Some things "I" think would be cool additions

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Look past the exterior housing that is the robot - what powers it?  What dictates its behavior?  It could be a magical power source or said robots could simply be vessels to contain an animating spirit of some kind.  You must think in comic book /fictional terms, and not just how things function IRL.

 

I love magitech too

but even saying that

know that any sufficiently advanced technology appears as magic to the unenlightened

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

See my response to grouchybeast

So you want a mixed blast set is all?  Why not just propose that?  Call it elementalist blast or prismatic blast, or something like that.  Magic need not be part of the descriptor or equation...

[Drow2100]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Nightcrawler has to do the exact same thing. He has to teleport to his target, positioning his teleport, and then immediately launch into an attack when he exits his teleport. And if he wants to do a flurry of attacks like he has against some targets in the span of a single panel, then he has to rapidly teleport to his target multiple times in that span of time, positioning himself with every teleport, and launching an attack when he exits the teleport before launching into the next teleport in the sequence. If you want "bamf" animations? Ask for them. However, aside from the "bamf" and visual style of his teleports, you can already make Nightcrawler.

Yes of course. I'm speaking in terms of game mechanics to make it a smoother process. Why click 8 times when you only need to do it once? I don't know if it's doable but an actual "bamf" animation would rock even if it's just for combat teleport!

Edited March 16 by Drow2100

[Drow2100]

Just now, biostem said:

So you want a mixed blast set is all?  Why not just propose that?  Call it elementalist blast or prismatic blast, or something like that.  Magic need not be part of the descriptor or equation...

I DID call it that kind of thing in my op - although I didn't explain it

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

I DID call it that kind of thing in my op - although I didn't explain it

Which would have been fine, except you then went on to explicitly call for a magic set.

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Yes of course. I'm speaking in terms of game mechanics to make it a smoother process. Why click 8 times when you only need to do it once? I don't know if it's doable but an actual "bamf" animation would rock even if it's just for combat teleport!

Because using Combat Teleport with your primary/secondary instead of creating a new primary/secondary that is teleport melee lets a player create a teleport melee character, a teleport range character, a teleport control character, or a teleport support character without having to make each of those with multiple different breakouts for the different possibilities. The game already lets you make a Nightcrawler character without pigeonholing what it means to have an active combat teleporting character.

[PeregrineFalcon]

41 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Maybe people just like to argue for argue sake...

Welcome to the forums, citizen.

 

Yes, you are absolutely correct. For many of us the only reason we're on the forums is that we like to argue about stuff. Don't take it personally. No one's attacking you. We just like to argue about stuff.

 

Now that that's out of the way, I do like some of your ideas. The speedster idea is interesting. My speedster on Homecoming is an MA/SR Scrapper with Super Speed. How would your suggested speedster be different than that?

[CrusaderDroid]

38 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

It could be as simple as making a magic "blaster" with lightning bolts, fireballs, eldritch blast, mirror image, ect - the kind of things they can do in DnD. It could be a controller with buffs, debuffs, control powers. Same as what is available just under a different theme in terms of appearance and animation. I'm sure it's not that difficult for the team

Hi there!

I like the whole magic thing myself, and I'm pondering making my own spin on the thing to try and avoid some of what's happened in this thread and in the prior Arcane Blast thread. Specifically, what was being asked of you there was "what does this do, mechanically speaking"? Mechanics are good! They're the best way to set powersets apart from each other - not visuals. Mechanics also get some people excited for what kind of builds they can put together with it. Without the mechanics, it gets really easy to slip into "well, Fire Blast can just be a Wizard's fireball" - which is also true, so you kinda brick there.

 

I think if I were to do this, I'd probably have all the powers do some sort of different element, and then have each power grant their own buff for maybe 1 minute or 2x their normal recharge timer that increases damage by a small amount and some other stat by a small amount. That way, as you keep cycling through different powers, you get progressively more powerful, and that in turn translates to showing all of your pretty particle effects frequently. Which looks cool!

 

If you can pin down some mechanical starting point, you're already well ahead of the Arcane Blast thread. Give it a try - what kind of thing would this powerset revolve around?

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, CrusaderDroid said:

I think if I were to do this, I'd probably have all the powers do some sort of different element, and then have each power grant their own buff for maybe 1 minute or 2x their normal recharge timer that increases damage by a small amount and some other stat by a small amount. That way, as you keep cycling through different powers, you get progressively more powerful, and that in turn translates to showing all of your pretty particle effects frequently. Which looks cool!

Let's say we stick to the classical 4 elements paradigm.  You have 9 powers in a set.  Now, let's say the T9 is some sort of "all elements combined" type of power, so set that aside for the moment.  That leaves us with 8 powers, which works out to a nice even 2 powers per element setup.  Now, I think it may be too much work to try and implement a specific interaction for each element with each different one, so a simpler approach may be one set of bonuses for using the same element one after the other and different ones for using different ones...

