Fix Bad Mission Design

[ecjones2]

"Defeat Veles" and similar missions are Timed Escort Missions, the worst kind of feces any game can contain.  Maybe it was an original NC Soft/Cryptic design but that kind of refuse should be removed/changed to make the game better. 

[Frostbiter]

I kind of agree with it being bad mission design in general but that particular mission is only hard because of Veles and then you get hit with an escort. The timer is more  for tension than anything. It's 150' to the door in that mission. I helped someone with Veles the other day. I had enough time to rescue the NPC, run to the door, forget I had stealth on, and then run the hall twice more.

[High_Beam]

What @Frostbiter said, tension.  I honestly love that arc because of moments like that.  Well the whole thing really.  Chernobog's cutscenes, the rave music in that club where those asshole Skulls:

Spoiler

Lock the ravers in with orders to kill anyone who tries to get out

And yes, the timer.  Honestly its a well crafted series of missions compared to things like escorting the office workers in OG Positron through waves of Ruin Mage-infused ambushed.  And its not just old NCSoft/Cryptic; do the Homecoming created Story Arc of awesome called the Graveyard Shift.

Spoiler

Get out of the explody in time.

Are there annoying ones, sure.  Roy Cooling Arc (

Spoiler

Where you have to rescue the Rogue PPD Cops form the burning building for the badge.

Tension and you feel you earned your reward.

[ranagrande]

Does the timer even do anything?  I usually have it run out and I can still complete the mission anyway.

[Snarky]

generally if you fail any mission on time in CoH it is due to:

 

1) this pizza guy showed up, and rammed his car into your house, then barricaded himself inside, while holding you at gunpoint

 

1a) this is why i never deliver pizzas anymore

[ZorkNemesis]

On the contrary, I actually like the tight timed missions.  Prior to more recent updates before sunset, pretty much any timed mission that wasn't from Efficiency Expert Pither was far too generous for it's time limit.  The short timers add to a sense of urgency in the narratives (the building's about to explode, wrap things up and get the hell out!) while also making you have to focus for a change.

 

Also, in the case of Veles, that arc may not have actually been fully tested and ready.  It was part of the major update that was set to come just before the shutdown was announced.  It may have some issues stemming from the development's plug being pulled.

[ShadesofDawn7971]

10 minutes ago, Snarky said:

generally if you fail any mission on time in CoH it is due to:

 

1) this pizza guy showed up, and rammed his car into your house, then barricaded himself inside, while holding you at gunpoint

 

1a) this is why i never deliver pizzas anymore

 To the first part, yeah, I've even had timed missions where I've died and had to run back and still had time to complete the mission with ease within the timer.

To the second part...  we need a Red Side mission where you are tasked to deliver a pizza to a super base in an attempt to get in undercover to plant a bug.  Instead everything goes tits up so you have to blast your way in, barracade yourself inside while your contact ransacks their computer remotely, all while police and supers form up outside.  Maybe having to run around the base to stop infiltration attempts.  Then you have to blast your way back out through them and escape.

[Snarky]

2 minutes ago, ShadesofDawn7971 said:

 To the first part, yeah, I've even had timed missions where I've died and had to run back and still had time to complete the mission with ease within the timer.

To the second part...  we need a Red Side mission where you are tasked to deliver a pizza to a super base in an attempt to get in undercover to plant a bug.  Instead everything goes tits up so you have to blast your way in, barracade yourself inside while your contact ransacks their computer remotely, all while police and supers form up outside.  Maybe having to run around the base to stop infiltration attempts.  Then you have to blast your way back out through them and escape.

It sounds like YOU are ready to write an AE arc!

[Go0gleplex]

I've never had any issues with timed missions, Veles included. Most of them I don't even hit the halfway mark before completing...and that's going solo. I'd simply like to see a LOT more variety in villains throughout the zones rather than focus groups by level band. It's not like the bad guys are lacking numbers. 😉 

[High_Beam]

42 minutes ago, ranagrande said:

Does the timer even do anything?  I usually have it run out and I can still complete the mission anyway.

Depends.  In Cooling's arc you don't make the time you don't get the badge.  In Graveyard, you don't get the badge.  Failure rarely results in the full fail, just look at that doctor rescue in Moonfire.

