Superman Tankers are boring.... but..... intentionally handicapping yourself is hard.....

[Latex]

There's a range of endgame content and I don't think +4/8 is it, the true test of meta-builds is the 4 star content. If your team comp is bad you'll probably struggle, if your powerset choices are on the weaker side you'll struggle or get carried.

For me, COH is one of the best RP platforms out there. But I also like to play the game, I don't really farm so working on a build and getting INF while playing the game works better for me.

To keep to your point, City of Heroes is a weird MMO. I know a lot of the game (though still useless familiarity with sets and making an actual build), this is a game of Buffs and Debuffs, they're the premier powers, which is why having a /Kin, or a /Cold Corruptor on your team will completely change the entire tempo of the team because they arguably do the Buff and Debuff thing better than most other Archetypes -- for me they're also the true 'Ranged Damage' class, Blasters have to go into Melee to make full use of all of their damage, my Fire/Kin Corr pumps out far more damage than any Blaster I know, while being at range (other than to Fulcrum Shift). The thing is for any difficult content other classes, say an EM/Bio Stalker, will capitalise on the moments where all that AOE wasn't good enough, and all those Buffs and Debuffs on you and the harder foes make you really shine. 

If you truly want challenge then the 4 Star TF's are for you, the average +4/8 farm is going to be a stomp most of the time. Things like niche Badges from Incarnate Trials might be something to aim for too.

[Captain Fabulous]

4 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

 

How tough do you expect a tank to be? (your resistances are off BTW), it's higher for non l/s around 78% except psi). Psi has long been a tanker weakness, so one accepts that. On a team, granite is perfectly capable of tanking with minimal support. 

 

Heck, SR will softcap with just weave and the powers in the set. With the level of DDR the set provides, it will work just fine tanking most anything as well. 

 

You shouldn't make absolute statements is really my point. 

 

"I guarantee you no Tank with a common IO build and no Incarnates is tanking +4/x8."

Many sets are kinda squishy without IOs yes, but granite never suffered from that. It suffered from self inflicted pain. 

 

 

The OP claimed that Tanks are boring and too easy because even at +4/x8 they are unkillable. My point was that's only true if you choose to use IO sets to make you that way, and that Tanks with an SO or common IO build are far from godly. Then you came in and went "ackchyualllly, Granite...", as if finding one exception to the rule disproves my point. It doesn't, because even Granite isn't godly across the board without IO sets. And as we both agree it comes with significant deficiencies in other areas.

SR is great and all until you actually do get hit (which will be roughly 5-10% of the time) for near full damage because your resists are minimal (again, using an SO or common IO build). Also not godly. And that's my point. One has to choose to use IO sets to make themselves godly. No AT is that way out of the box. So if you don't want your Tank to be godly, stick to SOs and common IOs.

[Skyhawke]

Want a real challenge? Take a Rad/Regen Scrapper through Praetoria. Go ahead. I'll wait...next to the hospital...where you'll be... a lot. 🤪

[Paragon Vanguard]

On 1/8/2024 at 5:17 AM, MoonSheep said:

 

you have such a good point with this

 

when i first started out, i picked things which were the most fun and ran with it

 

thesedays i find it difficult, my mind wants to pick what’s most optimal and has the best contribution, rather than the most enjoyable

 

Go concept thinking. Who is this character? You will be surprised how much fun it can be to try and make them work. 

The only thing I have yet to really make work, and I am not done yet, is a no pet MM. I wanted the whip for the concept, and it has been utterly challenging, but doable. I say not work because I am not ready to do +4 x 8 solo, and doubt I ever will. I have considered giving in and getting the demons, but no...... I WILL MAKE THIS WORK! 

[Clave Dark 5]

3 hours ago, Paragon Vanguard said:

The only thing I have yet to really make work, and I am not done yet, is a no pet MM.

I didn't go that crazy, but I've made two Beast MMs that only use the Lions... because I like cats.  The second one was a Storm and that worked so well (well... the dmg output wasn't too awful anyway) that I didn't think I needed to try and find another secondary to pair "only lions" with.

[BazookaTwo]

I play a Shield/Kin Melee for this reason. It's great on a team but not so great solo. It was a challenge to build a total team support guy with the most ranged attacks possible. 

[Black Talon]

I've got some considerable sympathy for PancakeGnome's OP argument; and I agree with Paragon Vanguard's point about character concept making all the difference.  Aside from some points regarding IO benefits and so on, the Archetypes work out with considerable similarity - a Tanker is always going to be a Tanker, and have the same list/s of primary/secondary powers to choose from.  Along with the mathematically driven and constricted array of bad guys, there is always going to be a numerical limit on what can be done and what can be done to a specific alt.

 

My own Superman clone is IN/SS with appropriate tertiary powers.  Where the difference comes along is in how he got to where he is: as I've detailed in his origin, he started off as a bigot with neo-Nazi inclinations, dropping out at fifteen and joining the Fifth Column.  He and his unit were in a territorial dispute with Arachnos in White Plains - original name for the Rikti War Zone - when the Rikti mothership crashed and devastated the area.  The building the combatants were in was destroyed and the character himself was trapped in the ship's forcefield for eighteen years.  Released by accident during a Hero attack on the ship, he realized that the alien radiations had granted him invulnerability and super-strength. With his family now scattered across the country, he was faced with a choice - become an elite enforcer for a villain group or try to reform his life and become a new and better man.  He's chosen the latter, and every day marks another opportunity to make up for - and try to forget - the person he once was.

 

Thus, every time this guy takes out a group of Arachnos/Council/Fifth Column, among others, he feels like he's erasing an ugly part of himself.  No, this doesn't have a damn thing to do with what powers he's got, how they're used, what the mathematics/coding is behind them or how bad guys get taken out.  His difference lies solely in his origins and outlook on the world, and these keep me interested enough in him to keep him going well past the level 50 cut-off.

[lemming]

20 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Want a real challenge? Take a Rad/Regen Scrapper through Praetoria. Go ahead. I'll wait...next to the hospital...where you'll be... a lot. 🤪

I ran a Psi/Regen scrapper thru Praetoria.   Just have to watch out for the regen debuffs, but you recover quick.

[PancakeGnome]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:43 PM, Captain Fabulous said:

I really don't understand this, because even Tanks are squishy with SOs or common IOs. You have to purposefully go out of your way to make them godly. So maybe just don't do that?

I guarantee you no Tank with a common IO build and no Incarnates is tanking +4/x8.

Leveling up and grabbing a few IO bonuses is something most people will have done while running task forces. So throwing in +3 defense and +res and even a tanker archetype +res into stuff is very easy and achievable for anyone by the time they are 30-40. And once you have the main ones, you are sitting at a nice bump to defense and res and most tankers will be pretty dang beefy. 

I guess someone completely new that doesn't know anything will have more trouble. But anyone that has a grasp of what is available will be up to speed pretty quickly.....

[biostem]

I play whatever concept currently has my interest.  It's fairly easy to find a tanker/brute/scrapper or other AT that is willing to take the 1st hit - they usually just need to know others have their back.  If you don't want to play said "meat-shield", then try someone who can keep them standing and fighting.  If you want a good compromise, try either a sentinel or a controller with something like FF or sonic that can provide you with some more protection.