Remove NoPhase Entirely, or from Hibernate

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

Door sitting, you can still get attacked, ambushed, a patrol wander by... there is still some degree of risk.  Being in Hibernate there is none.  

 

 

So the door sitters then use almost any stealth power and except for the ambushes, go unnoticed by the wandering mobs. And in the case of the ambushes, several of them will just run up to the stealthed character, especially a Stalker using Hide, and just stand there while the door sitter calls out the waiting ambush for the rest of the team to double back and deal with. (Though some ambushes will ignore their stealth and attack them anyway.) And if the person is using Hibernate to sit out the mission(s) from a position of safety, the team leader has the option of just kicking them from the team. Or if it is the team leader, the others can bail and form their own team or join another.

[Shin Magmus]

9 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

The exploit is that someone in Hibernate constantly, would still receive rewards for their team's defeats while they themselves are not at risk.  Enter a mish and just sit in Hibernate while you reap all the rewards and your team does all the work.  ...No.  Just, no.  

 

Removing the NoPhase is fine, but then the power needs to be locked with the 120s cooldown where no recharge affects it.  

     The average Empathy Defender already does "receive rewards for their team's defeats while they themselves..." contribute almost nothing.  They aren't invincible mind you, but they are basically just cheerleaders: which is what a character who lived in Hibernate would also amount to.  Even if I had Hibernate on a 0s CD, I'd still use it as little as possible because I can't attack... can't move... can't play the game at all during it.  You think that someone would willingly just sit in Hibernate non-stop, but I'm trying to tell you that it's already been said in this thread, by other people, that Hibernate is only used when absolutely necessary. 

 

     You view this theoretical near-perma Hibernate user as some sort of overpowered God.  I'd view them more as a 0 DPS useless slug.  Our perception of the situation couldn't be more different.  That said, modern well-built Tankers are already "not at risk" most of the time and they still get full rewards.  I guess if this is an issue for you, you'll need to ban Tankers from your teams since they can get xp/inf without a risk of dying.  Spoiler alert: most well-built melee ATs aren't at risk of dying on basically all content outside of Advanced Mode: it's part of the appeal of playing a Scrapper for example.  It's just even more innate and obvious when you play a Tanker and find yourself un-killable almost for free. 

Edited May 29 by Shin Magmus

[Laucianna]

On 5/26/2024 at 8:00 PM, Glacier Peak said:

I guess I am just not grasping what you mean. There is in-game indication for it's duration - it says 120 seconds in the temporary power's description. It's an auto temporary power that is granted then removed, so I don't think it can have a countdown timer or blinking effect, if that's what you are advocating for.

 

 

Players can use the visual queue on their status bar to see whether NoPhase is active or not. 

 

NoPhase is currently not active.

 

NoPhase temporary power is granted after activating Hibernate.

 

Hibernate breaks after 30 seconds, NoPhase continues for 90 seconds (of the 120 second duration).

 

NoPhase is currently not active.

Personally I would prefer the power to have an orange ring around it (Like when you are able to combo it) as having auto buffs on and trying to check to see if you phase before the boss does it's big attack will be impossible, checking through all your buffs to find that icon rather then just looking at your phase power, seeing orange, and knowing it is good to go ❤️

[tidge]

I have no personal experience with Hibernate, but I have a vague recollection that once upon a time there were some concerns about its use in PVP. The Concern may have been about griefing for all I know.

[arcane]

Obviously being able to pop Hibernate over and over to the extent that your character can literally never die is overpowered whether it bottoms out your DPS or not. I’m okay with removing the NoPhase if the recharge time is adjusted though.

Edited May 29 by arcane

[arcane]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

I have no personal experience with Hibernate, but I have a vague recollection that once upon a time there were some concerns about its use in PVP. The Concern may have been about griefing for all I know.

Ice/Energy Tankers were basically chaining Phase Shift and Hibernate in such a way that they were impossible to kill in a duel. I vaguely recall swearing off of dueling Ice Tanks since I didn’t totally care for going into a duel with a 0% chance of getting a kill. 

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

I have no personal experience with Hibernate, but I have a vague recollection that once upon a time there were some concerns about its use in PVP. The Concern may have been about griefing for all I know.

 

31 minutes ago, arcane said:

Ice/Energy Tankers were basically chaining Phase Shift and Hibernate in such a way that they were impossible to kill in a duel. I vaguely recall swearing off of dueling Ice Tanks since I didn’t totally care for going into a duel with a 0% chance of getting a kill. 

So have Phase Shift and Hibernate work as is in PvP and as did for PvE.

[megaericzero]

4 hours ago, Laucianna said:

Personally I would prefer the power to have an orange ring around it (Like when you are able to combo it) as having auto buffs on and trying to check to see if you phase before the boss does it's big attack will be impossible, checking through all your buffs to find that icon rather then just looking at your phase power, seeing orange, and knowing it is good to go ❤️

Perhaps alternatively changing its icon slightly when NoPhase is still enforced? With the update to Rise of the Phoenix, its button shifts fluidly to and from Inferno's when it becomes usable while alive; maybe swapping Hibernate's icon to an alternate version that has a 🚫 overlaid when NoPhase would hinder it?

