ISO - a Dominator Sommelier

[Bellicose]

I started a thread like this in the Controller forum and got some great advice; so, here goes one for the Dominator forum.

I am hoping some Dominator gurus might point me in the direction of a solid Dominator that I will enjoy. Wall of text incoming...

A few things to know in advance. I will PL myself up to a reasonable level (30s), so I will never have to suffer through the low level grind. Influence is not really a concern. I tend to do about 50/50 solo vs team play. When I do team, it is with PUGs. I frequently do Speedy TFs and I really enjoy that challenge.

I do have some goals.

I tend to go towards, at least, some Defense caps (S/L, or S/L/E or R). I know a lot of people say that 32.5% is enough with just one small purple, but my experience (or perhaps playstyle) just doesn't really support that notion.

I also always go for perma-Hasten.

Since I do a lot of Speed runs, I always like to have good Stealth on board. Often this is just SS + Celerity, but it doesn't have to be.

I would like to be able to take down a Pylon. I don't need to set a record here or anything. I think taking down a Pylon just represents being able to make a legitimate contribution to hard targets.

I would like to be able to run Trapdoor at +4/x8. Again, I don't need to set a record here. Just looking for sustainability and survivability. I think the Trap Door test is a good benchmark as it does a nice job of representing the dangers of a +4/x8 team; and, I'd like to make a contribution when I land on one of those teams.

Lastly, I'd like a Dominator that could contribute on a 4* Aeon or ITF. Those get called out frequently enough, and I've done a few; but, I'd like this toon to be a real contributor.

I realize these goals may not even be achievable. Especially based on this next bit.

I have taken every Dominator Primary and Secondary to 50 at this point. Some I loved, some I didn't. The ones I loved are much more in consideration than the ones I didn't. Although, I'd like to believe that I'm not so stubborn that my mind couldn't be changed.

Primaries -

Darkness Control: I've taken this to 50 four times now (/Cold, /Storm, /Earth Assault, and /Icy Assault). Love this set. Just don't know that it can do it all for me.

Earth Control: I've taken this to 50 four times now (/Icy Assault, /Radioactive Assault, /Sonic Assault and /Thorny Assault). Love the animations, terrific pet, love this set. For a Controller, I would be concerned about damage output, not so much with a Dominator.

Electric Control: I've taken this to 50 once (Electric Assault). Really did nothing for me. Don't like Sleeps or "chain" powers all that much. Maybe it's awesome and I just don't see it.

Fire Control: I've taken this to 50 three times (/Kinetics, /Energy Assault, and /Savage Assault). Hate the Imps, love everything else. Seems like it should be able to meet the Goals.

Gravity Control: I've taken this to 50 once (/Martial Assault). Eh. I'm not a fan of Knockback, and I consider having to put in a SA: Kb -> Kd Proc a tax. For the right power? Sure. Just didn't find the powers in Gravity worth it.

Ice Control: I've taken this to 50 twice (/Darkness Affinity, and /Dark Assault). For a Controller, I would be concerned about damage output, not so much with a Dominator. And, Arctic Air with Domination is very strong.

Illusion Control: I've taken this to 50 once (/Radiation Emission). I wish I liked this set more. It seems do the things I'd want it to do; and, yet, I find it chaotic (which I don't enjoy). I tested this one pretty heavily when I was building a new controller last August. I'd be willing to try again, but it didn't win out.

Mind Control: I've taken this to 50 once (/Psi Assault). Blech.

Plant Control: I've taken this to 50 three times (/Dark Miasma, /Fiery Assault, and /Trick Arrow). Absolutely terrific set.

Symphony Control: I've taken this to 50 once (/Trick Arrow). This set just didn't do it for me. I could be convinced this is 'the one', but I'd have to see some real proof. I tested this one pretty heavily when I was building a new controller last August. and it was much better than my original estimation; but, I still have doubts for a Dominator. 

Secondaries -

Dark Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Ice Control/). I enjoyed it well enough, it puts out sufficient damage; but, it didn’t “wow” me.

Earth Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Darkness Control/). This one felt very solid. It hit very hard.

Electricity Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Electric Control/). I found this one cumbersome. The –End was negligible, some of the animations were slow. I don’t care for knockback.

Energy Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Fire Control/). Did not like. Taxed for Kb -> Kd. Didn’t find the damage worth it.

