Sorcery Powerset

[Rudra]

Oh!!! We have hook hands in the costume creator, right? What if the devs added wand hands too? (Not as in wands for hands, but adding wands to a fist for players to select for their characters. Emanation points may be tricky to work, but would it be feasible?)

[Player2]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Oh!!! We have hook hands in the costume creator, right? What if the devs added wand hands too? (Not as in wands for hands, but adding wands to a fist for players to select for their characters. Emanation points may be tricky to work, but would it be feasible?)

Why stop there?  Why not wand Heads?  Since we can have headless characters, just put a wand there instead of a rubber ducky.  Hey, why not Wand boots instead of peg legs for those magical martial artists?  I know... a wand chest detail, too!

 

Why not?  Because you suggested it and that makes it all inherently wrong.  

[Player2]

Just now, Player2 said:

Why stop there?  Why not wand Heads?  Since we can have headless characters, just put a wand there instead of a rubber ducky.  Hey, why not Wand boots instead of peg legs for those magical martial artists?  I know... a wand chest detail, too!

 

Why not?  Because you suggested it and that makes it all inherently wrong.  

Also... SHOULDER WANDS!!  BWAAA-HAHAHA!!!

 

Also no.

[Rudra]

Just now, Player2 said:

Why stop there?  Why not wand Heads?  Since we can have headless characters, just put a wand there instead of a rubber ducky.  Hey, why not Wand boots instead of peg legs for those magical martial artists?  I know... a wand chest detail, too!

 

Why not?  Because you suggested it and that makes it all inherently wrong.  

Okay, you're taking your tantrum too far. I'm asking you to engage in a reasonable conversation on this.

[Player2]

Just now, Rudra said:

Okay, you're taking your tantrum too far. I'm asking you to engage in a reasonable conversation on this.

I've tried engaging in reasonable conversation with you in the past, but it always resorts to you just being outright wrong and unable to have any sort of conversation that doesn't end with your opinion is the only one that matters.  So.... nah, I'll just continue to point out how you're wrong whenever you choose to engage with me and I feel like it.

[Vic Raiden]

What the Shadow Shard is even going on here anymore...

[tiggertoga]

I see some are people are responding to “magic”, but I also said sorcery or even a wand powerset.  my idea wasn’t in the term, it was what we can do with it which is why I gave specific examples. 😁 Hope this helps. 

Edited March 11 by tiggertoga

[tiggertoga]

32 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Also... SHOULDER WANDS!!  BWAAA-HAHAHA!!!

 

Also no.

I don’t know what triggered you but I hope you’re ok. 🙏🏾 lol the conversation was never that serious lol 

[tiggertoga]

37 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Oh!!! We have hook hands in the costume creator, right? What if the devs added wand hands too? (Not as in wands for hands, but adding wands to a fist for players to select for their characters. Emanation points may be tricky to work, but would it be feasible?)

Actually…that might scratch the itch I’m looking for lol maybe not completely but it’s a start! 

[Player2]

6 minutes ago, tiggertoga said:

I see some are people are responding to “magic”, but I also said sorcery or even a wand powerset.  my idea wasn’t in the term, it was what we can do with it which is why I gave specific examples. 😁 Hope this helps. 

The idea of an Arcane themed blast set has come up more than once before.  There are always arguments for and against, but even when pointed out that "Arcane" only implies magic but doesn't have to be restricted to Magic origin use, there will always be people that rail against it simply on some wrong-headed principle and no amount of reasonable discussion will persuade them, nor will they simply pass such a topic by without voicing their opinion on why it's a bad idea.  So don't get hung up on terms... it's not you, it's them.

[megaericzero]

3 hours ago, Player2 said:

You know, we don't NEED guns.  No Assault Rifle, no Beam Rifle, no Dual Pistols... just take those models and animations away and make them generic so that anyone can use the mechanics of the set.  Beam Rifle?  Nah, just use energy blast and assume the object's presence.  Does it matter if it's tech or magic or whatever?  Nah, just leave it up to the players to fill in the blanks on how their power is manifesting and why.  We don't need obvious tech/gadget pieces to explain why the powers exist... and then you can play all the powersets as whatever guns you want.

You're being facetious but, honestly, yeah - those are great customization ideas. Let people use AR/BR/DP with alternate animations for integrated body weapons - "Gun Gauntlets", "Laser Arms," or "Tech Blast" don't need to be their own set.

