Thunderbolts* (MCU)

[battlewraith]

Nobody in my family wanted to see this movie. After watching a lot of reviews and reading people's reactions to it, I got mildly interested. I talked my wife and older son into going and we all liked it. There was a fairly decent crowd and they seemed to like it. As we were leaving, I could hear people telling each other that they liked it. It was a lot more entertaining than I thought it would be. 

 

[ZacKing]

$76 million opening in the US is below CA: BNW.  Predictions are this film is going to follow the same pattern and drop off the cliff week 2.  Reviews I've read and heard put this in the "ok" to "meh" category.  Not "The Marvels" horrible, but nothing special either. 

[BrandX]

8 hours ago, ZacKing said:

$76 million opening in the US is below CA: BNW.  Predictions are this film is going to follow the same pattern and drop off the cliff week 2.  Reviews I've read and heard put this in the "ok" to "meh" category.  Not "The Marvels" horrible, but nothing special either. 

 

I'm reading much more than "meh" on the reviews I've read/heard.

 

And some of the bad reviews really seem to be "Well, I'm anti Disney/America right now..."

 

I do believe they all agree it could've used a bit more action.  That seems to be a bit of a constant.

[battlewraith]

17 minutes ago, BrandX said:

I do believe they all agree it could've used a bit more action.  That seems to be a bit of a constant.

 

There's action in this film, but imo it's almost like an inversion of a typical action film where you have skimpy characterizations inbetween big action setpieces. 

This movie was about characterization and the action was really just there to move things along. Which worked because the actors gave really solid performances and made these characters relatable and likeable. 

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

 

There's action in this film, but imo it's almost like an inversion of a typical action film where you have skimpy characterizations inbetween big action setpieces. 

This movie was about characterization and the action was really just there to move things along. Which worked because the actors gave really solid performances and made these characters relatable and likeable. 

 

I'm not thinking they were saying do without that.  I think they were thinking add another fight scene?

[ZacKing]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

I'm reading much more than "meh" on the reviews I've read/heard.

 

And some of the bad reviews really seem to be "Well, I'm anti Disney/America right now..."

 

I do believe they all agree it could've used a bit more action.  That seems to be a bit of a constant.

 

Yeah, there are shills on either side of the spectrum in the movie review business.  People I know who have similar tastes to mine who saw it said it was ok.  Nothing spectacular, but nothing like the Marvels.  That's better than expected for the turds Marvel has been churning out.  This one might actually recoup its budget. 

[battlewraith]

13 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I'm not thinking they were saying do without that.  I think they were thinking add another fight scene?

There are like 6 fight scenes in the movie. Then there is a humorous team building scene, a scene where Bob tries to help them escape soldiers, and a kind of metaphorical face-down-your-demons scene where they help Bob. I don't think it was lacking action. I think that issue might be that the fight scenes probably come across as less consequential in the scheme of things.

 

The characters are very upfront about being underpowered and ill-equipped to deal with the situation. 

[Ringo]

Saw it today!  Absolutely loved it except for one character death.  I wouldn't say it wowed me while I was watching it, but afterwords I am actually very impressed. For a story that I already knew what the basic beats were going to be, I never felt bored or even like I truly knew what would happen next.  This thing had me laughing a lot (the "It's my dad" scene was perfect) even in a movie with a ton of dark themes.  As someone who suffers from extreme depression, I found this movie both handled its themes with care and also didn't actually submerge into the darkness for too long.  That is a hard line to walk, and I absolutely didn't expect it to work so well.

 

With the exception of Black Widow and Shang-Chi I have disliked to outright hated everything in the MCU post Thor Ragnarok.  I liked Thunderbolts.  A lot.  And actually had fun discussing future MCU possibilities.

 

What a world!

[Ringo]

Oh also the fact that this Thunderbolts team is made up of people that almost exclusively shoots/punches/kills their enemies and none of those skills are useful?  Amazing

 

I want to see John Walker have to process his toxic masculinity in order to save the universe, thank you!

[battlewraith]

12 minutes ago, Ringo said:

I want to see John Walker have to process his toxic masculinity in order to save the universe, thank you!

 

Wyatt Russel as John Walker seems like 20% Snake Plissken mixed with 35% Jack Burton.

[Ringo]

Wyatt Russell has so much charisma that he has to say something every 30 seconds that reminds you that John Walker is an asshole and it's great

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Finally got round to seeing it today - and was a whole lot of fun, if not the top rank of movies - probably around the original Ant-Man, definitely a return to form. Decent laughs, some pretty solid action, and shot in a very grounded way (right up till the big dark twist.) Great performances from JL-D, Stan, and especially Harbour and The Pugh. And had something quite decent to say at its core.

Edited Monday at 05:25 PM by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[GM Crumpet]

It was OK. I think this would have been a great Disney+ show with the themes it was exploring. They touched on some deep stuff, and Elenya and Bob were great, but it would have benefitted with a 6 episode story to flesh it out better. Moon Knight worked well because it gave the show time to breath and explore the MPD of the main character. I did like all the characters though. It was nice Walker was sympathetic and relatable rather than being the butt of the joke all the time.  

