Fire/Dark Anyone?

[Dahle]

Anyone playing Fire/Dark out there and have any feedback?  I'm thinking about going for Power Boost and dumping everything i can into +Recharge and Perma Haste/Fade.  You can easily exceed the softcap for something like 15 of every 35 seconds I think (Depending on Force Feedback Procs).  Meaning I think the I might be able to soak some damage on engage when soloing.

Thanks

[Coyote]

Fire / Dark Controller is one of the builds that I consider a top power build. It can solo, it can team, and it can solo AVs.

 

1: Power Boost will boost Fade for the entire duration of Fade if Fade is activated when Power Boost is active. So you don't need to worry too much about the uptime of Power Boost as long as you time them together.

 

2: You don't really need such high Defense. The -ToHit from Dark Miasma is high enough that you have no problems flooring the chances that mobs have to hit, even at 30 Defense. It's nice to have high D, I wouldn't go against it, but you don't really need to worry about it... slotted Darkest Night is about 22% -ToHit, and you will have other powers up also.

 

3: Against AVs, you can't floor their to-hit as easily, but you can still put out an impressive -ToHit against them (over 100% base against a single target, which they resist down to -15%, which is still impressive)... more relevant, though, is that between Darkest Night, spamming Twilight Grasp, and the debuffs from Fluffy, you should floor the AV's damage while putting out constant strong heals. Basically no AV in story arc missions should be able to beat you through damage (except if using undebuffable damage like Tornado), and if you carry Break-Frees you can avoid being mezzed.

 

Dark Miasma is a very strong defensive secondary, and adding it just a bit of controls from the primary means that the character should have little problem soloing at higher difficulties even before loading out with expensive IO set. And Fire Control fits great because it focuses on more damage, which is the right idea when you have a high-defense secondary. All in all, a great combination, and if I weren't already playing Fire Control and Dark Miasma on other characters, I would strongly consider running it myself.

[Dahle]

Thanks. I love that it pairs so well.  I'll have to look at loosening up on some of me Def buffs maybe.  I might've gone overboard if Fade+Power Boost works that way.  Probably can open up some slotting.

[Coyote]

Remember also that Fluffy, slotted with 6-slotted Cloud Senses, will give +Ranged Defense, while also putting out about -30% to hit in a large area around him. So between that and Darkest Night... well, things get REALLY dark :p. Personally, I had so much RngDef on my Dark/Dark, that I dropped Cloud Senses to 4 slots, and I'm using the last 2 for damage procs on Fluffy... probably two on the Hold to give him some single-target damage, though I could go with one Hold proc for single-target and one Immob proc for AoE.

[Dahle]

Remember also that Fluffy, slotted with 6-slotted Cloud Senses, will give +Ranged Defense, while also putting out about -30% to hit in a large area around him. So between that and Darkest Night... well, things get REALLY dark :p. Personally, I had so much RngDef on my Dark/Dark, that I dropped Cloud Senses to 4 slots, and I'm using the last 2 for damage procs on Fluffy... probably two on the Hold to give him some single-target damage, though I could go with one Hold proc for single-target and one Immob proc for AoE.

 

I was thinking 4 slotting Cloud Senses with a 2 slot Lockdown for the chance for +2 Mag Hold.

[subbacultchas]

I don't know about Fire/Dark, but I'm loving Elec/Dark right now. May not be as top tier as Fire, but there's some pretty neat stuff you can pull off with it.

 

As Coyote said, with /Dark you will find that AV's have a really hard time doing much to you. Even without Fluffy, I've been the main tank on Summer Blockbuster AV's on squishy teams quite a bit. It's just a very powerful, extremely survivable secondary.

[Coyote]

Remember also that Fluffy, slotted with 6-slotted Cloud Senses, will give +Ranged Defense, while also putting out about -30% to hit in a large area around him. So between that and Darkest Night... well, things get REALLY dark :p. Personally, I had so much RngDef on my Dark/Dark, that I dropped Cloud Senses to 4 slots, and I'm using the last 2 for damage procs on Fluffy... probably two on the Hold to give him some single-target damage, though I could go with one Hold proc for single-target and one Immob proc for AoE.

 

I was thinking 4 slotting Cloud Senses with a 2 slot Lockdown for the chance for +2 Mag Hold.

 

I wouldn't.

The use of Lockdown's proc is the chance to insta-hold a Boss. A CHARACTER who slots it into their Hold knows this, and will preferentially target a Boss with their single-target Hold. But Fluffy will throw it at anyone around him, which is far more often a Minion or a Lt... and in this case, they'll be Held in any case. So, not only do you have to worry about the proc not firing, but you also have to worry that most of the time when it DOES fire, it will be just to uselessly stack magnitude on a Minion or LT who is held by the base Mag anyhow.