 

And no one is saying to take away anything; Arcane Blast (or whatever name you pick) doesn't exist. By and large, we're actually saying add a heck of a lot more options to existing sets. Heck, some of us (just me?) are saying go crazy and have an elemental set(s) but let them be open to all origin interpretations at their base.

 

3 hours ago, Player2 said:

Did we ever need more than one sword powerset?  Why was Katana different?  For the different sword and animations?  Because it mostly functioned like Broad Sword mechanically.  When we got COV, why did they create Ninja Blade as a powerset instead of Katana with Assassin Strike and Placate?

 

I joined around issue 5 but - at least from what I hear from someone who played since launch - Katana used to be "Broad Sword for weebs" because weapon and power (animation) customization were not a thing. That's why their power tables line up visually 1:1. (Heck, the internal name for the Katana icons are Broad Sword's power names.)

 

You can't take that away now - both because people would complain but also very likely the database just wouldn't be able to handle it. The two sets could try harder to be different from one another though the cottage rule would likely get in the way.

 

As for Ninja Blade I really hope you're playing around. You know it's because Stalkers always have to have Assassin's [Something], Build Up, and Placate as their t4-t6 powers. Why they renamed the set on Stalkers *shrug*. Probably to give it a slightly different model and unsheathing animation because it also existed well before weapon/power customization.

 

3 hours ago, Player2 said:

Battle Axe and War Mace were practically the same set all along until recently, with the only thing differentiating them being one does Smashing damage and has mostly blunt weapon models and the other does Lethal damage and has edged weapons.

Yeah BS, BA, and WM - or the latter two at least - probably should've been one set called Medieval Weapon or something and had a Swap Ammo-type power to go between the two/three but here we are, still repenting for the sins of our fathers original live dev team in many aspects of the game.

Edited March 11 by megaericzero

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Oh!!! We have hook hands in the costume creator, right? What if the devs added wand hands too? (Not as in wands for hands, but adding wands to a fist for players to select for their characters. Emanation points may be tricky to work, but would it be feasible?)

That's literally what I meant by a "wands combat aura."

 

Some of the combat auras can be set to radiate only around the hands and only while in combat. So a "wands combat aura" would show a wand in the character's hand, but only when they're in combat stance.

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, Player2 said:

Ooh, look, hyperbole but in many more words than are in this quote box. And I'm not quoting all the other fairly ridiculous replies you've posted.

 

And what makes Fire blast not magical?  (And please explain it to the generations of D&D players who've cast Fireball.) What makes anything else so non-magic that we "need" an "arcane" powerset... which always seems to come down to "I want to wave a magic wand around?" (Which... again, animation/costume options! Hell, it'd probably be more sensible for Dual Pistols than flipping guns in the air for every shot. Elfstones, anyone?)

 

Nothing that the OP said, you've said, or anyone else that's suggested a "magical" set has really offered anything that *couldn't* be done with different animations.  Yes, I know you don't like that answer. No, I don't care. And no, there's no particular reason to have a powerset called "magical" or "arcane" or "abracadabra" just because it has some different secondary effect. Why pigeonhole it into a "must be arcane" instead of having the *player* decide *for their character* why X powerset has Y effect? Especially when things *with lore reasons* to be restricted - namely Khelds (with their origins) and VEATs (gender and origin) - no longer are and haven't been for quite some time?

 

And why *shouldn't* fire/dark/empathy/pain domination/earth control have the option to wave a wand or staff or rune or whatever to have their powers trigger? Why do you want to restrict them just because a costume/power customization option isn't good enough for you?

 

Your argument basically boils down to "I want it." Which is fine. Want stuff.  Just realize it's not very strong as an argument.

[Player2]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Nothing that the OP said, you've said, or anyone else that's suggested a "magical" set has really offered anything that *couldn't* be done with different animations.  Yes, I know you don't like that answer. No, I don't care. And no, there's no particular reason to have a powerset called "magical" or "arcane" or "abracadabra" just because it has some different secondary effect. Why pigeonhole it into a "must be arcane" instead of having the *player* decide *for their character* why X powerset has Y effect? Especially when things *with lore reasons* to be restricted - namely Khelds (with their origins) and VEATs (gender and origin) - no longer are and haven't been for quite some time?

