Does Dark Regeneration need a balance pass?

[Rudra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:18 AM, A.I.D.A. said:

 

That just means you have a bad build.

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If the build works, then it isn't a bad build.

[Videra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:17 AM, Rudra said:

 

I disagree. I have it on my Dark/Dark Scrapper and I leave it on most times. Yes, Dark Armor is END heavy and I wish it wasn't, but it does work for me. (Edit: Then again, I'm used to running the set from before Fitness became inherent.)

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You have a bad build, Gamer. Dunno what to tell you. No good Dark Armor build has ever included Cloak of Fear.

[Rudra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:18 AM, Indystruck said:

It costs more end than Focused Accuracy on a set that has a power that costs 33 end that you want to be casting fairly often.

 

source: i have several dark armor tanker/scrapper/stalkers

 

it mezzes the least problematic enemy type to immediately delete.

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  On 4/16/2024 at 12:18 AM, ScarySai said:

I promise you, your scrapper with cloak of fear isn't doing a single thing my brute without OG or cloak of fear can't.

 

I don't understand why people defend terrible powers. I really don't. We both benefit from a buff.

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Like I said, I admit the set is extremely END heavy. All I'm arguing in this case is that -5% ToHit debuff is not negligible.

[A.I.D.A.]

It's absolutely negligible. Dark Armor is a resist set. If you crunch purples, you're softcapped and it doesn't matter, if you don't crunch purples, you're so far from softcap that it also doesn't matter.

[macskull]

How has no one pointed out that Cloak of Fear also has 0.67x base accuracy and ends up with an out of the box 50% chance to hit an even-con enemy?

[Videra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:26 AM, macskull said:

How has no one pointed out that Cloak of Fear also has 0.67x base accuracy and ends up with an out of the box 50% chance to hit an even-con enemy?

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Good point, lol.

[FupDup]

I has an idea.

 

Let's nerf Cloak of Fear by like 50% to increase the "power budget" of the set so we can do good things with the other powers (assuming we don't trust the devs to only give a slight heal reduction to Dark Regen instead of gutting it like a fish). Totes balanced. 

Edited April 16, 2024 by FupDup

[macskull]

Oh, and more on Cloak of Fear:

 

On top of it being an endurance hog in an already endurance-heavy set, it has a counterproductive mez type (getting hit with the damage aura after Cloak of Fear means the enemy gets to attack you even if they're terrorized) and a five second activate period. Sure, there's a small tohit debuff in there but that's only going to trigger once every 5 seconds so you might actually defeat a pack of enemies before it even has a chance to affect them.

[Doomrider]

-5% to-hit would be worthless even without the heavy end cost and small melee radius. 

Poor base accuracy
Heavy end drain
small radius
10 target cap
only affects minions
tick rate doesnt alowl it stack with itself.
CoF is garbage.

Back to the OP, Dark Regen does not really need a buff but im sure the heal could be adjusted. and the endurance cost reduced and it would still be potent.
The other tools in the set need work tho.... sooo maybe?
Of all the things in this game that need attention, this aint really near the top of the list tho. Maybe eventually.

Edited April 16, 2024 by Doomrider
Mac.

[macskull]

Dunno if anyone read the OP past the topic title but OP is actually asking for a buff to Dark Regen...

 

EDIT: It's too bad that Dark Regen is somehow strangely considered to be too good by the powers devs and would probably be the first power in the set to get obliterated if Dark Armor ever got reworked.

Edited April 16, 2024 by macskull

[Indystruck]

Yeah asking for it to do less end will just get it whapped with the number go down stick and y'know

 

we don't wanna risk it.

[Rudra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:30 AM, macskull said:

Oh, and more on Cloak of Fear:

 

On top of it being an endurance hog in an already endurance-heavy set, it has a counterproductive mez type (getting hit with the damage aura after Cloak of Fear means the enemy gets to attack you even if they're terrorized) and a five second activate period. Sure, there's a small tohit debuff in there but that's only going to trigger once every 5 seconds so you might actually defeat a pack of enemies before it even has a chance to affect them.

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Where are you getting the pulses from? Even in game I see no mention of pulses for the ToHit debuff from Cloak of Fear. Just that it is applied after 0.5 seconds from power activation in CoD.

 

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:35 AM, Doomrider said:

-5% to-hit would be worthless even without the heavy end cost and small melee radius. 

Poor base accuracy
Heavy end drain
small radius
10 target cap
only affects minions
tick rate doesnt alowl it stack with itself.
CoF is garbage.

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And where are you getting your information from? Yes, the terrorized effect only affects lieutenants and minions, but the ToHit debuff affects everything in range.

[Videra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:39 AM, Indystruck said:

Yeah asking for it to do less end will just get it whapped with the number go down stick and y'know

 

we don't wanna risk it.

