"What happened to the MSRs?"

[sh1zuchan]

Some people might have come to Point du Hoc in the Rikti War Zone during MSR time and found nobody there. This doesn't mean the MSR is cancelled. The raid leaders have been switching to instanced raids, which are run inside a trial instance instead of the RWZ.

 

Here are a few questions people might have about what's happening:

 

How do I join an instanced raid?

You send a tell to the raid leader. When you accept the invite you'll be pulled into the instance.

You should send the tell from the Rikti War Zone.

 

How do I know who's leading the raid?

They'll be advertising the raid in the Looking For Group Channel.

 

Can I use the RWZ's broadcast channel like before?

No, the raid leader won't be in the RWZ and won't be able to see the broadcast channel. Send them a tell.

 

Can I just sneak into the raid like before?

No, the raid leader controls who gets into the instance. The only way you'll get in is sending them a tell.

 

Why is the joining method different from before?

It's to get around the bugs in the LFG queue. The LFG queue usually scrambles teams and will eject the players with the slowest connections if it's started with a large league.

 

Why should I send the tell from the Rikti War Zone?

If you're the opposite alignment from the raid leader, you won't be able to join from a zone other than the one they launched the instance in.

 

Does the instanced raid itself work differently?

There are some small changes.

1. The dropship spawns when the first pylon is destroyed.
2. The hospital is at Point du Hoc.
3. The pylons don't respawn after they're destroyed.
4. The shield doesn't reappear when the timer runs out. The Rikti all despawn instead.

Otherwise instanced raids operate more or less the same as zone raids.

Note: The badges are the same as with zone raids. You still get Demolitionist from setting bombs, Unabashed from an exploration marker in the middle of the ship, etc.

 

Don't instanced MSRs have a minimum level?

Not anymore. The level requirement was removed a couple months ago.

 

What are the advantages to this change?

1. Rewards in instanced raids tend to be higher. In zone raids, you can miss out on them just by being far from the team. This isn't an issue in the instance.
2. All players are set to level 50 in the instance.
3. Instanced raids don't have nearly as much lag as zone raids.
4. The hospital is much closer to the mothership.
5. The raid leader can kick griefers and leeches out of the instance.

 

Is there anything else I should know?

You won't have access to the following things inside the instance:

1. Trainers
2. Auction House
3. Merit Vendors
4. START Vendors
5. Inspiration Vendors
6. Levantera (the contact with the mission that gives you the Member of Vanguard badge)
7. Tailors

If you need any of these things, you'll have to take care of it before joining the raid.

 

With that all said, I'm hoping the changes make MSRs better for participants going forward. We currently have raids at 7pm and 10pm Eastern US time every day, 4pm on weekdays, and 5pm on weekends.

Edited May 14 by sh1zuchan

[Andreah]

It's possible the Raid Leader invites you, and even though you are in the right zone, it may fail to pick you up.

 

The most common reasons for this are:

• You are already LFG queued for a trial or TF,
• You have an active Ouro Arc,
• You have an active AE mission,
• You're already on a team or league.

If one of these is the case, you can drop it and send a /tell for an invite over again. 

If you can't figure out why it's not letting you join, try: "/teamquitinternal" in your chat. This console command should instantly drop any missions/teams you have active.

If that doesn't work (and I've had a person with this issue before) then just log out to desktop, restart City of Heroes, log back in, and send a tell over again. The one time this happened, a quit-to-desktop and relog fixed it.

[SnoBahr]

Another reason for failure to get the invite/accept the invite is if you're in a supergroup's base. Please, please be in the Rikti War Zone when sending a /t to the raid leader.

[wjrasmussen]

I have stopped doing MSR since the switch to instance.  They have the option to gather like before then go to instance.  I have been in that and it was fine.

 

The switch to go to instance then gather is annoying and unnecessary. 

Also, what is with the barker.  The raid leader should just broadcast it.

We know it was doing bc of people interfering with the event.  And it is good against that.  Now, in the instance everyone is level 50, which is nice, but does take a bit of the flavor out of it.

Overall, a win, but an annoying one.

[Porche]

1 hour ago, wjrasmussen said:

I have stopped doing MSR since the switch to instance.  They have the option to gather like before then go to instance.  I have been in that and it was fine.

 

The switch to go to instance then gather is annoying and unnecessary. 

Also, what is with the barker.  The raid leader should just broadcast it.

We know it was doing bc of people interfering with the event.  And it is good against that.  Now, in the instance everyone is level 50, which is nice, but does take a bit of the flavor out of it.