 

 

(Suggesting this as I read the colored rings as denoting a power's non-default state.)

 

[Frozen Burn]

7 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

     The average Empathy Defender already does "receive rewards for their team's defeats while they themselves..." contribute almost nothing.  They aren't invincible mind you, but they are basically just cheerleaders: which is what a character who lived in Hibernate would also amount to.  Even if I had Hibernate on a 0s CD, I'd still use it as little as possible because I can't attack... can't move... can't play the game at all during it.  You think that someone would willingly just sit in Hibernate non-stop, but I'm trying to tell you that it's already been said in this thread, by other people, that Hibernate is only used when absolutely necessary. 

 

     You view this theoretical near-perma Hibernate user as some sort of overpowered God.  I'd view them more as a 0 DPS useless slug.  Our perception of the situation couldn't be more different.  That said, modern well-built Tankers are already "not at risk" most of the time and they still get full rewards.  I guess if this is an issue for you, you'll need to ban Tankers from your teams since they can get xp/inf without a risk of dying.  Spoiler alert: most well-built melee ATs aren't at risk of dying on basically all content outside of Advanced Mode: it's part of the appeal of playing a Scrapper for example.  It's just even more innate and obvious when you play a Tanker and find yourself un-killable almost for free. 

 

1.  Emp defenders still pull their weight on a team even if healing is not needed - they are still buffing and using their attack set.  So, they are still engaged and earning their rewards like anyone else on the team.

 

2.  Don't tell me what I think - you apparently do not know.  I DO NOT think a near-perma Hibernate person is a god.  I ALSO think they would be a useless slug.  They are are reaping benefits and not risking anything.  And that is why I have a problem with no lockout period for the power.  

 

3.  Sure, perhaps most do not use Hibernate that much, but apparently some do as the OP is about clicking the power again within that 2 min window and not being able to - and wanting a count down for the seconds to hit it again.  And others, like you, are advocating for eliminating the NoPhase altogether (which is fine), but not suggesting an alternative, and also advocating for allowing perma Hibernation (which is not fine, imo). 

 

4.  Regarding being "unkillable" - I've seen "unkillable" melee types die in normal content too outside of hard modes.  But still, even if not - they are attacking, engaging in the fight, and contributing.  A perma-Hibernated toon is not even doing that.  They are as you said, again, "a 0 DPS useless slug."  And I see no reason the game should allow or encourage that type of behavior.  And I am surprised that you, as someone who views them as a "useless slug," would advocate for perma-hibernation.  But you are allowed to have your opinion like I am mine.

 

[Shin Magmus]

I'm glad you still think that the average Empathy Defender uses any of their buffs.  Keep that hope alive soldier, believe the impossible dream.

[PeregrineFalcon]

14 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

I'm glad you still think that the average Empathy Defender uses any of their buffs.  Keep that hope alive soldier, believe the impossible dream.

I'm glad to hear that you have access to the server metrics that show you what "the average Empathy Defender" does on the Homecoming servers.

 

Any chance you could give us a more detailed breakdown on how people play their Empathy Defenders? As someone who has one, and who is constantly putting Fortitude and Clear Mind on as many people as I can, I'd love to see how my playstyle compares to others.

 

Thank you.

[Ghost]

57 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm glad to hear that you have access to the server metrics that show you what "the average Empathy Defender" does on the Homecoming servers.

 

Any chance you could give us a more detailed breakdown on how people play their Empathy Defenders? As someone who has one, and who is constantly putting Fortitude and Clear Mind on as many people as I can, I'd love to see how my playstyle compares to others.

 

Thank you.

Que up the backtracking 

 

“I’m talking about newbies”

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

Que up the backtracking 

 

“I’m talking about newbies”

Im certain they’re sticking to their guns.

 

*I don’t team with too many emps nowadays, and the last one I did team with was excellent. I have an emp myself, and I play it exceedingly well. But I’m an emp vet, having one preshutdown way back before inherent stamina and being sought after on virtue for being a solid emp. 
 

But I also understand a lot of “vet” emps ignore buffs and or only focus them on tanks. I have been on several teams in the past AND preshutdown where this is the case. 
 

I’m not foolish enough to give the benefit of the doubt to a PuG emp nowadays. I usually err on the side of caution and share Shin’s trepidations 

 

 

*I hate hate HATE tooting my own horn about skill in a game like this where its literally weenie hut juniors. I’m not even trying to say I’m the best emp ever, I’m just saying I utilized all my buffs and kept fortitude on 7 teammates, and AB on the ones with end issues or whoever was contributing max DPS. I consider that “playing exceedingly well” and view it as something insanely easy to do for literally anyone

Edited May 29 by Seed22