Fiery Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Plant Control/). This one felt very strong; and, I loved the extra sustainability from Consume.

Icy Assault: I've taken this to 50 twice (Darkness Control/, and Earth Control/). I have an inexplicable love for all of the Ice sets; but, I’m not sure I would want it for a more “powerful” character.

Martial Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Gravity Control/). I wasn’t ever able to find much power in this set. Loved the style, but disliked the results.

Psionic Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Mind Control/). I didn’t like the character I had this on before; but, I blame that on Mind Control. I think this one could be a real contender.

Radioactive Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Earth Control/). This one was a real mixed bag. I ended up just focusing on the ranged attacks. I like the idea of Radiation Melee, but the animations are just pretty slow.

Savage Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Fire Control/). I paired this one with Fire and I liked how it looked on paper; in practice though, I felt the damage was a little anemic.

Sonic Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Earth Control/). I paired this one with Earth, probably should have gone fire. It has potential, I think I just made bad decisions with it.

Thorny Assault: I've taken this to 50 once (Earth Control/). I really liked the idea of this one, but (again) some of the animation times left me wanting.

I clearly have some leanings, but I'd appreciate a numbers or data driven perspective. Also, I fully acknowledge that my power selections, slotting or playstyle could have impacted the success or failure of any of my previous Dominators

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Here's a thread that has a great deal of reading, but also quite a bit of helpful information about the kinds of performance benchmarks you've been thinking about. 

 

 

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Following up, you could put together any primary you like with any secondary you like and come up with an effective build. Not totally sure what would "tip the scales" toward one build or another for you. So, I'll add in a handful of Mids files, give some brief commentary on each build, and perhaps something will catch your attention. Or not, all good either way and good luck to you however you decide to move forward. 

On a related note, Frosticus has some interesting builds for earth / psi doms. Voltak has some interesting builds for dark / dark. Mezmera has some interesting builds for energy assault, with different primaries. All of these builds are thoughtfully put together and mechanically very effective. Also, perma hasten doesn't seem to help doms as much as it does for at least some controller builds. Perhaps I'm wrong, though, and one or more others will post awesome perma-hasten dom builds. I'll be taking notes for my own doms if one or more of those appears. 

 

Earth / ice / fire dom ... My personal favorite these days. Defenses are higher end for a dom. Very strong for AOE controls and also bring solid debuffs to a team with substantial amounts of slow, -recharge, -defense, and -resistances, plus a bit of -damage in chilling embrace. Very good build for leading PUG teams in most content. But, not a great choice for soloing a broad spectrum of AVs, in case that's important.

Regarding numbers, does about 260 single target DPS in pylon testing and can safely clear a trapdoor run (not fast, but still quite safe). AOE damage is reasonable, with two "regular" AOEs and a damage aura also chipping in more AOE damage (about 12 DPS from the damage aura). Reasonable damage overall, even if not the most damaging dom build out there.

To check out the defense totals toggle on "power up" and "unleash potential" and consider that you'll want to cast "power up" before "unleash potential" when you can. With barrier running most of the time and melee core hybrid running quite a bit, this is a sturdy dom. Add in a few clicky accolades like "Geas of the Kind Ones", etc, and this build has high end "peak survivability" when needed. 

 

Edit: It may be worth mentioning that this build has done well in several 2* and 4* ITF runs. Despite spending the substantial majority of time fighting in melee, defeats have always been below average for the team as a whole and 2 defeats is the highest defeat total for any single * content run so far. Teammate quality is a VERY big part of why defeats have not been common and luck is also relevant. But, the build itself is partially responsible because high "peak survivability" options are so helpful in * content. Heat metal earns its keep on these kinds of runs by noticeably boosting team damage in hard fights, although controls and debuffs other than those provided in heat metal are also impactful. 

 

Ice / psi / psi dom ... This is a bit of an unusual build. It really messes with mob AI because of three different confusion sources (2 auras and a proc). So, it's hard to assess how well the build survives just by looking at it "on paper." Having tried this kind of build my sense is that it is highly survivable in the clear majority of content. Through the use of procs single target damage is in a good place. To get good AOE out of this kind of build enflame will need to be placed well. But, you may already be very familiar with how to get the most out of enflame and even if you're not then it's a skill that can be acquired through experience, if you like the build. 