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Echoing this. I came at my initial post the way I did because I don't want them to adjust any armor sets, frankly, after what they did to butcher Fire Armor. Sorry to Seraphim, by the way.

[A.I.D.A.]

Yep. We'd rather deal with the end management than see it get nerfed in more meaningful ways to "compensate," based on some really flawed concepts in the heads of some extremely flawed devs.

[ScarySai]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:39 AM, macskull said:

Dunno if anyone read the OP past the topic title but OP is actually asking for a buff to Dark Regen...

 

EDIT: It's too bad that Dark Regen is somehow strangely considered to be too good by the powers devs and would probably be the first power in the set to get obliterated if Dark Armor ever got reworked.

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This is why the focus of my reply was what I've heard from CPH. Simply a non-starter for arbitrary reasons.

[macskull]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:40 AM, Rudra said:

Where are you getting the pulses from? Even in game I see no mention of pulses for the ToHit debuff from Cloak of Fear. Just that it is applied after 0.5 seconds from power activation in CoD.

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The "animation time before effect" just means that when I toggle on Cloak of Fear, its effects can start to happen 0.5 seconds into the 1.17 second activation. For determining how the power actually works you need to look at the "activate period," which is 5 seconds. That means once the power is toggled on it only ticks once every 5 seconds. If you jump into a mob at 5.000001 seconds, nothing from the power will affect them at all until you get to 10 seconds.

[Doomrider]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:40 AM, Rudra said:

And where are you getting your information from? Yes, the terrorized effect only affects lieutenants and minions, but the ToHit debuff affects everything in range.

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What part of my statement you might think is incorrect, is irrelevant. I'm not here to play teacher. Go look it up. 
I said my piece, now back to the OP.

[Rudra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:43 AM, macskull said:

The "animation time before effect" just means that when I toggle on Cloak of Fear, its effects can start to happen 0.5 seconds into the 1.17 second activation. For determining how the power actually works you need to look at the "activate period," which is 5 seconds. That means once the power is toggled on it only ticks once every 5 seconds. If you jump into a mob at 5.000001 seconds, nothing from the power will affect them at all until you get to 10 seconds.

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Okay, thanks. Then yeah, I agree that needs to be improved. (And prefereably the END cost too.)

[Rudra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 12:45 AM, Doomrider said:

What part of my statement you might think is incorrect, is irrelevant. I'm not here to play teacher. Go look it up. 
I said my piece, now back to the OP.

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Your statement, as I read it, says that the ToHit debuff only affects minions. It does not. It affects everything in its radius.

[FupDup]

In this particular example, most debuffs against a +5 enemy will have their strength reduced to just 0.30 of their standard strength. So that 5% (unenhanced) Cloak of Fear gets bumped down to just 1.5%. 

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch

Edited April 16, 2024 by FupDup

[GM Tock]

Removed some posts already, as you were.

[ThatGuyCDude]

If it's overhealing on average at 6 targets out of 10, wouldn't the reasonable change to balance be to reduce its healing and its endurance cost equally by 33%?  So a baseline of 375 HP per target for 22.5 END?  It looks like an even exchange, but it'd be a net buff because the HP gain is otherwise wasted and thus the extra END is wasted too.

I'd consider suggesting something more exotic like increasing Max HP per target hit (as a counter to Oppressive Gloom's -Max HP), but that's just hitting a different cap, isn't it?

[Rudra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 1:08 AM, FupDup said:

In this particular example, most debuffs against a +5 enemy will have their strength reduced to just 0.30 of their standard strength. So that 5% (unenhanced) Cloak of Fear gets bumped down to just 1.5%. 

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch

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Oh. My mistake. Every time I read purple patch, I think purple triangles of doom. I knew enemies got more resistant to effects as they leveled higher than the player's character, but I thought it reduced the duration of debuffs, not reduce the power of debuffs. I sit corrected. Thanks.

[Videra]

  On 4/16/2024 at 2:16 AM, ThatGuyCDude said:

If it's overhealing on average at 6 targets out of 10, wouldn't the reasonable change to balance be to reduce its healing and its endurance cost equally by 33%?  So a baseline of 375 HP per target for 22.5 END?  It looks like an even exchange, but it'd be a net buff because the HP gain is otherwise wasted and thus the extra END is wasted too.

I'd consider suggesting something more exotic like increasing Max HP per target hit (as a counter to Oppressive Gloom's -Max HP), but that's just hitting a different cap, isn't it?

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The Powers Devs are not interested in making reasonable balance changes to armor. Exhibit A: Fire Armor being gutted.

[SeraphimKensai]

Wow this really took off with an interesting discussion while I was putting the toddler to sleep and I log in do a hami raid and one ITF and poof 3 pages.