 

Damage is always useful, minion or Boss. Extra Mag on a Mag 3 Hold is only useful when using it on a Boss, and since you can't control the use of it by Fluffy, the proc will rarely have a useful effect.

[Dahle]

Remember also that Fluffy, slotted with 6-slotted Cloud Senses, will give +Ranged Defense, while also putting out about -30% to hit in a large area around him. So between that and Darkest Night... well, things get REALLY dark :p. Personally, I had so much RngDef on my Dark/Dark, that I dropped Cloud Senses to 4 slots, and I'm using the last 2 for damage procs on Fluffy... probably two on the Hold to give him some single-target damage, though I could go with one Hold proc for single-target and one Immob proc for AoE.

 

I was thinking 4 slotting Cloud Senses with a 2 slot Lockdown for the chance for +2 Mag Hold.

 

I wouldn't.

The use of Lockdown's proc is the chance to insta-hold a Boss. A CHARACTER who slots it into their Hold knows this, and will preferentially target a Boss with their single-target Hold. But Fluffy will throw it at anyone around him, which is far more often a Minion or a Lt... and in this case, they'll be Held in any case. So, not only do you have to worry about the proc not firing, but you also have to worry that most of the time when it DOES fire, it will be just to uselessly stack magnitude on a Minion or LT who is held by the base Mag anyhow.

 

Damage is always useful, minion or Boss. Extra Mag on a Mag 3 Hold is only useful when using it on a Boss, and since you can't control the use of it by Fluffy, the proc will rarely have a useful effect.

I decided against it.  I went just for the flat 4 Cloud Senses. I am feeling like the whole thing is very slot hungry, everything could use 6 slots everywhere.

[Hjarki]

2: You don't really need such high Defense. The -ToHit from Dark Miasma is high enough that you have no problems flooring the chances that mobs have to hit, even at 30 Defense. It's nice to have high D, I wouldn't go against it, but you don't really need to worry about it... slotted Darkest Night is about 22% -ToHit, and you will have other powers up also.

 

This is a very unreliable approach. There will always be enemies that add unexpectedly or decide to stay out of range of your debuffs. However, the fact that Power Boost + Fade gets you more than halfway to soft-capping all defenses and the right build is probably hard-capped (or close to it) on S/L resist means that your Darkest Night is just gravy. Currently, I'm tinkering around with options that work without Power Boost (because the rest of Primal Forces is rather uninspiring) to see if I can work with Stone (for HP) or Psychic (for status resist).

[Dahle]

2: You don't really need such high Defense. The -ToHit from Dark Miasma is high enough that you have no problems flooring the chances that mobs have to hit, even at 30 Defense. It's nice to have high D, I wouldn't go against it, but you don't really need to worry about it... slotted Darkest Night is about 22% -ToHit, and you will have other powers up also.

 

This is a very unreliable approach. There will always be enemies that add unexpectedly or decide to stay out of range of your debuffs. However, the fact that Power Boost + Fade gets you more than halfway to soft-capping all defenses and the right build is probably hard-capped (or close to it) on S/L resist means that your Darkest Night is just gravy. Currently, I'm tinkering around with options that work without Power Boost (because the rest of Primal Forces is rather uninspiring) to see if I can work with Stone (for HP) or Psychic (for status resist).

 

I am running 9 toggles (without sprint or Super Speed going).  Conserve Energy is a godsend to engage with; so I can get moving and pop Soul Absorb.  I soft capped all my defenses and I'm 2% from capping S/L.  I feel pretty safe in all situations. Now I can't go run fire farms on +4/x8. But I can have a blast with other level 50s and survive most alphastrikes, just have to keep some break frees on me and remember to reactivate some toggles atm.  Just Conserve Energy and Power Boost make Primal 100% worth it for my build.  I may lack the damage of using Fire Mastery but I'm quite happy that I can go ham on enemies.

[Doomrider]

Power boost looks great on paper but honestly if we're talking strictly personal survivability, it's not worth it.

It will give your fade around 11.5% additional def to all (with t3/4 agility alpha) over non-boosted fade which sounds great right? Ya know what else gives u that much def? 1 small purp insp.

I run /stone on my fire/dark and the added damage and control from seismic smash and fissure alone makes this combo so much stronger. This combo is a beast, so much soft control, hard control and debuffs at your finger tips, if your taking energy just for power boost your selling yourself short imo.

Currently have soft capped s/l defense, and 32.5 to everything else so I'm soft capped to all with 1 small purple.

Moderate resists to everything else. Combine that with all the control you can leverage, pets, buffs, debuffs, this is the imo the best all around controller power combo.

