it actually does good damage as a single target attack and is worth taking in its own right. My assessment is that a 3rd filler attack may serve you well because you are a low rech build and crushing uppercut has an unusually long rech. It can be dropped if you later find you do not use it (in that case my suggestion for making up the EN def is to mule some thunderstrikes in an epic blast).
• Crushing Uppercut, unusually for a strong melee attack, accepts hold sets. Therefore, it can potentially fit a 2nd absorb proc from superior entomb, the winter set. Absorb procs such as these are extremely powerful on a tanker that has both strong def and res but low sustain, such as invuln. If you are able to get more rech you may consider swapping the locations of might of the tanker and gauntleted fist, and putting an entomb proc in the 6th slot of crushing uppercut.
• Normally, high-end invuln builds split up their gauntleted fist set into two sets of 3x, getting the 6% EN res bonus twice. (The remaining slots are often filled with damage procs, or left empty if the attack does not need further enhancement.) In your case I have assembled it as a single set of 6x because without winter sets you have much less access to FC res and therefore benefit from the 6th piece bonus. Splitting it up again is an option if you want to upgrade resistances in future.
• This build is softcapped at 4 enemies in melee. The most immediate upgrade will be to be softcapped with just 1 in melee range, and to achieve perma-dull pain which requires +200% rech enhancement in dull pain. There are a few options to achieve this; for example, barrier core epiphany in the destiny slot is perma-5% def and res to all, and also lets your protect teammates. Agility core and a defense pool power (such as hover or maneuvers) will also achieve this. If you add ageless on top of that it will make dull pain almost permanent as long as you always remember to press them both together on a 2 minute cycle.

 

Note that I have not included haste above, though you may take it if you like. My assessment is that if you take haste it should be with a specific goal in mind - making a certain power permanent or enabling a specific attack chain. This  in turn usually requires that hasten itself be permanent, otherwise its downtime is longer than mids displays, and that downtime in turn lengthens the rech of the other power. As a low-rech build that is nowhere near permahasten, you will likely gain more slot-efficiency from taking +def powers instead. I encourage you to further explore the invention system yourself and and experiment with different incarnate powers and builds based on your play experience.

 

Tanker (Invulnerability - Street Justice).mbd

Edited September 8, 2023 by Zect

[OxfordCalc]

23 hours ago, Thrax said:

Well,  here is what I'd do on the cheap.  Has the two tank sets but no snow sets or purples.  Accolades and alpha are enabled.  Those are free aside from time playing.

 

Forum Cheap - Tanker (Invulnerability - Street Justice).mbd 43.64 kB · 3 downloads

Thanks. Yes I forgot about the accolades. I have TF Commander and Atlas Medallion. I still need to research the alpha slot, but something to help with the end recovery is good. 

[OxfordCalc]

11 hours ago, Zect said:

Before I explain the build I want to reiterate the importance of recognizing whether you should slot typed or positional defense. Typed defense is typically a lot more slot-efficient. For example, 3x eradications offers 3.13% typed EN def. Usually, 3.13 to 3.75% positional def is a 5-6 piece bonus (see for example 6x numina's or 6x performance shifter).

 

The downside of typed is that typed defense less often comes bundled with rech. But you (OP) do not seem to be pursuing a high rech build, so that's alright.

 

There are some cases where specific sets may serve for both typed and positional defense. For example, if you have 3x unbreakable guard for the EN res, an additional 1 slot for ~1.5% ish SL def is still a pretty good deal. That's still more Defense Per Added Slot (DPAS) than kincombat. However, in general avoid things such as mako and tod on a typed defense armor unless you really know what you are doing.

 

Next, you mention the excess amount of SL res, and it's good that you have noticed this and are trying to react to it. Endgame invulns typically slot resist physical and do not toggle on tough, using it only as a gladiator's armor mule because they still cap SL res without it. This effectively allows them to use their high SL res to run 1 less armor toggle than other tankers, a gain of ~0.2% EPS. Which is almost 12% recovery, which is almost the amount that phys perfection gives you (12.5%). This concept of under-investing in a stat you have excess of (SL res) in order to effect a gain (recovery) elsewhere is known as trading-out.

 

* * *

 

Next, we need to talk build goals.