Overall, a win, but an annoying one.

 

I am still running mostly non-instanced but in large part its because I do not trust the league system at all.  Anyone who has used league a lot knows it is way buggier than you would think.

 

Forming the entire raid and then going into an instance can cause serious bugs, Good that it worked for you but as a raid leader doing these regularly it is a problem that we have to deal with.  It can form consistently with minimum bugs if we form it and then pull people in.  

 

The barker that some use is because the raid leader is in the instance so they cannot broadcast to the RWZ broadcast channel.  We don't do it because we think its funny, we do it because it is necessary. We send to LFG and General like normal, but people are STILL showing up in RWZ and asking where is the raid.   I have had to direct more than a couple to send a tell like the LFG message said to.

 

 

 

 

[Andreah]

On 5/4/2024 at 6:40 PM, wjrasmussen said:

They have the option to gather like before then go to instance

Most of the time, after you track down everyone who was AFK and get them to push the button, you'll get into the instance, and 3/4 of the people got dropped. And some random person got the league star. And they don't respond to tells. Maybe that person went afk ninja like. Maybe they hid their UI to play -- people do that. Maybe they're just super confused. Once you figure that out, and get the original raid leader back as the league, then you have to find all the people who got dropped and have them send tells to the league leader. Who might not even have been the person who invited them.  Then you have to sit and wait in the instance while the raid leader re-balances the teams. Even if everyone's a fifty, team composition balance is important to ensure everyone gets a similar amount of experience and merits.

 

Honest to god, I know everyone wants to chime in on how they can do it better. I have just one thing to say for that -- volunteer to run a few. It's not a super secret exclusive club. In fact, you don't need anyone's permission at all -- Go to RWZ and start recruiting. Afterwards, tell us how it went.

 

 

[wjrasmussen]

3 hours ago, Andreah said:

Most of the time, after you track down everyone who was AFK and get them to push the button, you'll get into the instance, and 3/4 of the people got dropped. And some random person got the league star. And they don't respond to tells. Maybe that person went afk ninja like. Maybe they hid their UI to play -- people do that. Maybe they're just super confused. Once you figure that out, and get the original raid leader back as the league, then you have to find all the people who got dropped and have them send tells to the league leader. Who might not even have been the person who invited them.  Then you have to sit and wait in the instance while the raid leader re-balances the teams. Even if everyone's a fifty, team composition balance is important to ensure everyone gets a similar amount of experience and merits.

 

Honest to god, I know everyone wants to chime in on how they can do it better. I have just one thing to say for that -- volunteer to run a few. It's not a super secret exclusive club. In fact, you don't need anyone's permission at all -- Go to RWZ and start recruiting. Afterwards, tell us how it went.

 

 

Tonight, I have decided to take a break for the game.  Perhaps as long as the summer or longer.  Just little things are adding up to a less enjoyable experience.

[SnoBahr]

Yeah, "Barky McBarker" is mine. I will admit that the instanced MSRs are a bit of a Reading Comprehension Test. The instructions are simple:

1. Go to the Rikti War Zone.
2. Send Bunni Rabbit a /tell to join the league (which is already inside the instance)

I can't begin to tell you how many people send me tells:

1. from inside their base
2. while shifting zone to the RWZ, before accepting the invite
3. from a non-coop opposite faction zone (I go back and forth between Rogue/Vigilante. If I'm Rogue, I can't invite someone who's picking their nose in Talos Island, nor can I invite someone from Sharkhead if I'm Vigilante)
4. but they forgot to call the final contact on an Ouro arc (so they're technically still on that mission arc)
5. from inside a door mission

When I try to re-invite them, it will occasionally come up that "[character] is considering another offer" *sigh* The only thing at that point is they need to quit to desktop and relog into the game (not to character-select, but out of the game entirely), to clear the flag that says they're considering joining a team/league.

 

I tried to get everyone for the instanced raid together before entering the instance itself. It was an absolute cluster-pluck, for all the reasons Andreah stated. Never doing that again - I will continue entering all by myself, and inviting from inside.

 

On the plus side, reduced griefing. Reduced lag. The hospital is at Point du Hoc (but the dropship can hit you in the hospital area. You rez, only to drop once again, immediately, if the Dropship is nearby). Guaranteed dropship spawn. Everyone's at level 50.

Downside: Can't train up your levels during the raid, or quickly do the Member of Vanguard badge mission. Can't access Wenty's/Black Market from inside the mission.