 

Gravity / radioactive / psi dom ... This build has much better damage and has noticeably quicker animations than many may initially expect. It can clear 300 DPS against pylons without breaking a sweat. The heal in rad assault is still useful even without devastating blow. World of confusion helps when using wormhole because you can drop mobs on your dom and then confuse them, with contagious confusion procs helping this out quite a bit. The  -defense in rad assault helps to make world of confusion more impactful. Also, world of confusion complements the two direct damage AOEs in the build (enflame and atom smasher) and brings AOE for the build to a good place.

Celtic Sorceress, Danu O'Donnell - Dominator (Earth Control - Icy Assault- Fire Mastery),v2.mbd Dominator (Gravity Control - Radioactive Assault - Psi Mastery),Vigor alpha.mbd

Dominator (Ice Control - Psi Assault - Psi Mastery).mbd

Edited December 2, 2023 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Bellicose]

Wow. Read that thread, then all the threads that were linked in that thread. There is a lot of information there. So, I just dug and started looking at numbers. I'm starting with the Assault side of things. I figured these sets are unique to Dominator's; and, frankly, a lot of the data provided relies principally on them. 

 

Just based purely on DPS, it does seem that Dark, Fiery, Psionic, Radioactive, Savage and Thorny are the top contenders. 

Looking at my goals (i.e. Defense caps, Perma-Hasten, and Stealth) little is offered by the Secondary. Although, I do note that Dark's -ToHit, and Savage's use of Blood Frenzy (+Rech of 20% with five stacks) are definitely points in their favor. 

I also noted that being able to insert the Ascendency of the Dominator proc was highly regarded. Which fits into Midnight Grasp (Dark), Subdue or Psychic Shockwave (Psionic), Atom Smasher or Devastating Blow (Radioactive), Vicious Slash or Feral Charge (Savage), and Impale (Thorny).  That being said, I'm not really sure which, if any, of those powers would fit into a good build's attack chain. Fiery Assaults lack of "proc'ability" is also noted. 

Thinking in terms of offence, I'm seeing that Radioactive, Savage and Thorny all offer places to slot an Achille's -Res.  Nightfall, Fire Breath, Psychic Scream, Electron Haze, Unkindness, Fling Thorns and Thorntrops all provide places for Annihilation's -Res. And, Engulfing Darkness, Combustion, Consume, Psychic Shockwave, Atom Smasher, Rending Fury, Thornburst and Ripper all allow for Fury of the Gladiator's -Res. Although, with the exception of Fling Thorns and Ripper, those cones are pretty meager with 20 to 30 degree arcs. Lastly, I thought about the Gaussian's proc, which is only available to Radioactive, Savage and Thorny. Again, I'm not really sure which, if any, of those powers would fit into a good build's attack chain.

The last thing on my mind, as I did all this napkin math, was just a general concern about Savage and Thorny doing principally Lethal damage; and, how much that would effect performance. 

 

@EnjoyTheJourney, or anyone else reading, any thoughts on this analysis?

 

Edit: I decided to explore the Secondaries just a little bit more with an eye towards sustainability (Heals and End). Dark's Life Drain, , Psionic's Drain Psyche, Radioactive's Radiation Siphon, , and Savage's Blood Craze all Heal.  Fiery's Consume and Psionic's Drain Psyche help with End.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Bellicose

[Snokle]

*Edit note*

For the DPS check, Psi, Dark, Fire, Savage were all Secondaries noted by other people who did solo +4 TF challenges and other pylons. I think energy was up there too. I know technically Psi is lower on raw DPS, but I think with amount that have resistance to it, and other details (mainly -rech, slow) it can help turn the tide of combat.

 

For the cap defense, I think the APPs for Dom are better with Res bonuses than Def, as I think chasing Def through set bonuses really hurt the builds for dom more than all else. Using Barrier, Melee, and another effect, like RoP, or unleash potential to get over soft-cap is better in the long run then trying to get to 45% by bonuses.

 

Please note this is not really refined. This is more of an experimental build after the original comment I saw about Vigor. There is some stuff taken from EnjoyTheJourney, but took some of my trials using Ice/Psi/Psi to it.  I cannot say my build matches what I have built here, but with AA getting -stealth, and it was something you noted you are interested in I tossed in the stealth pool to run it like so.