 

Also, you should leverage darkest night not only as a great tool for pulling additional mobs and herding but also for the huge -30% DMG debuff to enemies. The -tohit is just gravy.

 

If /stone is not your thing the next best choice is /psi for the non-incarnate Mez protection, more s/l and psi res and a 20' aoe that can take FFB proc.

 

 

 

[Dahle]

Oh no don't get me wrong, Power Boost isn't what I took Primal for, it is a small bonus.  Conserve Energy is 100% my reason for taking Primal.  I can't maintain End and start without it, I'll bottom out on End before engaging with mobs. And I don't want to start activating all my toggles while getting squished.  I built a toggle build, just because, and it isn't optimal in any way, but that bonus to Def that you get from Power Boost can be quite nice when you're already in Primal for something else.

[Frosticus]

I don't thing PB is supposed to work with fade, so build accordingly for if/when that bug is resolved.

Unless they sorted things out and it now works with other def powers that provide enhanceable resistance as well? (ie cold shields). But imo that would make /cold super overpowered relative to other sets making it a top tier buffing set while being a top tier debuffer with just SO's.

[Dahle]

I don't thing PB is supposed to work with fade, so build accordingly for if/when that bug is resolved.

Unless they sorted things out and it now works with other def powers that provide enhanceable resistance as well? (ie cold shields). But imo that would make /cold super overpowered relative to other sets making it a top tier buffing set while being a top tier debuffer with just SO's.

 

It isn't suppose to, but it does atm.  I can always respec later if that changes.

[Doomrider]

Oh no don't get me wrong, Power Boost isn't what I took Primal for, it is a small bonus.  Conserve Energy is 100% my reason for taking Primal.  I can't maintain End and start without it, I'll bottom out on End before engaging with mobs.

And I don't want to start activating all my toggles while getting squished.  I built a toggle build, just because, and it isn't optimal in any way, but that bonus to Def that you get from Power Boost can be quite nice when you're already in Primal for something else.

 

Strange. I run 7 or 8 toggles, some barely slotted for end redux (some not at all) and I sustain just fine even with only 1 target soul absorption. If your still concerned with end redux for endgame stuff, you could consider support hybrid. Comes with a passive end redux built in and gives u 12% def to all (doubled for pets).

[Dahle]

I run 12 toggles... But Going Support Hybrid might be prefect, it would softcap all my defenses without Power Boost.  I'll still have end problems, but maybe something else will jump at me.

[Doomrider]

Whoa. 12? So assuming... Ss, combat jump, res shield, shadow fall, manuevers, assault, tactics, tough, weave, hot feet... That's 10 what are the other 2?

Also keep in mind hybrid active (12% def) is not permanent but the passive end redux is.

[Dahle]

Whoa. 12? So assuming... Ss, combat jump, res shield, shadow fall, manuevers, assault, tactics, tough, weave, hot feet... That's 10 what are the other 2?

Also keep in mind hybrid active (12% def) is not permanent but the passive end redux is.

 

Sorry, it is 11. I run Whirlwind, though I don't toggle it till i am in the enemies. And in reality I could drop SS while in combat... I just don't.

[Dahle]

I think I'll be cutting Whirlwind for grouping though.  The animation gets in the way for a lot of people.  I absolutely love it, but there are other things that can add to a group other then it.  I am trying out dropping Primal for Psi atm, and it is actually fun.  With Incarntes I can at times be softcapped on all Def, or right below it the rest of the time.

 

I will say, with this Fire/Dark I was about to run +3/x8 Missions with 2 Peacebrings, 1 Archanos Soldier, 3 Sentinels and a Blaster. I tanked into every group with Perma Fade.  Laid down Bonfire and went to town with Fire Cages and Flashfire.  Psionic Tornado is hilarious because is is pretty much up every 4 seconds and it an Bonfire make me look like I have about 85% up time on FF +Rech.  I'll post my build as is once I get home this evening. I kind of think with the removal of Whirlwind for something more friendly to a team, I might stop tinkering.

[Erydanus]

Do you not have the knockback to knockdown IO slotted in whirlwind?

[Dahle]

Do you not have the knockback to knockdown IO slotted in whirlwind?

 

Yep, I have Sudden Acc slotted in it.  Along with a Force Feedback +Rech.  It was pretty awesome.  If I engaged prior to Bonfire being dropped and just Fire Cages, I'd immediately proc FF and hit 2 or 3 mobs with the Knockdown.  But of course, with Bonfire on the ground it is less noticeable.  The animation is quite large on Whirlwind though and even changing the effects didn't really help with visibility for some people.

[Rokkeb]

Can anyone drop a sample build for fire dark? I play mostly melee characters and rolled a fore dark just to try out controllers again and am having a lot of fun but am very much clueless about effective slotting and IO goals.