 

Alternatively, have the T9 be of 1 specific element so you can include a generic aim power, (unless you wanted to do a fiery embrace type of thing and have that also be of a particular element). 

[Drow2100]

52 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Because using Combat Teleport with your primary/secondary instead of creating a new primary/secondary that is teleport melee lets a player create a teleport melee character, a teleport range character, a teleport control character, or a teleport support character without having to make each of those with multiple different breakouts for the different possibilities. The game already lets you make a Nightcrawler character without pigeonholing what it means to have an active combat teleporting character.

So what you're saying is that it would be ability bloat? Why have dual pistols, rifle, laser rifle, devices, traps, Arachnos Soliers and munition type epic secondaries then??? Aren't THOSE different versions of the same general thing? It's called "flavor" and I happen to love it 😁

Edited March 16 by Drow2100

[Drow2100]

23 minutes ago, CrusaderDroid said:

Hi there!

I like the whole magic thing myself, and I'm pondering making my own spin on the thing to try and avoid some of what's happened in this thread and in the prior Arcane Blast thread. Specifically, what was being asked of you there was "what does this do, mechanically speaking"? Mechanics are good! They're the best way to set powersets apart from each other - not visuals. Mechanics also get some people excited for what kind of builds they can put together with it. Without the mechanics, it gets really easy to slip into "well, Fire Blast can just be a Wizard's fireball" - which is also true, so you kinda brick there.

 

I think if I were to do this, I'd probably have all the powers do some sort of different element, and then have each power grant their own buff for maybe 1 minute or 2x their normal recharge timer that increases damage by a small amount and some other stat by a small amount. That way, as you keep cycling through different powers, you get progressively more powerful, and that in turn translates to showing all of your pretty particle effects frequently. Which looks cool!

 

If you can pin down some mechanical starting point, you're already well ahead of the Arcane Blast thread. Give it a try - what kind of thing would this powerset revolve around?

Thanks for the heads up. Honestly, I didn't think in terms of drawing up any deep "mechanical detail". I was just going off of an idea. You're idea is pretty nice!

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Why have dual pistols

Dual Pistols uses different animations (due to having two weapons at once) and different mechanics. It also does not use the same abilities as Assault Rifle.

 

15 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

laser rifle,

Laser rifle was created to give Robotics a matching weapon/attack set for the MM to use. Beam rifle was created to give players access to an energy weapon that uses different mechanics than Assault Rifle and Energy Blast.

 

15 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

devices, traps,

Traps was created to have a more villainous version of Devices. The Live devs wanted the villain ATs to be different from the hero ATs, so the villain version of Devices was created. Otherwise, all that changes is how 1 power works and what 2 powers are between them. After proliferation, the differences between Devices and Traps became moot, but they both already existed.

 

15 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Arachnos Soliers

Soldiers of Arachnos and Widows of Arachnos were placeholder VEATs (Villain Epic Archetypes) that the players enjoyed and so became permanent. The difference between Soldiers of Arachnos and munitions sets of any stripe is that like the Kheldians, the Soldiers of Arachnos have multiple build paths within their power sets (without needing  multiple different primaries and secondaries), allowing players to play a variety of Arachnos soldier concepts at once. Their sets also include a wider array of defenses than other sets because of their epic status.

 

15 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Aren't THOSE different versions of the same general thing? It's called "flavor".

Those flavors don't tie a character to a specific origin though. Whereas a Magic Blast or Arcane Blast set does.

 

15 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

If you don't like the idea that is fine, this thread is obviously not for you

If you are telling me to go away, you don't have the right or authority to.

 

Edited March 16 by Rudra
Edited to correct "capability" to "authority".

[Luminara]

27 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

For many of us the only reason we're on the forums is that we like to argue about stuff.

 

If I argue with you, you're right.  If I don't argue with you, you're right.

 

[megaericzero]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Traps was created to have a more villainous version of Devices.

Well that and Devices is part of the manipulation category while Traps is part of support/affinity.

[Drow2100]

This is what my "Nightcrawler" looks like from the game

[Drow2100]

List from "Mythical Blast"

[Drow2100]

Nightcrawler secondary pool

[Drow2100]

Nightcrawler primary pool

[Drow2100]

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If you are telling me to go away, you don't have the right or authority to.

I'm not the one coming into a thread saying that "I'm tired of answering this question" when no one elected you spokesperson. YOU chose to come in here and post. Also, regardless of the reasons any of those were created, they are STILL THE SAME GENERAL CONCEPT which is the point I was making. No one says there can't be a combat teleport for general archetypes but from your example, "why not make a specific type for Nightcrawler DIFFERENT from the base"?