 

It plans to cycle Barrier - Unleashed Potential - Melee Hybrid to keep Def high and solid S/L resist with other effects. It is not perma-hasten, but I agree with above that pema-haste is not really needed, only perma-dom is crucial. I use frostbite as a fill in for attack chains, and a bit more AoE. Jack is added as well for some extra damage and omph when he is up and running.

 

For Savage, there was a guy who made a great Ice/Savage build a year or so ago. I feel it was a fantastic build with showed some depth into Savage.

 

Dakir Savage:

Scrappy Savage Dom

 

Here is the build below:

 

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

Edited December 2, 2023 by Dr_Snokle

[EnjoyTheJourney]

The OP's summary of things learned seems accurate overall. A few thoughts to consider ...

Energy assault doesn't have particularly good AOE damage. But, just like for multiple other ATs it offers very strong single target damage. Also, fiery assault doesn't need a lot of procs to produce top tier single target damage, which allows for slotting to focus more on set bonuses. That can be a good thing. 

The +damage unique IO has the potential to boost damage, especially when put into a power that recharges often enough to have 2-3 stacks most of the time. But, sometimes it's not the best choice. Set combinations that don't incorporate the +damage unique IO can usually still do very good damage, especially when procc'd out. And, the +recharge attached to the +damage IO can mess with proc rates for the power in which is slotted. So, if trying to min-max then it can be useful to compare "with the +damage proc" and "without the +damage proc" slotting in the single target damage chain to see which works better. 

Also, regarding mechanics, the percentage chance of a control being enacted by a power seems to be important when choosing in which power to put the unique +damage IO from the ascendancy of the dominator set. So, for example, IIRC the AOEs atom smasher and psy shockwave have a 20% chance of stunning when cast. Also, IIRC when the unique +damage ascendancy IO is put into those powers the game engine will only check to see whether or not to trigger the +damage IO when the stun activates. If that's true then procs won't be a frequent occurrence in powers that have a smaller chance of activating a control when they're used. 

 

One set of combinations I've never really explored, but that has good potential for teaming, would be to pair sonic assault with primaries and perhaps masteries that offer AOE confusion powers and perhaps defense debuffs. The -15% mob resistance aura for sonic assault has a 15 foot radius and is a noticeable boon for teams when a sonic dom is fighting in melee range. The -resist aura in sonic assault will be even stronger when that dom is confusing enemies, and even stronger still when confused enemies also have their defenses debuffed. Since sonic assault has a "power up" style power that boosts defenses and other things, as well as damage, which means it can support very high defenses the same way as dark assault, energy assault, ice assault, and earth assault. 

A few example powerset combinations could be ...

earth control (debuffs defense) / sonic assault (debuffs resistances) / psi mastery (confuses mobs in melee range)

plant control (confuses) / sonic assault / fire mastery (heat metal for tough fights, plus up to 2 good AOEs)

gravity control (wormhole mobs into range of the -resistance debuff) / sonic assault / psi mastery (confuses mobs in melee range)

 

There seems to be at least some overlap between the OP's most liked sets and the combinations here. These could be worth exploring because they might meet a lot of the benchmarks outlined earlier and they'd be great on teams. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Bellicose]

So, having looked at the builds you've provided, as well as the links, I decided to try something along the lines Darkir's Scrappy Dominator (Ice/Savage/Ice) - with a few modifications.

I decided, since I was running with Jack Frost, that to help keep him upright, I would swap in Sorcery for Spirit Ward. What I found was that running the Leadership Toggles, the Fighting Toggles, the Sorcery Toggles and Arctic Air, I was a little End starved.  So, I switched from Savage to Psionic for Drain Psyche. That made all the difference.

My SOP for Trapdoor was to target someone in the middle and drop Ice Slick, port to them (Translocation) then cycle on Sleet, Drain Psyche, Frostbite and Psychic Shockwave. Then find a hard target and focus on them.

Trapdoor time was just over 8 min and Pylon a little over 2.  I was a little surprised by the low Pylon time as I assumed Psionic might be pretty well resisted; but, I'm guessing that Ice Slick and Sleet (both slotted with Annihilation -Res) probably contributed.

There were a few hairy moments where, RNGs being RNGs, some lucky shot rang in and my health dropped precipitously. RoP for a little spike of protection and would muddle through.