[Doomrider]

I'll bite. This is what I'm currently running and it serves me well.

 

- Over soft cap for s/l def. 32.5% to everything else; I'm softcapped to all with 1 small purple inspiration.

- light/moderate resists to all dmg types (combined with Darkest Night dmg debuff, makes you quite tanky)

- Sustains off 1 target soul absorption.

- Hasten is perma (leveraged by FFB proc in Fissure)

- Perma Fade / Perma Soul Absorption

- Nearly HP capped w/ EE (will be capped after Accolades) and EE is perma (leveraged by FFB proc and Agility Core)

- Great clear speed, great ST dmg. Dark Servant is a beast with dmg procs since pet proc chance is quite high. Current slotting is optimal for dmg if your a fan of fluffy.

- Pet defense is approx. 30% to all w/o incarnates.

- Hybrid Support Core provides passive end redux to give breathing room while learning (and in the rare instance your SO misses) + soft caps you and your pets when toggled.

- Able to stack holds (Char/Cinders/Seismic)

- Able to stack stuns (Flashfire/Fissure)

- Bonfire for everything else, can have multiple bonfires out. Bonfire + Fire Cages + Darkest night is perfect amount of control in a bind for ambushes when all other hard controls are down.

- Can farm (if so desired), solo AVs, juggle multiple ambushes. Easily my favorite character currently.

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Mender Doom: Level 50 Magic Controller

Primary Power Set: Fire Control

Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity

Power Pool: Speed

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Leadership

Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

 

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Char

• (A) Apocalypse - Damage
  
• (9) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
  
• (21) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  
• (29) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (31) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
  
• (31) Superior Will of the Controller - Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage
  

Level 1: Twilight Grasp

• (A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
  
• (3) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration
  
• (15) Touch of the Nictus - Healing
  
• (17) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 2: Tar Patch

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  
• (3) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 4: Fire Cages

• (A) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff
  
• (5) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (5) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• (7) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
  
• (7) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
  

Level 6: Darkest Night

• (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
  
• (9) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
  
• (11) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
  
• (11) Dark Watcher's Despair - Recharge/Endurance
  

Level 8: Hot Feet

• (A) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
  
• (13) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
  
• (13) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
  
• (15) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  
• (17) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
  

Level 10: Howling Twilight

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 12: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  
• (48) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 14: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  

Level 16: Flashfire

• (A) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
  
• (31) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
  
• (34) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
  
• (34) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (36) Absolute Amazement - Stun
  

Level 18: Cinders

• (A) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (19) Superior Will of the Controller - Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized/Recharge
  
• (19) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
  
• (25) Superior Will of the Controller - Endurance/Recharge
  
• (40) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized/Endurance
  
• (42) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized
  

Level 20: Shadow Fall

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  
• (21) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  
• (27) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
  
• (34) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
  
• (40) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  

Level 22: Fade

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  
• (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (23) Recharge Reduction IO
  
• (25) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  
• (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
  

Level 24: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  
• (42) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
  
• (45) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
  
• (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 26: Super Speed

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 28: Soul Absorption

• (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Recharge
  
• (29) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (36) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Recharge
  
• (36) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy
  
• (37) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
  

Level 30: Tactics

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
  

Level 32: Fire Imps

• (A) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus
  
• (33) Edict of the Master - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (33) Edict of the Master - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• (33) Edict of the Master - Damage
  
• (37) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up
  
• (37) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
  

Level 35: Fissure

• (A) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
  
• (45) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• (46) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
  
• (46) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
  
• (48) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (50) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 38: Dark Servant

• (A) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
  
• (39) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
  
• (39) Accuracy IO
  
• (39) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
  
• (40) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
  
• (46) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
  

Level 41: Seismic Smash

• (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
  
• (43) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
  
• (43) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
  
• (43) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  
• (45) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (50) Unbreakable Constraint - Endurance/Hold
  

Level 44: Rock Armor

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  

Level 47: Earth's Embrace

• (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
  

Level 49: Bonfire

• (A) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown
  

Level 1: Brawl

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Containment

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty
  

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 2: Swift

• (A) Flight Speed IO
  

Level 2: Health

• (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO
  

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  

Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve

Level 0: Task Force Commander

Level 0: The Atlas Medallion

Level 0: Portal Jockey

Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany

Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

Level 50: Support Core Embodiment

Level 50: Agility Core Paragon

------------

 

 

 

 

[Dahle]

Looks a bit like mine, but I finally decided to try Psi in it.  I'm right below capping every defens, line 41-42 across the board w/o incarnates.

[Rokkeb]

Thanks that helps give an idea of what to slot and why as a controller.