Edited March 16 by Drow2100

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

I'm not the one coming into a thread saying that "I'm tired of answering this question" when no one elected you spokesperson. YOU chose to come in here and post. Also, regardless of the reasons any of those were created, they are STILL THE SAME GENERAL CONCEPT which is the point I was making. No one says there can't be a combat teleport for general archetypes but from your example, "why not make a specific type for Nightcrawler DIFFERENT from the base"?

Then let's try it from a different point of view. New Dawn has not been recognized by NCSoft, the IP owners of CoX, as an official server. Because they are still a pirate server, they have much more leeway in what they can try to get away with. Homecoming has been recognized by NCSoft as official, and that recognition carries specific requirements for Homecoming to meet. One of which is to not steal the IP of other companies like Marvel.

[Drow2100]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Then let's try it from a different point of view. New Dawn has not been recognized by NCSoft, the IP owners of CoX, as an official server. Because they are still a pirate server, they have much more leeway in what they can try to get away with. Homecoming has been recognized by NCSoft as official, and that recognition carries specific requirements for Homecoming to meet. One of which is to not steal the IP of other companies like Marvel.

That makes no sense as every powerset IN here can be said to be "stealing" from marvel or DC. Do YOU know specifically what they can and can't do? Were YOU there when they signed the agreement? Did they report to YOU??? No - talk to the hand ✋

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

That makes no sense as every powerset IN here can be said to be "stealing" from marvel or DC. Do YOU know specifically what they can and can't do? Were YOU there when they signed the agreement? Did they report to YOU??? No - talk to the hand ✋

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Edit: That was copied directly from the Terms of Service everyone agrees to in order to play this game. If they aren't going to defend players from copyright infringement lawsuits, why would they open themselves up to it themselves?

Edited March 16 by Rudra

[CrusaderDroid]

@RudraI'm confused as to what your goal is here. Do you want @Drow2100to make better contributions to the forums, or do you just want them to stop posting, period? If it's the former, I tried to outline some of the stuff that I thought was a pain point with you in my own post, so that the next time Drow2100 has an idea, they're better equipped to pitch it. It might help to de-escalate if you explain what exactly you're trying to do here.

1 hour ago, Drow2100 said:

So what you're saying is that it would be ability bloat? Why have dual pistols, rifle, laser rifle, devices, traps, Arachnos Soliers and munition type epic secondaries then??? Aren't THOSE different versions of the same general thing? It's called "flavor" and I happen to love it

Actually, no! That's why the mechanics matter. Assault Rifle, Dual Pistols, and Beam Rifle could have all been reskins of each other, but instead they've all got different mechanics behind them that make them stand out - Dual Pistols' ammo switching and Beam Rifle's Disintegrating mechanics being particular standouts. Even if they all looked like a generic gun, the powers would have been meaningfully different enough that we could have decisions made based on how they play. That's a good thing.

 

Flavor is great. It can't carry a powerset though. Since they're basically the equivalent of classes or talent trees or specs or what have you in other MMOs, they need to be meaningfully distinct from all other sets so there's a good reason to pick them and not relegate them to a particle of some other powerset. I don't think people are opposed to, say, Teleport Melee, but you'd need to pitch a really cool hook to get people to seriously think about it instead of rightfully saying "just use Combat Teleport". Without that pitch, there's nothing to get anyone invested in it, even if it can be a really cool idea.

 

The good news is you don't need that much to stand out. Ammo switching and Disintegrating were good enough to carry those powersets. Come up with a sweet core mechanic and you're already halfway there.

[Burk]

8 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

a robot mastermind RPing as magic might be stretching the limits of credibility here. lol

 

I beg to differ, considering that this game has a low level "robot" faction, the Clockwork, that turns out to just be metal pieces telekinetically moved by an unstable psychic. No reason why a robot mastermind couldn't be a mage doing something similar.

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, CrusaderDroid said:

@RudraI'm confused as to what your goal is here. Do you want @Drow2100to make better contributions to the forums, or do you just want them to stop posting, period? If it's the former, I tried to outline some of the stuff that I thought was a pain point with you in my own post, so that the next time Drow2100 has an idea, they're better equipped to pitch it. It might help to de-escalate if you explain what exactly you're trying to do here.

What I am trying to do, in so far as the Nightcrawler part goes, is point out that players can already make Nightcrawler style characters and that if Homecoming were to make a Nightcrawler power set, or any other power set that was obviously an attempt to clone the IP of another company, it just can't happen. There are multiple reasons why the game's power sets are as generically named (as a set and for powers) as they are. First, it keeps the provided power sets as open to as many player concepts as possible, and second because it avoids putting (at the time) NCSoft and (now) Homecoming in the line of fire of other companies like Marvel and DC. There is a balancing act that must be done to provide as much content (in this case of powers and power sets) as possible to the player base without putting the game and its developers in legal jeopardy.

 

When it comes to power sets (and their attached powers' names), I will always push for as generic an approach as possible for the above stated reasons as well.