All told, I did like the characters capacity.  Historically, I've used Ageless Core; but, I'm trying to lean more towards Barrier Core. However, as I've been transitioning characters that way, I've found that I often miss the End. All that is to say that I'm leaning to towards Psionic Assault very heavily as it does ameliorate that issue with Drain Psyche. Also because Psychic Shockwave is just great. I think I'm also leaning towards Ice Mastery for my APP. 

However, I'm not committed to Ice Control. I am curious if any of the other Primaries would work better than Ice. Dark, Earth, Fire and Plant are all still very much in contention.

Thoughts?

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Those are good benchmark totals, especially for your first attempt at putting together your dom. 

One factor that helps pylon times (and AV / GM fights) for psi assault characters is that the -regen for drain psyche is so high that it noticeably impacts regen for AVs and GMs even with AV resists and purple patch effects in play. 

With the assault set and mastery as chosen, any of the primaries you're considering can go well. 

The best choice probably has a lot to do with the kind of content you'd like to run. If you're joining PUGs and not trying to run extreme content then plant would provide the smoothest ride. You can solo most things quite well with plant as the primary and you'd speed up teams as well. You can exemp down very well with plant because seeds is available so early, as well. 

 

I ran a fire / psi / ice dom for quite a while and found it very capable. I leaned defensive with incarnates (barrier core T4, melee core hybrid, all the passive accolades and all the relevant clicky accolades) and found that dom could reliably facetank Rom and most other AVs in +4x8 runs. He did have difficulty in extreme runs when trying to facetank Rom (+4x8, extra damage for enemies, no inspirations, no temp powers, ...). But, that's not surprising. He was effective in shortman runs for ITFs (ie: 3-5 players) because he could tank EBs and the AVs well and damage was very good. A dom duo I tried for the Tin Mage TF didn't go as hoped because of the endless ambushes and Director 11's penchant for endless running. We ended up abandoning that run. So, the build does have its limitations. 

Edit: Perhaps it's good to mention that fire / psi / ice wouldn't be the best choice if soloing AVs was important to you. That dom could facetank AVs while on teams, given that other teammates would be helping out in various ways. 

Earth / psi / ice would also be very capable. Very strong on controls, of course, with earth as the primary. Also, if you take animated stone you can keep him alive easier than other pets because he is naturally tough, plus he has a taunt. If you'd like to more fully explore how Stony can be kept alive then posts by Frosticus are a good resource. 

Dark is a really good survival set and the confuse opens up new options for the kinds of content you can solo (see Voltak's post and videos for more about that, if you'd like). It couldn't be considered a bad choice. It's more a matter of if you like the feel of the set. I don't understand it very well and have always struggled to get it to perform near its ceiling. So, I'm not the best for providing advice about how to do that. 
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Bellicose]

So, I tried Dark/Psi/Ice today and was surprised by the results.  I thought for sure that the -ToHit component would make for 'safer' runs. Negligible effect. I also thought that Haunt would speed things up against 'hard targets'. Their effect was also negligible.  Overall, I was defeating mobs more slowly and taking more hits.

Because the AoE immobilize is a cone, I tried leading with it, then going into the mob and dropping Heart of Darkness, Sleet, Drain Psyche and Psychic Shockwave.  Never died, but lived on the edge every spawn. Both Haunt's Shades and Umbra Beast were far less resilient than Jack Frost.

Additionally, I think a couple of failures (i.e. where playstyle meets the sets capacities) were I used Living Shadows a lot less than Frostbite because it's a cone. I think the combined -Res from how I slotted Ice Slick and Sleet accounted for faster kill times, coupled with the inherent Slows reducing incoming attacks. Not to mention the Kd inherent in those powers.

VS the Pylon I couldn't really keep the Shades and Umbra Beast alive long enough for their damage to be significant.

Both Trapdoor and Pylon times were about a minute higher.

I don't think it's Dark. I'll try Earth, Fire or Plant next.

[Thraxen]

Only dom I’ve ever liked was ice/psi/psi melee confuse build. I’ve got my build somewhere. It’s kinda dumb how survivable it is. 

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Did you try fearsome stare as an opener? Slotted for -to hit it'll inflict about -17ish% to hit, which IIRC gets cut to close to 8% to hit against +3 mobs. Also, mobs will tend to stand still and shake until you attack them. It has a range of 70 feet, fires in a 45 degree angle, can affect up to 16 targets at once, despite being a cone. It's an effective opener even against large spawns that are fairly dispersed in where they're standing.