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

6 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

It was nice Walker was sympathetic and relatable rather than being the butt of the joke all the time.

...just most of it. And still not exactly someone you'd want to relate to, but he is more than capable - and there is still a spark of good left in him.

Alexei's also a pain in the backside, but the relentless, dog-like enthusiasm is infectious. And out of the lot of them, probably the best-adjusted.

 

For those who haven't seen it yet and aren't intending to, here are the tail stings:

Spoiler

MID-CREDS:

Alexei finally gets his face on the Wheaties box. And the toy. Oddly, people seem very unimpressed.

But he's happy. Throwaway but funny.

 

POST-CREDS: 

• Time jump roughly a year. The New Avengers - and Bob - are now operating out of Avengers Tower.
• They're having a rough time trying to convince the world they can handle the same job the Avengers did. Not to mention themselves.
• Well, apart from Alexei, who's still loving life. And trying to rewrite the branding. And get sponsors.
• They're also at odds with Sam/Cap, who is very annoyed at the legacy being hijacked and is trying to copyright Avengers. Not on speaking terms with Bucky.
• Bob is perfectly happy and chill not being the Sentry (or the Void) and a fairly affable flatmate.
• Something weird is happening in outer space which has been going on for a while.
• We end with the team getting an alert to an extra-dimensional craft...
• ...a very pretty, shiny, retro-futuristic rocket with a big damn 4 on the side.
• Fade to black...
• THE NEW AVENGERS...
• ...AND BOB... 
• ...WILL RETURN.

 

Edited Monday at 02:23 PM by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

It was OK. I think this would have been a great Disney+ show with the themes it was exploring. They touched on some deep stuff, and Elenya and Bob were great, but it would have benefitted with a 6 episode story to flesh it out better. Moon Knight worked well because it gave the show time to breath and explore the MPD of the main character. I did like all the characters though. It was nice Walker was sympathetic and relatable rather than being the butt of the joke all the time.  

 

The problem with making it a Disney+ series is that people quit whining that Disney+ series are homework. 😕

 

Personally, I'm baffled how they go about streaming/binging every other show, but some how, those gosh darn Disney+ shows are hard homework.

[ZacKing]

So box office results for the second weekend fell off the usual cliff and are down close to 45% from opening weekend.  Despite decent reviews, the box office is still tracking behind CA:  BNW, which was a flop.  Mates that have seen it mostly said it was ok, but nothing special, which is better than the last few MCU films.  I'll wait for it on D+. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Global total was down 55%. Not good.

But that said, it was still US domestic #1 and international #1, ahead of Sinners. So not a great week at the flicks generally.

 

Hollyweird accounting note: CA:BNW and Thunderbolts* both have a listed $180m budget.

In theory, that means technical breakeven (2.5x) is $450m. CA:BNW tapped out at $415m. Thunderbolts should get there, maybe a little less, maybe a little more.

However, the back talk says that this movie's budget is the real one, and CA:BNW's real budget is almost double that with the reshoots and extra CGI.

 

As to where that budget went: it's a lot more evident in this flick that this crew like practical FX. Substantially cheaper - other than the insurance on Pugh doing a decelerator drop herself - and on an IMAX-size screen, they LOOK better.

 

Edited Monday at 05:24 PM by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[biostem]

I saw it in the theater last weekend;  It was entertaining, but nothing groundbreaking.

 

Spoiler

I thought Sentry was handled interestingly;  Once he actually uses his powers it's pretty impressive, but the introduction of the character felt like they were really forcing his "Look at this goofy guy!  Don't you just wanna give him a big ole hug!?  He's tooootally just a victim of circumstance and couldn't poooooossibly have any underlying issues or motives!  Now, go ahead and trust him"...

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

I think Mel the assistant kept hammering on that theme a bit...

Spoiler

With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibilty.

And A Need For Great Stability.

 

Steve was chosen to be the prototype Super Soldier not because he was strong, but because he was smart, determined, kind, and altruistic to the point of diving on a supposedly live grenade. He was the ideal person to take on that role and use his powers wisely. (In the What If comics/series, Super-Peg might not have been the original Chosen One, but worked to prove herself worthy.)

 

Bob was first a dropout, then a disposable lab rat in a deeply unethical and unwise experiment, who just happened to get "lucky". He would have been absolutely unprepared for what Valentina thrust upon him, even without his own inner darkness gaining sentience. Sure, he isn't a perfectly nice person, but in a room full of pro assassins, he's just a lil' goofy goober.

 

Thinking about it, it put me in mind of the regular stories of lottery winners who find it wrecks their lives. We might all dream of having phenomenal cosmic power or a stack of money, but that doesn't fundamentally change who we are. Only we can do that - and it helps to have friends who understand and back us up.

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:00 AM by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[PeregrineFalcon]

"If people are still living in New York City at this point, they have no sense of self-preservation."