How do you slot Health and Stamina?

[PhotriusPyrelus]

  On 5/9/2024 at 5:26 PM, Maelwys said:

This is "I'm a finely balanced permadom with no fecking slots left"

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Why wouldn't you use performance shifter in stamina?  According to my calculations (which I fully admit could be in error, but I don't want to write a thesis on it at the moment), it out-performs a level 50 IO at 100 max end and the gap widens as max endurance increases.  Of course, if that IO is boosted to +5, the difference becomes much smaller, but PS is still winning by a nose.

Is it because the IO is consistent and reliable where as the proc is...well, a proc?

[jprewitt73]

  On 5/9/2024 at 5:26 PM, Maelwys said:

This is "I'm a finely balanced permadom with no fecking slots left"

 

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[Maelwys]

  On 5/10/2024 at 12:52 AM, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Why wouldn't you use performance shifter in stamina?  
Is it because the IO is consistent and reliable where as the proc is...well, a proc?

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Pretty much. I prefer consistent to spikey; and a 25% chance to kick in every 10 seconds (Performance Shifter) is much more spikey than a 50% chance to kick in every 10 seconds (Panacea) - the former has a 17.798% chance NOT to kick in at least once over the course of a minute... whilst the latter has just a 1.563% chance.

And as you point out, the difference in average endurance return between a single +5 EndMod in Stamina's base slot and a Performance Shifter is negligible.
In the below example it's 0.280625 End/Sec (Proc) versus 0.25 End/Sec (50+5 EndMod IO)





Also, whilst I'm levelling up endurance typically isn't that much of an issue because of the START vendor selling Recovery Serums for  50k inf per 5 charges.
 

Edited May 10, 2024 by Maelwys

[jprewitt73]

Okay, @Maelwys, I gotta ask. What build are you running where your end recovery is 4.65/s? Cause that's truly impressive.

[JasperStone]

I use no more than two slots each.

Set and proc choice depends on build.

[Maelwys]

  On 5/10/2024 at 12:11 PM, jprewitt73 said:

Okay, @Maelwys, I gotta ask. What build are you running where your end recovery is 4.65/s? Cause that's truly impressive.

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That's one of my /Psi permadom builds with "near-perma" Drain Psyche; and so it assumes at least 1 foe in Drain Psyche range - without DP it clocks in at a far more modest 3.3 End/Sec! 😛

That said, my WP Tanker does sit at over 4.6 natively, and my Bio Tanker is almost always at the Recovery Hardcap (~9.8 End/Sec for them).

[Riverdusk]

Couple of other advantages of the performance shifter over an endurancemod to keep in mind unless I'm mistaken somehow in how it works.  The proc works better when you exemp down as you don't lose any effectiveness.  The proc continues to work at full strength even if you get -recovery debuffed.  

[AlwaysAPrice]

  On 5/10/2024 at 12:52 AM, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Why wouldn't you use performance shifter in stamina?  According to my calculations (which I fully admit could be in error, but I don't want to write a thesis on it at the moment), it out-performs a level 50 IO at 100 max end and the gap widens as max endurance increases.  Of course, if that IO is boosted to +5, the difference becomes much smaller, but PS is still winning by a nose.

Is it because the IO is consistent and reliable where as the proc is...well, a proc?

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For me it's because back in the day I was under the impression that Shifter was only better than an IO as a third slot, where normal enhancement would be ED'd into irrelevance when dealing with 50+ IOs -- maybe a second slot if running an End Mod Alpha. But I haven't actually bothered to look into whether that was changed by PPM or any other updates in the last 12 years (or how right it even was in the first place). Napkin mathing after a look in Mids suggests you're right, but I'm still inclined to keep to straight EndMod when single-slotting for the reason suggested by the second question; when I'm direly low and Hasten is blinking, I don't need that to be the minute Shifter's like "ehh maybe next time".

[Maelwys]

  On 5/10/2024 at 1:38 PM, AlwaysAPrice said:

 

For me it's because back in the day I was under the impression that Shifter was only better than an IO as a third slot

I haven't actually bothered to look into whether that was changed by PPM or any other updates in the last 12 years (or how right it even was in the first place)

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Vanden's guide should still be a decent rule of thumb:

 

[PhotriusPyrelus]

  On 5/10/2024 at 7:27 AM, Maelwys said:

Pretty much. I prefer consistent to spikey; and a 25% chance to kick in every 10 seconds (Performance Shifter) is much more spikey than a 50% chance to kick in every 10 seconds (Panacea) - the former has a 17.798% chance NOT to kick in at least once over the course of a minute... whilst the latter has just a 1.563% chance.

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Wait, Panacea's endurance works outside PvP?  Man, that tooltip needs a good rephrasing, because as stated it sure sounds like the endurance infusion only works in PvP...

[Maelwys]

  On 5/10/2024 at 1:43 PM, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Wait, Panacea's endurance works outside PvP?  Man, that tooltip needs a good rephrasing, because as stated it sure sounds like the endurance infusion only works in PvP...