 

Also, shadow field inflicts -15% to hit and functions a lot like volcanic gasses. You can reasonably slot it for hold and/or for -to hit. It's good to drop that down a shaft that has a spawn at the bottom before heading down. 

Your experience with the pets was similar to mine. I couldn't keep them alive against pylons. 

FWIW it seems like you have ice control really well figured out for how to get it to perform near its ceiling for control capabilities. You may be in a similar place with me regarding dark, by which I mean you're still learning how to get it to perform near its ceiling. Creative use of the confuse power is probably part of getting there and that may be part of where I'm currently falling short in how I put dark control to use.

Edit: Forgot that the OP mentioned speed runs as being a particularly fun challenge. If speed running is highly desired then it might be hard to do better than plant / fiery / fire.

 

Most spawns--and even most AVs--get erased so fast in speed runs. Having seeds for those relatively few instances when near-instant spawn deletion can't happen would help and having creepers splitting aggro and multiplying the number of tentacles as enemies drop in droves near creepers would help the team. Single target damage for fiery assault is top tier among dom secondaries and it can all be delivered from the same place as seeds (ie: from range). Both fireball and rain of fire from flame mastery have 16 target caps for even more AOE destruction, for those occasions when that would help. Heat metal can further buff team damage when hard targets are on the screen. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Bellicose]

Well, I intended to try Earth next, but slotting it was proving a challenge, so I moved on to Fire Control. 

 

I liked how Ice/Psi/Ice worked, so I kept that framework. I know I don't care for the imps. They're chaotic and fragile, so that freed up a power. Without pets, I no longer needed Spirit Ward so, I swapped it out for Arcane Bolt. With Arcane Bolt, I felt I no longer needed Psionic Dart. Dart had been my filter, and once I was in I sorely missed it. Bolt is no substitute. I also picked up Ice Storm.

 

Overall, my time were similar to Ice and Dark; but, again I felt fragile. I actually had a couple of deaths. I think I underestimated just how much DPS the pets contribute. Also, how much heat they can draw away from me. 

 

I tried again this morning, this time with the Dart back in. Better, but not enough. 

 

I also revisited Dark with @EnjoyTheJourney suggestions. Just in Mids. Didn't like what I was seeing enough to rebuild.

 

Next up, Plant. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Bellicose

[Bellicose]

So, I had some insomnia last night; and I ended up testing both Plant and Earth.

Plant, as expected, performed very well. Target a Boss, SoC, Roots, Creepers, Sleet, dive in for Psychic Shockwave, then cycle singe target attacks (Mind Probe, Telekinetic Thrust, Psionic Lance with Psionic Dart or Psychic Shockwave used a filler during my second Cycle as needs dictate. Very simple and effective.

For Earth, I once again dropped Psionic Dart to justify adding in Volcanic Gasses; and, again, I missed the Dart. I will have to rerun that test with Dart back in and Gasses out. I had being leading with Gasses, but I think leading with Earthquake should be just as effective. Anyways lead with Gasses or Earthquake, then Cages, Sleet, jump in for Shockwave, then cycle single target using Fossilize in place of Dart and intermittent Stalagmites and Psychic Shockwave. I had high hopes for how this one would play, as I have always liked Earth Control, but I found this test to run a little bit slower. Also, in the last few months I have found that I really enjoy the Sorcery pool. Particularly for RoP, but I have found that Spirit Ward and Mystic Flight (w/Translocation) to be have great functionality (and even Arcane Bolt from time to time). All that is to say, that toggling off Flight to activate Stalagmites was a bit of a drag.

I do plan on rerunning all of these test runs with Fiery Assault although I suspect that Consume will be a poor substitute for Drain Psyche.

 

Right now, I am considering Ice and Plant as my top two contenders with Fire, then Earth and, finally, Dark behind.

As a run a second test with fire and then a third round with either Fire or Psionic as preferred, I do want to ask this: Are there any tips or tricks or must haves with regards to slotting? For example, I have read people talking about the virtues of Soulbound Allegiance Build Up, or the Fiery Orb Proc, or the AotD proc; and, I'm not sure I understand the virtues of these Procs.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Was hoping somebody else would post earlier to learn more about the answers to the questions you're posing; understanding the procs you're wondering about and how to put them to their best use, in particular, is still very much a work in progress for me. 