[MaceVanHoffen]

I think we need to be very, very kind to the folks that run raids of any kind.  It's a rough job.  You will never please everyone.  More than that, someone will always hate whatever way you run it.  The risk of burnout is high, which hurts everyone.

 

I don't really care for instanced MSRs.  But are they that bad, really? No.  Everything is just tradeoffs.  It's much more important to support those willing to eat the pain sandwich of leading and organizing raids than it is to have every personal preference catered to.  I'll probably attend many instanced MSRs and have a great time doing so.

 

Hats off to all you crazy folks who organize things.  It's one of the many bricks in the Wall of Awesome that make up Everlasting.

[Lock-Down]

Finding the MSR schedule is difficult for me. Can we get it posted here? I know its very consistent. My ADHD always make me second guess the times. Is it possible to get it posted here. I would appreciate it, thanks.

 

[Grey-Ghost]

They are generally right after Hamidon falls so say about 7-7:15 and 10-10:15 EDT.  Earlier or later based on when Hami fills/completes

[sh1zuchan]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:16 PM, Lock-Down said:

Finding the MSR schedule is difficult for me. Can we get it posted here? I know its very consistent. My ADHD always make me second guess the times. Is it possible to get it posted here. I would appreciate it, thanks.

 

 

I gave the current raid times in the last paragraph of my post:

 

On 5/3/2024 at 8:30 PM, sh1zuchan said:

We currently have raids at 7pm and 10pm Eastern US time every day, 4pm on weekdays, and 5pm on weekends.

Edited May 11 by sh1zuchan

[SnoBahr]

And Monday/Wednesday/Friday, I run a (usually instanced) MSR at 4pm Eastern (because that's 1pm Pacific - I'm in California)

[Force Redux]

I'm just going to add that I appreciate everyone who runs the MSRs  instanced or otherwise. thank you  ❤️

[wjrasmussen]

On 5/9/2024 at 4:09 AM, SnoBahr said:

Yeah, "Barky McBarker" is mine. I will admit that the instanced MSRs are a bit of a Reading Comprehension Test. The instructions are simple:

1. Go to the Rikti War Zone.
2. Send Bunni Rabbit a /tell to join the league (which is already inside the instance)

I can't begin to tell you how many people send me tells:

1. from inside their base
2. while shifting zone to the RWZ, before accepting the invite
3. from a non-coop opposite faction zone (I go back and forth between Rogue/Vigilante. If I'm Rogue, I can't invite someone who's picking their nose in Talos Island, nor can I invite someone from Sharkhead if I'm Vigilante)
4. but they forgot to call the final contact on an Ouro arc (so they're technically still on that mission arc)
5. from inside a door mission

When I try to re-invite them, it will occasionally come up that "[character] is considering another offer" *sigh* The only thing at that point is they need to quit to desktop and relog into the game (not to character-select, but out of the game entirely), to clear the flag that says they're considering joining a team/league.

 

I tried to get everyone for the instanced raid together before entering the instance itself. It was an absolute cluster-pluck, for all the reasons Andreah stated. Never doing that again - I will continue entering all by myself, and inviting from inside.

 

On the plus side, reduced griefing. Reduced lag. The hospital is at Point du Hoc (but the dropship can hit you in the hospital area. You rez, only to drop once again, immediately, if the Dropship is nearby). Guaranteed dropship spawn. Everyone's at level 50.

Downside: Can't train up your levels during the raid, or quickly do the Member of Vanguard badge mission. Can't access Wenty's/Black Market from inside the mission.

See, you are being a bit of an ass here with the whole reading comprehension bit. So f off.  You the same person who talked in the MSR about people just being lazy?  BC f off to the person that said that.  And why are you botting a character?

[wjrasmussen]

On 5/9/2024 at 2:00 PM, MaceVanHoffen said:

I think we need to be very, very kind to the folks that run raids of any kind.  It's a rough job.  You will never please everyone.  More than that, someone will always hate whatever way you run it.  The risk of burnout is high, which hurts everyone.

 

I don't really care for instanced MSRs.  But are they that bad, really? No.  Everything is just tradeoffs.  It's much more important to support those willing to eat the pain sandwich of leading and organizing raids than it is to have every personal preference catered to.  I'll probably attend many instanced MSRs and have a great time doing so.

 

Hats off to all you crazy folks who organize things.  It's one of the many bricks in the Wall of Awesome that make up Everlasting.

Some of us have been in many msr for the whole time homecoming has been around.  Just tossing out hater is because people are voicing a different opinion just doesn't work for me.

