Heroic Patron Pools

[TheMoncrief]

I think it would be extremely cool if there were Heroic patrons for whom a blueside character could run an arc to earn some teachings and gain access to patron pools of their own. I don't mind the ancillary pools being available to everybody, and sure, heroes can switch alignment to grab a villainous patron, but I think it would just *FEEL* cooler if I could get some pointers on some specific ways to manipulate radiation from Positron or learn about some of Manticore's hold-out gadgets or whatever. And, of course, Villains should be able to switch sides and get access to Heroic Patrons just the way Heroes can do now.

[biostem]

IIRC, the original ATs were kind of designed around the signature heroes, with their APPs being added to kind of give them access to powers they couldn't normally get, whereas the villain ATs had their PPPs specifically designed around each of Reclues's lieutenants.  Further, some signature powers, like Statesman's lightning, are actually Incarnate powers.  What do you envision these proposed "Heroic Patron Power Pools" looking like, and which specific characters would they be based off of?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I would love there to be blue side epp quests

[TheMoncrief]

23 hours ago, biostem said:

IIRC, the original ATs were kind of designed around the signature heroes, with their APPs being added to kind of give them access to powers they couldn't normally get, whereas the villain ATs had their PPPs specifically designed around each of Reclues's lieutenants.  Further, some signature powers, like Statesman's lightning, are actually Incarnate powers.  What do you envision these proposed "Heroic Patron Power Pools" looking like, and which specific characters would they be based off of?

 

If you look at the patron power pools, they are actually quite consistent, with a specific "type" of power at each rank of the pool that is shared by each AT. That is, for example, the first power of every patron pool for VEATS is a single target ranged attack, the 2nd is an AoE Immobilize, the 3rd is an AoE damaging attack, and the 5th is a pet. The 4th has some variation, but not all that much. Thus, the powers of heroic patron power pools would follow the same pattern, just a different flavor. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have some differences, just as you find differences in the villainous patron pools - type of damage, shape of AoE's, defense vs. resistance for armors and the specific damage types defended against or resisted, and so on. While tedious, copying the basic templates for all the blue patron pools requires creativity in the details, but not really at the level of a suggestion thread.

 

The harder question is which heroes should be available as patrons. They should be heroes who either have power that can be in part shared, or have subordinates whose specific training can be shared. They should also be major heroes - I don't think anybody is going to be happy with Twinshot or No Mind as their patron. Positron is the obvious choice for a more technology based patron. Manticore for a patron favoring more intense specialized training. Perhaps the Woodsman might help heroes attune themselves with the forces of nature to gain access to some of its great power. There are plenty of options, those are three who stand out to me. But my suggestion is not that my specific suggestions be taken, but that the concept of heroic patron power pools be explored.

[biostem]

22 minutes ago, TheMoncrief said:

The harder question is which heroes should be available as patrons.

I would do:

 

Ms. Liberty - have her patron powers be somewhat tied with Longbow

Manticore - connected with Wyvern

Blue Steel - PPD

Positron - I'm not sure which heroic faction his pet would be drawn from, (maybe the PPD influence could be split with Blue Steel, where Positron gets the power armor or robotic units and Blue Steel would get awakened, psi-division, or just some beefed up plain clothes units.

 

Beyond the group affiliations mentioned above, I think the types of powers they'd grant would be pretty straightforward, (except for Ms. Liberty):

 

Manticore:  Archery/Trick Arrow, perhaps with street justice melee attacks included, where needed, and probably super reflexes or maybe willpower armor powers.

Blue Steel:  I'd give his pool pistol and war mace attacks, with shield defense armors.

Positron:  radiation blasts, melee attacks, armors, etc.

 

For Ms. Liberty, I'd have her pool consist of martial arts melee attacks, invulnerability armors, and a few electrical blasts as needed.