 

Nothing?  I've addressed this topic on more than one occasion, but the problem is it always degrades into either "this can be solved by giving alternate animations to other powersets" or "I reject magical themed power set because it pigeonholes players into taking the Magic origin" or some other nonsense.

 

I've suggested that mechanically a magical set should be more flexible than a single damage type like what you would get with Magic origin Fire Blast or Magic Origin Dark Blast or Magic Origin Energy Blast.  Ideally it should be a new powerset that will admittedly share characteristics with existing powersets... as others that were added later also did (looking at Dual Pistols and Beam Rifle), but that while existing single type power sets could be considered specialist magic focused on one (or two with secondary powerset) kinds of magic, an Arcane themed powerset should be more flexible, either offering different kinds of damage & effects out of the box (like Assault Rifle with it's lethal and fire damage) with each attack or perhaps use something like the Swap Ammo power of Dual Pistols to offer varying damage types and effects.  While other powersets would be dedicated specialists, this would be more akin to the flexibility of general magical practitioners who manifest a wider variety of spell type effects.  The multiple modes power effect has been used a few times in Dual Pistols, Staff Fighting, and Bio Armor, so it's not introducing a new mechanic to the game code, but how you assign the the effects could make it unique to a new, different power set.

 

I've also addressed the issue of pigeonholing with the Magic origin for a "spellcasting" powerset.  First off, start with two the spellcaster theme animations and effects, this lets people who want a dedicated magical flavor spellcaster type character to realize that potential way more than adding the Runes combat aura to one or both hands.  But also offer alternate animations with more generic effects for people that might be interested in the powers but not the "magic" theme.  And Origin is meaningless.  Just like people taking the Magic origin for their gun character and stating that their character has a magical weapon or whatever... you could absolutely apply the origins other than Magic to an Arcane powerset.  I've offered possible explanations for how each could be interpreted, but the arguments often come back to "it's magic so it must be tied to Magic origin and I reject blah blah blah."  Simple solution is to not call the powerset Magic Blast and refer to it as Arcane Blast (or Support or Control or whatever magical variant set is being pitched at the moment) because Arcane might sound magical and give a magical vibe, but it does not explicitly mean magic.  It leaves it open to individual player interpretation like everything else.

 

And if I come off as dismissive of some people's outright rejection, it's because no matter how much I present logical and/or well-thought out explanations for why I think it's a good idea, I get bullshit nonsense and dismissive attitudes because at the core, some people just don't want a magic-themed powerset.  And if that's the kind of reaction I get for trying to present good arguments, then I will absolutely be outright dismissive of such people's rejection and will present my own nonsensical arguments against their rejections.  Why should I bother reiterating well stated arguments only to have them dismissed because "But I don't want it so I will always against it every time the topic comes up"?  I'd rather just mock their derision with ill-conceived ideas like shoulder wands costume pieces because stating any of what I've done before means nothing, so if I can't have what I and others want then at least I can have fun being dismissive of their lame arguments against it.

 

Also, Rudra and PeregrineFalcon are wrong about everything in every post they make and they should both be ignored.  Any commentary or negative reactions from them should be summarily dismissed as worthless... even when I happen to be in agreement with either on a given topic.  Agreeing with Rudra or PeregrineFalcon on anything makes me wrong, too.

Edited March 12 by Player2

[Player2]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

And what makes Fire blast not magical?  (And please explain it to the generations of D&D players who've cast Fireball.) What makes anything else so non-magic that we "need" an "arcane" powerset... which always seems to come down to "I want to wave a magic wand around?" (Which... again, animation/costume options! Hell, it'd probably be more sensible for Dual Pistols than flipping guns in the air for every shot. Elfstones, anyone?)

 

The commentary about the guns was to point out the hypocrisy.  We had a lethal damage powerset with Assault Rifle.  We didn't NEED another with Dual Pistols except back in the day people were begging the old devs for a pistol melee set because they wanted gun fu like in that Gun Kata movie.  They didn't give people what they asked for, exactly... but they did give the dual pistols and some of the crazy off the wall animations to make those people feel better about not getting gun melee like the flavor-of-the-month movie.