 

Do not mention Efficiency Expert Pither.  That MFer counts time to the nano-second and sucks.

 

Funny though.  First time I ever did Hess back on live that countdown timer effed me up panicking.

Edited January 25 by High_Beam

[A Cat]

You think that mission is bad? I liked it quite a bit. Some real bad mission designs are in Croatoa. I like the place and arcs overall but damn there are three missions in particular off the top of my mind that are stinkers. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this. 

[ZorkNemesis]

2 minutes ago, A Cat said:

there are three missions in particular off the top of my mind that are stinkers. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this. 

 

Stop the Ritual, which is a kill-all in disguise on a big map and mobs run for an exit.  Automatic skip in my books, one of the few I do that with.

[High_Beam]

1 hour ago, ZorkNemesis said:

 

Stop the Ritual, which is a kill-all in disguise on a big map and mobs run for an exit.  Automatic skip in my books, one of the few I do that with.

Yeah that one kind of blows and sucks at the same time.  I only do Croatoa arcs with my magic origin types.

[JasperStone]

Ray Cooling Story Arc 

In the end, you Defeat Mr Y. in a Burning Building

Suddenly, it turns into a timed Mission where you have 5 minutes to rescue 12 NPC, Find Harken, and lead him to the exit.

The Tension is awesome!

 

 

[Rudra]

19 hours ago, ShadesofDawn7971 said:

 To the first part, yeah, I've even had timed missions where I've died and had to run back and still had time to complete the mission with ease within the timer.

To the second part...  we need a Red Side mission where you are tasked to deliver a pizza to a super base in an attempt to get in undercover to plant a bug.  Instead everything goes tits up so you have to blast your way in, barracade yourself inside while your contact ransacks their computer remotely, all while police and supers form up outside.  Maybe having to run around the base to stop infiltration attempts.  Then you have to blast your way back out through them and escape.

There kind of sort of is one? I can't remember which one, but there is a mission where you infiltrate a Longbow base and have to take out the Longbow supervisors or night watch, and one of the Longbow targets is "Wait, you aren't the snack machine guy!". (Or something like that.)

[Rudra]

19 hours ago, Go0gleplex said:

I've never had any issues with timed missions, Veles included. Most of them I don't even hit the halfway mark before completing...and that's going solo. I'd simply like to see a LOT more variety in villains throughout the zones rather than focus groups by level band. It's not like the bad guys are lacking numbers. 😉 

There are 2 timed missions that are problems in my book, and one of those is intentional in design. (You are supposed to fail it, but if you remember where the glowies were on the previous map, you can get them on the timed map and not fail.) The one that wasn't designed to be a problem was a red side mission that was a defeat all for Freakshow and it had the Arachnos layer cake room. With one of the Freakshow somehow all the way on a ceiling pipe where he shouldn't have been able to get to. (You get 90 minutes to finish that mission, and I had less than 10 seconds left before I finally found him and defeated him.) Barring odd spawning like that lone Freakshow though? Yeah, there is ample time to finish a timed mission.

[cranebump]

I’ve had Veles kick my ass before. But I can’t recall ever failing the timed rescue. Might be an issue if you’re still being chased by Veles’s Grave Knight (which I believe doesn’t die because Veles surrenders before he falls).

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, cranebump said:

I’ve had Veles kick my ass before. But I can’t recall ever failing the timed rescue. Might be an issue if you’re still being chased by Veles’s Grave Knight (which I believe doesn’t die because Veles surrenders before he falls).

The Grave Knight can be defeated, but Veles will always summon a replacement.

[cranebump]

He won’t after he surrenders will he?

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, cranebump said:

He won’t after he surrenders will he?

Yes, he will. As long as Veles is on the map and combat has started, even after it is finished and he has surrendered, he will summon a replacement as needed to always have a Grave Knight available. And the Grave Knight, as a pet, remains hostile to you regardless of whether or not the fight with Veles is done. Fighting the Grave Knight just uses up time, both while fighting Veles and after he surrenders.

 

Edited January 27 by Rudra
Edited to add "to always have a Grave Knight available".