The illusion primary would probably put the soulbound proc to its best use with three phants fighting a high percentage of the time. Not sure, for dark control, whether the soulbound proc is better in the wolf or in haunt. Stony in earth control or Jack in ice control are the obvious targets for their respective control sets. The imps in fire control can put the soulbound proc to very good use given that there are three of them and they attack fairly fast. So, as long as they're staying alive well the soulbound proc would be great in them. If the imps prove fragile, then of course the soul bound proc won't help much. 

 

When it is proccing, and especially when it stacks with itself, which it can when slotted into a skill that provides multiple pets at once, such as illusion's phants, the soulbound proc noticeably increases damage.  

 

The fiery orb proc can go well in roots or fire cages, for example, as long as you cast it often; you'll want multiple fiery orbs out to notice a difference in AOE damage and to serve as aggro magnets. IIRC a control effect needs to activate for it to cast, and so just as for the AotD +damage proc the fiery orb proc works best in powers that reliably activate control effects. 

The AotD proc works best in powers that will proc it often, but without the +recharge substantially lowering damage for the power in question. Stacking the AotD +damage proc 2-4 times is a good target, which means single target attacks with noticeably slow recharge may not be the best choice for the AotD proc, in general. A plant / psi / psi build is attached with a sample of how AotD might be slotted into a power (subdue) that IIRC has an 80% chance of inflicting a mag 3 immobilize on mobs (so, frequent control effect activation, even if not 100%). As slotted subdue should trigger the AotD +damage proc about 52% of the time that subdue is cast. So, with a recharge time of 2.84 seconds it can be spammed and the AotD damage proc can stack about 1-3 times, perhaps(?) settling in at fairly close to an average of about 1.5 stacks at a time. 

A reasonable alternative for the AotD proc is to slot the whole AotD set into a slower recharging control power for the set bonuses and just treat the proc like a bit of bonus damage. So, for example, the entire AotD set can be slotted into stalagmites for earth control, providing an occasional, single stack of the +damage proc and otherwise just providing good set bonuses. 

Dominator (Plant Control - Psi Assault- Psi Mastery).mbd

Edited December 7, 2023 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Was hoping somebody else would post earlier to learn more

Dark Dominator is ultra strong.  It has a very high ceiling of difficult things to do. 
Excellent damage in the following combo dark/dark but certainly not the only combo it can work well with 

Illusion Dominator is another very good one, and I have no doubt it might have as high of a ceiling as Dark control  ; perma phantom army is just too good.  

Illusion/Dark 
illusion/Psi
Illusion/Radiation 

Have high dmg with good self sustain 

[Uun]

5 hours ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Not sure, for dark control, whether the soulbound proc is better in the wolf or in haunt.

Definitely the wolf. I don't find the shades very useful and skip Haunt entirely.

[Bellicose]

So, I have today off (and tomorrow as well), so lots of testing.  So far, here is what I've done.

 

Dark/Fire/Ice (build #1)

Dark/Fire/Psi (build #2)

Dark/Psi/Ice (build #1)

Dark/Psi/Psi (build #2)

Earth/Fire/Ice (build #1)

Earth/Fire/Psi (build #2)

Earth/Psi/Ice (build #1)

Earth/Psi/Psi (build #2)

Fire/Fire/Ice (build #1)

Fire/Fire/Psi (build #2)

Fire/Psi/Ice (build #1)

Fire/Psi/Psi (build #2)

Ice/Fire/Ice (build #1)

Ice/Fire/Psi (build #2)

Ice/Psi/Ice (build #1)

Ice/Psi/Psi (build #2)

Plant/Fire/Ice (build #1)

Plant/Fire/Psi (build #2)

Plant/Psi/Ice (build #1)

Plant/Psi/Psi (build #2)

Everyone of them can take down a Pylon in 2 to 3 minutes. Although, in just about every case, the builds that could slot the most FotG -Res, Achille's -Res and Annihilation -Res (as well as plop down -Regen) fared better. This really favored x/Psi/Ice.

Everyone of them could run Trapdoor at +4/x8 in 8 to 9 minutes. Fiery Assault fared a little better in terms of clear time as it didn't struggle with Mk I & II Zenith Warcrys so much. Although, the Psi/Ice builds fared better that the Psi/Psi builds. That being said, Psi/Ice always made Trapdoor himself a little easier.