 

EDIT:  Thinking on this further, it would be cool to have Valkyrie as one of the patrons, then we could get her spear throw and maybe an animated sword pet, (yeah I know technically it's battle Maiden that had those, but w/e they're cool!).  Also, Infernal would be an easy one to find powers for. 

Edited May 2 by biostem

[Ian Turner]

 

I had thoughts on this from back in Live, and found something from those days (the level requirements have obviously changed since then, since Epic powers are now available at level 35, and there are more options than the four I had listed back then);

 

Patron - Manticore

 

Tanker - Artillerist - Entangling Arrow (41), Ice Arrow (41), Flame Arrow (44, must have one previous power), Explosive Arrow (47, must have two previous powers)

 

Scrapper - Sharpshooter - Entangling Arrow (41), Flash Arrow (41), Aimed Arrow (44, must have one previous power), Fistful of Arrows (47, must have two previous powers)

 

Blaster - Stuntshooter - Body Armor (41), Entangling Arrow (41), Ice Arrow (44, must have one previous power), Poison Gas Arrow (47, must have two previous powers)

 

Controller - Bowman - Aimed Shot (41), Fistful of Arrows (41), Body Armor (44, must have one previous power), Exodus# (47, must have two previous powers)

 

Defender - Survivalist - Thunder Kick (41), Caltrops (41), Exodus# (44, must have one previous power), Reinforcements$ ($47, must have two previous powers).

 

#Exodus allows the user to 'hack' into the ParagonCity emergency medical system to evacuate an area quickly. Click, very long recharge, immediately teleports the user to the nearest hospital.  A 'get out of jail' free card to be used to avoid an impending defeat.  Free trip to the hospital, without the debt!

 

$Reinforcements calls up a pair of Wyvern operatives who admire the example set by Manticore, and are willing to assist those who also work with him.  Click, very long recharge. They are one level less than the summoning character, and remain for 2 to 4 minutes, using Hover-packs to get around and having the Snap Shot and Aimed Shot maneuvers with their longbows.  They also have a Snap Kick equivalent to Brawl for those who get too close.

 

 

Design notes; Looking at the various pre-existing Epic Pools for the Heroes, I tried to follow any pre-existing themes, while making sure not to include any powers that the AT already could access through Primary or Secondary Pools.

 

The Manticore Tanker Patron Pool, for example, is almost identical to the Arctic, Earth or Pyre Mastery Epic Pools.  One single-target ranged DMG/Immobilize, one single-target ranged DMG/Hold, one single-target ranged moderate DMG and one ranged AoE DMG.

 

Some ended up fairly tricky, with the Defender being the trickiest of the lot, since a Defender can have both Archery *and* Trick Arrow, which covers much of Manticore's 'theme.'

 

As with Black Scorpion, of the Villain Patrons, those who end up working alongside Manticore will be weapon-centric (in this case, a bow, instead of a mace), but Sister Psyche (Mind/FF), Synapse (Elec/Elec) and Positron (Rad/Rad) will definitely *not* be weapon-centric!

 

[biostem]

15 hours ago, Ian Turner said:

I had thoughts on this

Just as an FYI, the APPs/PPPs have 5 powers in each...

[FupDup]

For heroes, I would refer to them as "Sponsor" pools rather than patron. I think that feels more heroic I guess. 

[Chris24601]

For me, the first caveat is that I want the Patron access concept (Sicorro goes Rogue and offers Patron access to rogues and heroes who do his arc, Manticore goes vigilante and offers Patron access to vigilantes and villains who want the power without the Arachnos patron).

 

I’d lean towards something similar for that with hero patrons. Have four genuine patrons, then some sort of Redside “steal their powers” arc to grant them for villains.

 

One thing I would consider though is instead of the Freedom Phalanx; use the original Single Origin Enhancement vendors (Serafina, Holsten Armitage, Agent Six, Mark IV, and Penny Preston) and maybe expand upon the missions they already have as the way to unlock Patron Pools based on the origins.