At this point, I would rather see MSR be a zone like hami.

[MaceVanHoffen]

I didn't mean to imply you were hating.  Just highlighting that no matter how the MSRs are run, someone isn't going to like it.  And I'm including myself in the camp of not preferring the instanced MSRs.

 

Totally agree on the "MSR zone" idea.

[SnoBahr]

5 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

See, you are being a bit of an ass here with the whole reading comprehension bit. So f off.  You the same person who talked in the MSR about people just being lazy?  BC f off to the person that said that.  And why are you botting a character?

Re: Reading Comprehension: I pointed out how people have failed to follow instructions. If that makes me an ass, whoop-di-fing-doo.

Re: lazy people in the MSR: It's not a farm. It's not a place to be a door sitter. Either participate or F right off. If you're sitting there, picking your nose, you're missing out on XP and possibly VMs, and being a leech. Taking without giving. Being non-participatory. If you take offense at that, then one can assume you're one of the leeches.

Re: botting a character: As has been stated before, the leader can't use /broadcast in the RWZ, because they're already in the MSR instance.

In conclusion, you have been answered several times, with the same information, and yet you still don't seem to comprehend what you're reading. Please DM me your in-game global, so I can put you on my ignore list, so you don't have to see my recruiting, and I'll put you on Barky's ignore list, so you don't see his /broadcasts. I'm not trying to be bitchy or facetious; I'm serious. You're expressing so much dislike towards how Instanced raid leaders run their raids, I just want to make sure you don't accidentally get invited to a raid in which you'd prefer not to participate. If you don't want to DM me, my in-game global is @snobahr. Put me on your ignore list.

Edited May 14 by SnoBahr
Fixed "of" to "or"

[sh1zuchan]

Okay, this level of hostility is not necessary.

 

I understand that there are aspects of instanced raids that are different enough to be annoying for people who are comfortable with zone raids.

 

The barkers are there because there are people who don't know the leader of an instanced raid won't in the RWZ and won't be able to see broadcast chat. We don't want to deal with people sending invite requests into the void, getting frustrated, and leaving. The barkers leave when the raid starts.

[lemming]

Just was on an instanced MSR today.   Low volume of players, but I found it as smooth as any other MSR.   I thought very well done, no problems with suddenly low level on a team, everyone was present.

 

(I still think they are about 10-15 min too long, but that's my own reason for not doing MSRs very often)

[Greycat]

On 5/13/2024 at 4:10 PM, wjrasmussen said:

 And why are you botting a character?

 

... for the same reason that clubs do on event nights and SGs do when they're recruiting?

 

"I have information I need to repeat on where to find a thing/who to contact, and they need to be somewhere people will see them!"

 

Not a difficult concept. They're not running a bot *in/during the raid.* Given you are acting like you are on Everlasting (since you're complaining about what SnoBahr said, and are in this subforum) you *have* to have run across this many, many times. There seems to usually be at least 2-3 different groups doing the same thing for their SGs/events practically every night.

Edited May 15 by Greycat

[OverkillEngine]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:30 PM, sh1zuchan said:

Instanced raids don't have nearly as much lag as zone raids.

Holy Frijoles is this one ever true. Joined an instanced MSR earlier today and didn't even have to tweak my settings, it was perfectly playable. I may actually show up to these on a regular basis now.

[jkwak]

Not all MSR leaders have changed to the instanced MSR, this thread makes it sound like they have.

At least one SG which hosts a weekly MSR has not.

Reason for that was to allow people to tag along even when the league is full and to give people who come late an easyer time to join

[Puce Nonagon]

Instanced or not, I really appreciate the folks who give up their time to host regular MSRs for people.

 

As for which is better, for my part, I dread the green button, because on at least two occasions, I got very poorly-timed baby aggro and missed out. I don't like being that guy. If instanced had trainers, that would be awesome. 

[Shin Magmus]

On 5/5/2024 at 1:40 AM, wjrasmussen said:

I have stopped doing MSR since the switch to instance.  They have the option to gather like before then go to instance.  I have been in that and it was fine.

 

The switch to go to instance then gather is annoying and unnecessary...

     Neat.  I find the Instanced MSRs to be both less annoying and less laggy than the open zone ones.  The leaders seem to also prefer them, since it has many subtle benefits that cause certain types of leechers to simply not show up.  This has a second order effect where Instanced MSR are routinely *more profitable for everyone involved* than the open zone ones, while simultaneously being more pleasant to play from the reduced lag.  Sucks that you're not enjoying it as much as the rest of us.