 

As for the Primaries:

Dark Control - I just couldn't find a rhythm with this set. I've taken it to 50 four times. I like it, but I've always played it from the rear as more of a support character and secondary damage source. I tried using Fearsome Stare vs Living Shadows, and while I took less DPS, there were always more seconds in the fight to be concerned about and it was a bit of a wash. I've watched @Voltak videos, and it's really impressive (and I appreciate you coming to this thread and giving advise); however, I just don't think it works with my playstyle.

Earth Control - I had high hopes for this one, as I followed @Frosticus posts and videos about this set. This is another set I've done four times. But, all of those were more general content and for my style I don't think it's going to work for the kind of play I'm looking to get out of this character.

Fire Control - Imps were just too fragile and chaotic, but without them I missed their DPS.

 

Ice Control - This set gives me everything I would want.

Plant Control - This set also gives me everything I would want.

 

So, that leave me trying to figure out between Ice/Psi/Ice and Plant/Psi/Ice. Of course, all of my above testing was done with relatively unrefined builds. So, I guess the next step will be refining those two builds some more and see if someone comes out on top.  Always looking for advice though.

Speaking of advice, thank you to @EnjoyTheJourney for you advice on those procs.

Speaking of procs, I do have a rather specific question. Lets assume a Plant/Psi/Ice...I have Fury of the Gladiator -Res in Psychic Shockwave, Achilles -Res in both Fly Trap AND Sleet, and Annihilation -Res in Roots AND Creepers. I assume that those three different procs and work in concert with each other; but, can two Achilles or two Annihilations proc in concert with each other?

Edited December 7, 2023 by Bellicose

[Uun]

32 minutes ago, Bellicose said:

can two Achilles or two Annihilations proc in concert with each other?

No. They don't even stack from different casters.

[Bellicose]

2 minutes ago, Uun said:

No. They don't even stack from different casters.

 

Good to know. Thanks!

[Frosticus]

Look for a dom with fast aoe control because single target control is basically irrelevant on most teams. It's kind of meaningless solo too, but some people swear by playing slowly with st confuse.

 

Probably want some decent soft control for the many times that hard control fails in harder content. Soft control that actually matters are things like knockdown patches and big slows. Tohit debuffing is nearly worthless in more difficult content. 

 

That should make your choices pretty clear for primary.

 

I like /fire for teams simply because there are times you won't survive in direct melee range. Fire lets you sit comfortably 20ft back and still get all the buffs and none/less of the near instant deaths.

 

/psi is unmatched for survivability. That shouldn't matter as much in a team, but if you solo difficult stuff it can be significant.

 

[...]

11 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Look for a dom with fast aoe control because single target control is basically irrelevant on most teams. It's kind of meaningless solo too, but some people swear by playing slowly with st confuse.

 

Probably want some decent soft control for the many times that hard control fails in harder content. Soft control that actually matters are things like knockdown patches and big slows. Tohit debuffing is nearly worthless in more difficult content. 

 

That should make your choices pretty clear for primary.

 

I like /fire for teams simply because there are times you won't survive in direct melee range. Fire lets you sit comfortably 20ft back and still get all the buffs and none/less of the near instant deaths.

 

/psi is unmatched for survivability. That shouldn't matter as much in a team, but if you solo difficult stuff it can be significant.

 

This sums up Doms very well. 

[Bellicose]

Well, thank you all for your advice. I really went back and forth a lot between Ice/Psi/Ice and Plant/Psi/Ice; but, ultimately, decided on Plant/Psi/Ice.  The speed and effectiveness of Seeds coupled with the 'portability' of Creepers won out. I think it was just a little more DPS, and more sustainable for my tastes.

So, now it is time level up and play Psychedillic.

[MoonSheep]

8 hours ago, Bellicose said:

Well, thank you all for your advice. I really went back and forth a lot between Ice/Psi/Ice and Plant/Psi/Ice; but, ultimately, decided on Plant/Psi/Ice.  The speed and effectiveness of Seeds coupled with the 'portability' of Creepers won out. I think it was just a little more DPS, and more sustainable for my tastes.

So, now it is time level up and play Psychedillic.

 

my good friend @Xiddo has played that combo for a number of years. i’ll let him chime in with his thoughts 

[Nostromo21]

I feel like you want to play a Fortunata instead. Or a Warshade. ;)