 

We didn't NEED Beam Rifle, either.  It's just Energy Blast from a gun.  Well, no it's not... but it could have been.  And if we didn't have it today but people were asking for an energy gun powerset, the logic would be "just play Energy Blast; you don't need it to come from a gun.  It can be technology like Iron Man's energy beam gauntlets if you take the right Gloves costume option or you could just pretend you have a gun."  But we got Beam Rifle and it was welcomed by many who enjoy it.

 

Just because some people don't want something doesn't mean that it couldn't have potential as an idea, but to outright dismiss the idea --especially any and every time it comes up-- because it rubs you the wrong way or whatever is pretty damned selfish.  "I don't like it, so I don't want anyone to have it.  Screw you all, I'm going home."

 

So that's what the weapon customization argument was referencing.  But, honestly, you didn't deserve that explanation because I'm sick of trying to use logical and reasoned arguments and then having things summed up as "I want it isn't a strong argument."  I said earlier in this post that I will never not support this idea because I think it has merit.  But there are the yahoos that will shoot it down every time simply because someone else wants it.  You know what?  "I don't want it" isn't a very strong argument either.   Neither is offering suggestions like using Runes combat aura on whatever other powersets and calling it magic.  Yeah, we get it... everything can be magic.  That explanation is as weak as you think "I want it" is, so either do better or keep it to yourself.

[Sunsette]

While new customization effects for existing powersets would be nice, "magic", at least in the forms of wizardry or sorcery, often conjure up conceptions of powers which have a large variety of effects rather than a few generic and tightly-grouped effects. A great example of this in action is the Bio Armor powerset, which does a variety of things that don't really have any link aside from the high concept of "mutation", compared to older sets which are largely high mechanical concept. Bio is largely considered to be one of the best sets for every single AT that gets it as a result of adhering tightly to theme, not just mechanically but conceptually.

 

If we want to step to something slightly more generic (as Bio Armor itself does not outright call itself Mutation Armor, for example) we could call it a "Chaos" or "Improbable" set.

 

While this could potentially be a work-prohibitive set, depending on how existing powers from both NPCs and player sets are recycled, it could even end up lighter on art requirements than the alternative suggestions presented which would entirely require new art assets.

Edited March 12 by Sunsette

[Player2]

20 hours ago, biostem said:

What makes an attack "magic", though?  A fireball can be magic.  A lightning bolt can be magic.  A chunk of metal traveling at high speeds could also have been caused to do so by, you guessed it, magic.  The difference here is that seeing someone lift up a hunk of material and cause smaller hunks of material to go flying out at high speed doesn't actually tell you how it's been caused to do so.  *You* may be satisfied to label that as "technology" and go on about your business, and IRL you'd be totally justified in doing so, but not in the world of CoH.  Heck, I'm surprised there aren't entire villain groups that use tech to pretend they're magic users or visa-versa, (though I suppose the Council/5th Column Vampyri and War Wolves are kinda close).  When you get right down to it, it's how the powers are labeled;  Dark powers tell you they're coming from or tapping into some nether realm, but still don't dictate *how* you're accomplishing such a feat...

The point of my commentary is always that origin is meaningless BECAUSE any origin can be applied to any powerset.  But sometimes the argument against a magical themed powerset comes up that it MUST be Magic origin and that's too specific to be useful... even if you reasonably offer alternatives like alternate animations with and without the spellcasting animations/effects, even if you replace Magic with the not-necessarily-magical alternative of Arcane, some yahoo will insist that it is too specific of one origin.  Even if you explain multiple ways that other origins could be applied to an Arcane-themed powerset, like a Mutatation that can innately control magical effects... even if you offer a published example of a character that uses Technology to simulate the appearance of magic use... some narrowminded people will still say that this is too specific to one origin.  Even if you point out how blatantly technological powersets like Beam Rifle could absolutely be played as a magical weapon and ask so why can't something look like it's magical but be Technology or Science...

 

 

Well, you should get the idea.  My point is that no matter how many explanations and arguments are made, some people just disagree outright and shoot down every explanation because it doesn't mesh with their personal idea of what should be, and will show up in such a discussion with forum-stalkery efficiency to shoot down any discussion.  So if any of my explanations in this thread seem like they're counter-intuitive to what I've stated in the past... blame Rudra.

