Villains seem to have it both ways, why can't we?

[temnix]

Speaking generally, Archetypes available to players fall in one of the two categories: tough but primitive and interesting but wimpy. Close-combat cannonballs like Scrappers and Tankers charge into enemies and bash them repeatedly, while Controllers, Dominators etc. stay well away, because they break like china, and apply a wide variety of powers. There are also some in-between types: Sentinels, for example, are tougher than Blasters at the expense and by dint of having merely protective powers for the secondary set. Many villains, on the other hand, manage to be dangerous both up close and at range. My best example and one of the favorite groups to fight are the Outcasts. Their Bricks, for instance, can wallop the player with stone fists, catch him in a granite hold or throw boulders at them, nor do they have poor hit points as a trade-off. Shockers deliver nasty punches, throw lightning, paralyze and fly around to boot. So why do players have to choose between, in fantasy game terms, the strong but predictable warrior and the resourceful but anemic wizard, and when it is something in-between, why must balance is achieved by nerfing both sides down to a meh?

 

True, pinning characters to such particular roles ensures that most of them need complementary team mates and that after their current Archetype with its severe limitations they will want to try an Archetype with DIFFERENT severe limitatons (or run off to start one concurrently, to rest from turning on the same tactical carousel). But that is like giving some people only legs, others only arms, yet others only the head. Contrary to body organs or cells, we are not specialized details in a common constitution but entities with individual destinies who can display now one quality, now another as we develop through life's adventure. Both for role-playing and for keeping the game process entertaining (only stealth and flight add variety to the repetition) require a more flexible Archetype, one that fights quite well in melee but can act at a distance and has tricks up his sleeve.

 

So let him be called simply Fighter or maybe Man-At-Arms. Give him the damage of the Tanker and the hit points of the Scrapper, a couple of ranged attacks available before long, a couple of holds or disorients. These should probably all be single-target or perhaps one multiple-target power may be included. Even a pet somewhere mid-course would not be out of place.

[Rudra]

Because unlike NPC enemies, we as players have to have our ATs balanced around themes to keep the game interesting and not just let everyone play a tank-mage like they supposedly were back in the alpha state of the game. Also, depending on how you build your characters, you can already achieve the same things the Outcasts and other factions do. Sloth the IO sets (and/or procs) that boost your damage resist, and you're most fragile AT because more durable. Especially if you also slot for HP and regeneration rate. Pick up ranged attacks or melee attacks from your APPs, and your Scrappers, Stalkers, Tankers, and Brutes can freely cycle between range and melee combat. And with some procs, any of your attacks can be holds, immobs, sleeps, and stuns.

 

So in short, if you want to play the utility character? Build for it. Blasters and Dominators for instance are excellent ATs to achieve your goal.

[megaericzero]

1 hour ago, temnix said:

Give him the damage of the Tanker and the hit points of the Scrapper, a couple of ranged attacks available before long, a couple of holds or disorients. These should probably all be single-target or perhaps one multiple-target power may be included. Even a pet somewhere mid-course would not be out of place.

Might I introduce you to Peacebringers and Warshades?

 

Granted they have less hit points than a Scrapper.

[Psi-bolt]

2 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Might I introduce you to Peacebringers and Warshades?

 

Granted they have less hit points than a Scrapper.

 

Or Soldiers of Arachnos who get the added benefit of always available mez protection.

[biostem]

18 hours ago, temnix said:

My best example and one of the favorite groups to fight are the Outcasts.

And how many attacks do they have at their disposal?  Any inspirations or APPs/PPPs?  Roll any AT, and when you factor those in, as well as IO set bonuses, (let's ignore Incarnates for now), and there's no way I'd trade in having 2-3 powers from different ATs for the entire sets I get as a player.  

Edited April 7 by biostem

[Haijinx]

/Jranger was an Outcast too. 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

The IO system allows for a greater variety of builds for each AT

wanna softcap defense? can be done

wanna cap resists? can also be done

wanna go all in on damage? possible

wantsuperfastrecharge? doable

 

but no AT can have it all

the fun of a game is finding the right balance between

boringly easy & frustratingly annoying

obviously nobody likes dying

but its the threat of death

that makes you feel alive

Its why humans ride roller coasters, and sky dive, swim with sharks, and adopt cats.

a GG can simulate that rush you feel.

 

Finally it isn't terribly difficult to build a blaster with softcapped defenses

I believe they are called blappers or something?

they do great damage both in melee and ranged and have decent survivability 

 

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

The IO system allows for a greater variety of builds for each AT

wanna softcap defense? can be done

wanna cap resists? can also be done

wanna go all in on damage? possible

wantsuperfastrecharge? doable

 

but no AT can have it all

the fun of a game is finding the right balance between

boringly easy & frustratingly annoying

obviously nobody likes dying

but its the threat of death

that makes you feel alive

Its why humans ride roller coasters, and sky dive, swim with sharks, and adopt cats.

a GG can simulate that rush you feel.

 

Finally it isn't terribly difficult to build a blaster with softcapped defenses

I believe they are called blappers or something?

they do great damage both in melee and ranged and have decent survivability 

 

No, a Blapper is a Blaster that tends to use their melee attacks like they are Scrappers. You're thinking of survivable Blappers. 😊

[gabrilend]

Quote

True, pinning characters to such particular roles ensures that most of them need complementary team mates...

 

I think this is the reason here.

 

It's a good thing that players are encouraged to group up. This is a team-based game, at it's heart, and the mechanics favor playing on a team for a reason. I think it's a good thing that the archetypes are so specialized.

[Doomguide2005]

Huh?

Clearly you're playing a different game than I am.

[Haijinx]

17 hours ago, gabrilend said:

 

I think this is the reason here.

 

It's a good thing that players are encouraged to group up. This is a team-based game, at it's heart, and the mechanics favor playing on a team for a reason. I think it's a good thing that the archetypes are so specialized.

May explain part of the issues modern MMOs have becoming MMOs instead of just solo games.