 

Since I do not know your incarnate strategy, playstyle nor target content, that makes it impossible to make effective recommendations. Instead, what I will present is a basic platform that nevertheless offers robust survivability, which you can upgrade with your choice of power pools, epic pool, and incarnate powers. I will also discuss some ways in which my proposed build deviates from more optimal slotting techniques, so that you can upgrade later in your career when you can afford more stuff.

 

My proposed build goals are:

• 40% def to all but psitox with 1 enemy in range
• perma 70% res to all but psitox 1 with 1 stack of might of the tanker ATIO proc

 

"Why not 45% def?" you ask. "And where's the perma-dull pain?" These are not hard to achieve, but without knowing how (or even if) resources such as incarnates and power pools are to be spent we cannot state the best means of achieving them. 40% def still blocks 90% of incoming dps and will be softcapped at 4 enemies in melee, which will serve OP well until they can arrive at a decision.

 

 

 

The remaining power choices and slots are yours to spend.

 

This has no incarnates, no epic, and no IO's more expensive than 10 million apiece. The overwhelming majority are <5 M, notable exceptions being the shield walls (7-10 M), lotgs (6),  gladiator's armor +3 def (8-10), and tanker ATIO's - might of the tanker and gauntleted fist - depending on market conditions.

 

You will put in bids at 8.1 million for the tanker ATIOs. After you reach level 50, enhancement catalysts will start to drop as loot for you, up to 1 per toon per day. These let you turn the ATIOs into their superior versions. In the enhancement window in-game, click on the enhancement. The catalyst, if you have any, appears in the top left of the screen. Click on it and the ATIO is upgraded.

 

I want to draw your attention to several features and potential upgrades:

• This build uses cross punch. Even though it is not a combo builder, it allows us to fit eradications which is important because Stj's 2nd aoe attack, unusually, takes taoe instead of pbaoe sets. Because of the passive synergy bonus from boxing, it actually does good damage as a single target attack and is worth taking in its own right. My assessment is that a 3rd filler attack may serve you well because you are a low rech build and crushing uppercut has an unusually long rech. It can be dropped if you later find you do not use it (in that case my suggestion for making up the EN def is to mule some thunderstrikes in an epic blast).
• Crushing Uppercut, unusually for a strong melee attack, accepts hold sets. Therefore, it can potentially fit a 2nd absorb proc from superior entomb, the winter set. Absorb procs such as these are extremely powerful on a tanker that has both strong def and res but low sustain, such as invuln. If you are able to get more rech you may consider swapping the locations of might of the tanker and gauntleted fist, and putting an entomb proc in the 6th slot of crushing uppercut.
• Normally, high-end invuln builds split up their gauntleted fist set into two sets of 3x, getting the 6% EN res bonus twice. (The remaining slots are often filled with damage procs, or left empty if the attack does not need further enhancement.) In your case I have assembled it as a single set of 6x because without winter sets you have much less access to FC res and therefore benefit from the 6th piece bonus. Splitting it up again is an option if you want to upgrade resistances in future.
• This build is softcapped at 4 enemies in melee. The most immediate upgrade will be to be softcapped with just 1 in melee range, and to achieve perma-dull pain which requires +200% rech enhancement in dull pain. There are a few options to achieve this; for example, barrier core epiphany in the destiny slot is perma-5% def and res to all, and also lets your protect teammates. Agility core and a defense pool power (such as hover or maneuvers) will also achieve this. If you add ageless on top of that it will make dull pain almost permanent as long as you always remember to press them both together on a 2 minute cycle.

 

Note that I have not included haste above, though you may take it if you like. My assessment is that if you take haste it should be with a specific goal in mind - making a certain power permanent or enabling a specific attack chain. This  in turn usually requires that hasten itself be permanent, otherwise its downtime is longer than mids displays, and that downtime in turn lengthens the rech of the other power. As a low-rech build that is nowhere near permahasten, you will likely gain more slot-efficiency from taking +def powers instead. I encourage you to further explore the invention system yourself and and experiment with different incarnate powers and builds based on your play experience.

 

Tanker (Invulnerability - Street Justice).mbd 39.82 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks a lot. This is a lot of information. The idea of taking Toughness but not running it is pretty counter-intuitive, but I see the point. 

 

I'm not sure what the goal is. Run KM ITF and gather the mobs together for the dps and support to handle? Perma Dull Pain would certainly be useful. 

 

I'll take a look at it.