[biostem]

27 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Arcane-themed powerset

You do not seem to be able to separate the ORIGIN of one's powers with the powers themselves.  I'll ask again - WHAT makes something magic, arcane, or whatever other synonym you want to throw in there?

 

28 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Even if you point out how blatantly technological powersets like Beam Rifle could absolutely be played as a magical weapon and ask so why can't something look like it's magical but be Technology or Science...

This highlights the confusion even further - Beam Rifle is only "blatantly technological" if you conflate the appearance of a thing with the source of a thing.  The limitation of gun = technology only applies to real life.  Heck, one of the weapon models is blatantly called a "Rune Soldier Rifle" and another is "Celestial Rifle".  What separates that from this proposed "Sorcery set" is that it doesn't shove a specific origin or source down your throat.  It's the same with dark blast - it only describes WHAT the attacks consist of, not how your character goes about projecting them or where or how they go about doing so.

[Player2]

  

40 minutes ago, biostem said:

You do not seem to be able to separate the ORIGIN of one's powers with the powers themselves.  I'll ask again - WHAT makes something magic, arcane, or whatever other synonym you want to throw in there?

 

 

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

So if any of my explanations in this thread seem like they're counter-intuitive to what I've stated in the past... blame Rudra.

I'm absolutely capable of separating origin and powers, but if I've made any statements in this thread that make it seem otherwise... blmae Rudra.

 

Anyway, "Arcane" is just a descriptive name.  And while some may want to conflate or associate it with magic, it does not inherently mean magic.  The definition of Arcane is "known or knowable only to a few people"  and/or "secret. arcane rites. an arcane ritual. broadly : mysterious, obscure."  Definitions which absolutely could apply to spellcaster abilities, but it's also just as applicable to a completely non-magical secret handshake.  An Arcane themed powerset which is intended to cater to those looking for magical-themed abilities can look to this, but the fact that it isn't specifically "MAGIC" is implied by the term Arcane so anyone could use these mysterious abilities and explain them away as however they want.

  

40 minutes ago, biostem said:

This highlights the confusion even further - Beam Rifle is only "blatantly technological" if you conflate the appearance of a thing with the source of a thing.  The limitation of gun = technology only applies to real life.  Heck, one of the weapon models is blatantly called a "Rune Soldier Rifle" and another is "Celestial Rifle".  What separates that from this proposed "Sorcery set" is that it doesn't shove a specific origin or source down your throat.  It's the same with dark blast - it only describes WHAT the attacks consist of, not how your character goes about projecting them or where or how they go about doing so.

And Arcane powers are only "blatantly magical" if you conflate Magic origin with all things that are considered secret rites or otherwise mysterious/obscure powers.  But if you can say that a gun isn't inherently technological, then why can't we also assume that Arcane powers aren't inherently magical?  Maybe a player wants to play them as psionic in nature... or wields tech-armor that channels forces in a way that looks somewhat magical but isn't?  What if the arcane rites are just a science that people aren't familiar with like some kind of ancient alchemy?

 

I feel like you're arguing just to argue.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12 by Player2

[Player2]

Just in case you're still feeling like an origin is being shoved down your throat...

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/arcane

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/arcane

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/arcane

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arcane

 

Or... if you still can't separate and don't like a magical themed power set...  Then don't play it.

Even if they make such a powerset, no one would force you to use it.

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Player2 said:

The definition of Arcane is "known or knowable only to a few people"  and/or "secret. arcane rites. an arcane ritual. broadly : mysterious, obscure."

And now you're just being pedantic.  We're talking about a world based upon comic book tropes, so in that context, arcane = magic.  The big difference here is that throwing fire or electricity doesn't tell anything about WHERE or HOW a character does so.  I'll ask you again - what makes something "arcane"?  What visual cues would such a set entail?  If your answer is runes, glyphs, magic circles, etc, then you are showing your hand.  It's not the damage type, and it's not a particular set of buffs/debuffs or other such in-set mechanics.

 

11 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Maybe a player wants to play them as psionic in nature... or wields tech-armor that channels forces in a way that looks somewhat magical but isn't?

And such things could be accomplished by providing the relevant graphical effects.  What would make this set "arcane"?  What's the distinguishing feature(s) of arcane things?

 

11 minutes ago, Player2 said:

What if the arcane rites are just a science that people aren't familiar with like some kind of ancient alchemy?