 

Then have Red Widow as a Redside contact working on a project for Lord Recluse (as part of or follow up to The Web from MLTF) about stealing Origin powers as the way for Redsiders to unlock the pools.

 

For the origin pools, I’d look at ones to supplement the origin-based Utility Pools… indeed, maybe that could even be the theme of the next issue’s pages…

 

Finish out the Origin Utility Pools. Add hero/vigilante access to the Patron pools via Scirocco and Manticore. Add Heroic “Patron” pools and Redside access to them.

 

[TheMoncrief]

An interesting thought from Biostem is that one common thing all the patrons have in common is that they all lead distinctive followers - in the cases of the patrons, specialized troops within Arachnos - they can send to assist the player who takes that patron pool, which is why the patron pools in many cases include pets, while AFAIK, none of the ancillary pools include pets.

 

With that in mind, it might be worth considering which groups of distinctive heroic NPC groups might be involved and find heroic patrons to represent them. For example, the Midnight Squad, the Paragon Police Department, Freedom Corps, Wyvern, the Legacy Chain, or Longbow. We could work backward from the organizations to find which, if any, potential heroic patron might represent each of the selected organizations. Manticore would obviously represent Wyvern, Numina could represent the Midnight Squad, Blue Steel the Paragon Police Department. I'm not sure who could lead other groups, some of them seem very bland and uninteresting, mostly existing to serve as enemy fodder for villains, but those are some concepts.

 

To be really out there, there could even be neutral patrons. Maybe some rogue element among the heroes could be messing with the war effort against the Rikti, and Vanguard needs to recruit a Vigilante or Rogue to deal with this gross violation of its neutrality. You could get one of the bigger names among Vanguard as your sponsor. Just a thought.

[RadiantPhoenix]

If there's new Epic pools being added, one of them should have whip attacks.

 

Also, if they're mirrors of the Patron pools, there should be one that's based on Fire (possibly the whip one), and one that's based on Psi, kinda like how Mako has Cold, Ghost Widow has Negative, and Scirocco has Electric.

 

Maybe also a toxic/bio/nature one, or a light-based one?

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, RadiantPhoenix said:

If there's new Epic pools being added, one of them should have whip attacks.

Depending on what you are asking for, we won't be getting any whip attacks because they don't work in the game. That's why Demon Summoning's whip attacks are whip blasts instead.

[Alchemystic]

11 minutes ago, RadiantPhoenix said:

If there's new Epic pools being added, one of them should have whip attacks.

 

I could maybe see them being added if Infernal was one of the Patrons

 

 

Edited May 12 by Alchemystic

[Haijinx]

Manticore would represent baldness powers.

 

Cause we all know that fakey mess on his head is a wig.

[gameboy1234]

I'd make each of the Freedom Phalanx available to players based on Origin.  All players would get access to all power pools though because anything else is just going to start fights.

 

Manticore -- Natural origin heroes

 

Citadel -- Technology

 

Numina -- Magic

 

Penelope Yin -- Mutant

 

Synapse -- Science

 

Each one could extend the "origin of power" exposition that you get from Perry Winkle, while you're also fighting a ton of dudes.  Or something like that.  After you finish the TF you can then go to any of the FF members and get the patron power you want.

 

 

[Alchemystic]

14 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

I'd make each of the Freedom Phalanx available to players based on Origin.  All players would get access to all power pools though because anything else is just going to start fights.

 

Manticore -- Natural origin heroes

 

Citadel -- Technology

 

Numina -- Magic

 

Penelope Yin -- Mutant

 

Synapse -- Science

 

Each one could extend the "origin of power" exposition that you get from Perry Winkle, while you're also fighting a ton of dudes.  Or something like that.  After you finish the TF you can then go to any of the FF members and get the patron power you want.

 

 

 

Not a bad idea, given Blueside leans more into the origins than Redside (especially in superpower governance), but I wonder how they would differ in theme from the existing Origin Power Pools?