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Yep. 

Slotted into a Toggle/Auto it's a 50% chance to grant 7.5% Endurance (and a decent amount of health) every 10 seconds... which is massive endurance return, almost as good as base Stamina.

[Apogee]

I sense a rise in the price of Panacea IOs on the /AH incoming...

[Maelwys]

  On 5/10/2024 at 3:59 PM, Apogee said:

I sense a rise in the price of Panacea IOs on the /AH incoming...

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Last I checked it was ~10m already anyway and I was under the impression that the Endurance/Healing buff it grants in Health was pretty much common knowledge.
(Panacea does, however, have some rather interesting interactions with certain powers like Triage Beacon, Spirit Tree and Spirit Ward... and I've found the latter particularly useful on my Earth Dominator for keeping Stoney alive!) 🙊
 

Edited May 10, 2024 by Maelwys

[jprewitt73]

  On 5/10/2024 at 12:24 PM, Maelwys said:

That's one of my /Psi permadom builds with "near-perma" Drain Psyche; and so it assumes at least 1 foe in Drain Psyche range - without DP it clocks in at a far more modest 3.3 End/Sec! 😛

That said, my WP Tanker does sit at over 4.6 natively, and my Bio Tanker is almost always at the Recovery Hardcap (~9.8 End/Sec for them).

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I use to run a /Psi Dominator on Live. I kind of forgot about Drain Psyche. I may have to roll one again now. I'm currently still in love and only playing my Dark/Martial Dom, but a good /Psi Dom could be good fun. 

 

Thanks!

[LKN-351]

  On 5/10/2024 at 1:43 PM, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Wait, Panacea's endurance works outside PvP?  Man, that tooltip needs a good rephrasing, because as stated it sure sounds like the endurance infusion only works in PvP...

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I absolutely agree with this, cause I have avoided using it cause it didn't seem that great outside of PVP...

 

  On 5/10/2024 at 1:47 PM, Maelwys said:

Yep. 

Slotted into a Toggle/Auto it's a 50% chance to grant 7.5% Endurance (and a decent amount of health) every 10 seconds... which is massive endurance return, almost as good as base Stamina.

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...but with this being the case, I think it may take the place of one of the others in health on certain builds.

 

I recently found out that Performance Shifters proc doesn't count towards overall end/s in attributes, is this the same case with the Panacea proc?

[Maelwys]

  On 5/10/2024 at 4:49 PM, LKN-351 said:

Performance Shifters proc doesn't count towards overall end/s in attributes, is this the same case with the Panacea proc?

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Yeah - because neither of them buff your "Recovery" but instead directly restore some endurance. Think of it like taking a blue inspiration.
Likewise the Power Transfer Proc doesn't count towards your "Regeneration" because it directly restores some health.

[Sovera]

Like everyone else has said already. Those two powers are only mules for my endurance recovery so by order of importance Panaceia proc, Performance Shifter proc, Miracle proc, Numina proc. If the build is heavy in endurance then I slot an early endurance mod proc in stamina as well. At level 50 this is boosted to +5.

 

This is the best bang for the buck in terms of endurance recovery. With infinite slots we could slot more things but the return value is low and it becomes muling. I try to make my muling useful and slotting Health/Stamina is not it.

 

Edited May 10, 2024 by Sovera

[CellyEl]

I have an adjacent, slightly absurd question: Does slotting recharge into autopowers affect proc rates? For example, say I've got a stamina-like power, auto, small recovery boost, and I throw a power transfer chance for heal in there, as one does.

If I then put a Synapse's shock: Endmod/rech in there, would that in any meaningful way affect Power Transfer's chance for proc?

Like, the sane answer is No, Of Course Not, There's No Recharge Value to alter and subsequently affect proc rates through.
But.
That's not a safe instinct to trust in CoH's code, now is it?

[Sovera]

  On 5/12/2024 at 8:30 AM, CellyEl said:

I have an adjacent, slightly absurd question: Does slotting recharge into autopowers affect proc rates? For example, say I've got a stamina-like power, auto, small recovery boost, and I throw a power transfer chance for heal in there, as one does.

If I then put a Synapse's shock: Endmod/rech in there, would that in any meaningful way affect Power Transfer's chance for proc?

Like, the sane answer is No, Of Course Not, There's No Recharge Value to alter and subsequently affect proc rates through.
But.
That's not a safe instinct to trust in CoH's code, now is it?

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No, passive powers check for procs every 10 seconds. Passive powers aren't even affected by recharge since they are passive. You can slot IOs that have recharge but they won't do  a thing.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Sovera is correct. 

 

Auto powers behave essentially like always-on Toggles. Their proc rate will be floored.

[BlackSpectre]

 

[Lusiphur Malache]

3 slots in each with a Prev. Med proc, Miracle proc, and another healing/absorb usually Doctored Wounds because of price.  2 Performance Shifter, 1 proc and 1 other along with a endmod IO.  Only buy attuned so as soon as my purse will let me I get what I can.