See the famous Clarke quote, but that doesn't answer the question.

 

11 minutes ago, Player2 said:

I feel like you're arguing just to argue.

Feel however you like.  Doesn't make it so.

Edited March 12 by biostem

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Just in case you're still feeling like an origin is being shoved down your throat...

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/arcane

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/arcane

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/arcane

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arcane

 

Or... if you still can't separate and don't like a magical themed power set...  Then don't play it.

Even if they make such a powerset, no one would force you to use it.

You're obfuscating the question - how would this translate into the game?  What would make this proposed set "arcane", but not fire blasts?  What would make this set, necessarily, come from or otherwise be derived from secret rites or long-lost practices?  Could electrical blast be arcane?  Could radiation blast?  You'll note that we have psychic blasts, but it doesn't mention you have a mutation or that you're of a race that has natural telepathy.  Powersets don't tell you that they come from secret techniques or mysterious corners of the CoH universe, only what they do or what kind of effects they produce.

[Rudra]

The literal definition of arcane is secret, mysterious, or obscure. So what is that in game mechanics is what @biostem is asking. How do you present a "secret blast" set, a "mysterious blast" set, or an "obscure blast" set? You are specifically asking for a magic set, hence the "sorcery blast" and your use of "arcane blast". And as @biostem and others have stated, and I am no longer opposed to considering the added power sets, a multi-element set would likely be fine, but not a "Magic Blast" or "Sorcery Blast" or "Arcane Blast". Because magic and sorcery are specifically tied to magic and arcane is not a power effect.

 

Edit: Now if you can explain what a secret blast set, mysterious blast set, or obscure blast set even means that is not the understood use for magic? Then maybe you would have a point.

 

Edited March 12 by Rudra
Edited to correct "mage" to "magic".

[Player2]

  

1 minute ago, biostem said:

And now you're just being pedantic.  We're talking about a world based upon comic book tropes, so in that context, arcane = magic.

 

If YOU choose to conflate the two, I suspect it's more about D&D with it's distinctions between Arcane and Divine magic distinctions, but even if it is used in comic books with regard to magic, that is perfectly acceptable.  The two are not mutually exclusive but are also not synonyms.  And if anyone is being pedantic, I think it's you for trying to insist that your incorrect perception of a word must define it and a powerset proposal that it's attached to.

 

 

  

1 minute ago, biostem said:

The big difference here is that throwing fire or electricity doesn't tell anything about WHERE or HOW a character does so.  I'll ask you again - what makes something "arcane"?  What visual cues would such a set entail?  If your answer is runes, glyphs, magic circles, etc, then you are showing your hand.  It's not the damage type, and it's not a particular set of buffs/debuffs or other such in-set mechanics.

 

 

Incorrect.  The the issue at hand is the hypocrisy of the Beam Rifle powerset.  Lets ignore both Origin and that we actually have Beam Rifle for a moment.  Someone wants a beam weapon and petitions for it.  Why?  Can't what you want be accomplished with Energy Blast?  I mean, that's what it is... energy blast but coming out of a rifle, right?  No.  Beam Rifle is Energy Blast but also has some different mechanics that set it apart from Energy Blast.  Okay, but why did it have to come from a gun?  Why not just re-use Energy and/or other blast set animations?  Because people wanted it to stand apart from Energy Blast... something that COULD, but doesn't necessarily have to, give people an option to wield a tech oriented weapon for a different look and feel from other powersets.

 

And some people want a more magical themed blast set.  But that's too far, because if there's ANY implication of magic --even tangentially-- then the origin must be shoved down peoples' throats.  No.  YOU are perceiving it a certain way and rejecting the notion outright because YOU can't separate the Magic origin from a word that has admittedly been associated with it in other mediums before.  But that association isn't a definition, it's just you being narrowminded about it.

 

When this topic comes up, I try to steer it because of people like you trying to pigeonhole it... yeah, it can be magic but it can also not be magic.  Let's NOT call it magic, and let's offer animations and effects that will work for both people that want magic but also people that do not.  And any effort I make to suggest ways that such a set could appeal to the non-magic-wanting crowd are either ignored or dismissed.

 

So let me spell this out for you:  NEW POWER SET.  SIMILAR TO STUFF WE HAVE, BUT DIFFERENT MECHANICS AND APPEARANCE.

 

Why not just use the existing stuff we have and play make believe to appease your lack of ability to make distinctions between words?  DIFFERENT MECHANICS AND APPEARANCE.

 

  

1 minute ago, biostem said:

I'll ask you again - what makes something "arcane"?  What visual cues would such a set entail?  If your answer is runes, glyphs, magic circles, etc, then you are showing your hand.  It's not the damage type, and it's not a particular set of buffs/debuffs or other such in-set mechanics.

 

And such things could be accomplished by providing the relevant graphical effects.  What would make this set "arcane"?  What's the distinguishing feature(s) of arcane things?

 

 

What makes Beam Rifle special?  Why did we need another Energy Blast set but with a gun?  Why did we need Dual Pistols, another Lethal Damage gun blast set when we already had Assault Rifle?  If your answer is to have the damage type, then I say those powersets were a blatant waste of time and resources.  If it's about the mechanics of the powersets or the desire to have different animations/appearance... then how is that different from people wanting a new powerset that may have similar powers but with different effects?  And why do you feel the need to have it justified by explaining what Arcane means?

 

Again, you seem like you are arguing just to argue and have no real point beyond "I don't like it because it doesn't suit my worldview so I don't want it and that means no one else should have it either."  And that is weaker than any other nonsense arguments that may have been made.

 

 

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

You're obfuscating the question - how would this translate into the game?  What would make this proposed set "arcane", but not fire blasts?  What would make this set, necessarily, come from or otherwise be derived from secret rites or long-lost practices?  Could electrical blast be arcane?  Could radiation blast?  You'll note that we have psychic blasts, but it doesn't mention you have a mutation or that you're of a race that has natural telepathy.  Powersets don't tell you that they come from secret techniques or mysterious corners of the CoH universe, only what they do or what kind of effects they produce.

YOU are trying to make it a question of what the value of a word is to justify shooting down the idea.  I'm done explaining to you because no amount of explanation would satisfy you.  You've made that clear when you stated that it would be like having the Magic origin shoved down your throat.  So go ahead and be wrong like Rudra and PeregrineFalcon.  I'm not going to keep trying to justify something to meet your satisfaction because you are questioning it from a place of being blatantly and wholly wrong.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The literal definition of arcane is secret, mysterious, or obscure. So what is that in game mechanics is what @biostem is asking. How do you present a "secret blast" set, a "mysterious blast" set, or an "obscure blast" set? You are specifically asking for a magic set, hence the "sorcery blast" and your use of "arcane blast". And as @biostem and others have stated, and I am no longer opposed to considering the added power sets, a multi-element set would likely be fine, but not a "Magic Blast" or "Sorcery Blast" or "Arcane Blast". Because magic and sorcery are specifically tied to magic and arcane is not a power effect.

 

Edit: Now if you can explain what a secret blast set, mysterious blast set, or obscure blast set even means that is not the understood use for magic? Then maybe you would have a point.

 

Go away, Rudra.  Nothing you have to say is worth reading.  You contribute nothing useful to the discussion; you just want to dismiss it because you don't like/want it, so I've no interest in trying to justify the definition of a word I've already explained away.  You argue just to argue because you don't want anyone else to have something you don't want.  It's like telling someone they can't have a glass of water because you're not thirsty.

 

[Player2]

26 minutes ago, biostem said:

You're obfuscating the question - how would this translate into the game?  What would make this proposed set "arcane", but not fire blasts?  What would make this set, necessarily, come from or otherwise be derived from secret rites or long-lost practices?  Could electrical blast be arcane?  Could radiation blast?  You'll note that we have psychic blasts, but it doesn't mention you have a mutation or that you're of a race that has natural telepathy.  Powersets don't tell you that they come from secret techniques or mysterious corners of the CoH universe, only what they do or what kind of effects they produce.

How does Beam Rifle translate into the game?  What makes that set "Beam" but not Energy Blast?  Some of the Fire Blast attacks look like beams to me... Radiation Blasts, too.  Even Dark Blast has some dark beams.  What did we need a Beam Rifle for?  And what about the name Beam Rifle informs the player of its damage type or effects?  How does "beam" or "rifle" or the combination of the words tell us about the disintegration effects?  How does "Beam Rifle" do anything but let people know they'll have an Energy Blast that isn't the Energy Blast powerset?