Low-Level Dark/Dark End. Problems

[PhotriusPyrelus]

I had a concept for a Dark/Dark tanker I wanted to park at level 22, but after playing him a while I noticed I'd burn through my blue bar STUPID FAST.

I asked in chat and it seems well-known that Dark/Dark is very end-hungry, but it gets better as you level.  My question is: can it be stabilized by level 22?

Enclosed is the build I was planning on, it's probably awful, try not to die of cringe.

Dark-Dark22.mbd

[SeraphimKensai]

At 22 you can slot Numina/miracle/panacea into health, power transfer into stamina. You can also do a theft of essence proc in dark regen, or throw one in siphon life since your dark melee. Also slotting end reduction in attacks/armors. Also getting stat boosting accolades like Atlas medallion and Portal Jockey.

 

And if you really need an extra boost from time to time you can pop a recovery serum as well.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

It's a bit confusing to see the theft of essence set in dark regeneration, but not the proc.

The theft of essence chance for +endurance proc should go into dark regeneration before level 12. Pay for an unslotter or two and try it out. You can get multiple activations of the proc IO per casting of dark regeneration, when using it in crowds.  

The theft of essence +endurance proc is transformative for dark armor.

Also, your tank doesn't have the mez protection toggle. Not sure why that wasn't taken yet. You could perhaps burn a respec, drop cloak of fear, get obsidian to replace it, and then pick up cloak of fear later once again if you really like it. 

Edited June 2 by EnjoyTheJourney

[PhotriusPyrelus]

4 minutes ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

I'm a bit confused to see the theft of essence set in dark regeneration, but not the proc.

The theft of essence chance for +endurance proc should go into dark regeneration before level 12. Pay for an unslotter or two and try it out. You can get multiple activations of the proc IO per casting of dark regeneration, when using it in crowds.  

The theft of essence +endurance proc is transformative for dark armor.

I don't really like procs, so I tend to ignore them and pick sets based on bonuses.  I needed Accuracy and Healing for the ability, and I wanted the End Max set bonus.

Let me take a closer look at the proc...

3.5 PPM on a 20 second CD ability is 90% proc rate, so I guess that's good.  Drop the Acc/Heal for it?

[Onlyasandwich]

24 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

.5 PPM on a 20 second CD ability is 90% proc rate, so I guess that's good.  Drop the Acc/Heal for it?

Dark Regen ultimately deserves a solid 6 slot.

 

However, tighter slotting would be:

• Touch of Nictus Acc/Heal
• Touch of Nictus Heal
• Touch of Nictus damage proc
• Theft of essence end proc

Given that Dark Regen is typically an overkill amount of healing in the first place, this should be plenty of heal enhancement to work with, and it refills your end, as well as doing some nice damage while you're at it.

 

Depending on how much global accuracy you end up with in your build, you may need some additional acc slotting here as well. Between kismet and global acc, I typically don't need more than this.

 

I personally like to fill the last couple slots with more damage procs, as it makes a very reliable aoe damage power that pops while you are doing something you'd be doing anyhow (healing!). I get that you don't like them, but they work very well here, as the proc rate will be high.

Edited June 2 by Onlyasandwich

[EnjoyTheJourney]

You might want to leave off the set bonus prioritization for early levels for dark regeneration.

Your planned build has only 70% accuracy dark regeneration at the moment. That will let your tank down quite often, especially against mobs that have some defense. 

You might want dark regeneration six-slotted by level 22. Try to get accuracy to as close to 95% as you can, get some endurance reduction in it, and get the theft of essence +endurance proc in it.

Edit: OAS's input is very good, as usual. Getting the kismet +to hit IO early is a particularly good choice for any dark armor user because dark regeneration starts out behind the curve for accuracy. And, dark regeneration can be procc'd up for damage and it will trigger quite often; it's particularly appealing to fit in damage procs in an endgame build, after all the +accuracy set bonuses are in place. 

But, while leveling up it can be a bit of a struggle to get accuracy high enough for dark regeneration. So, focusing on getting enough accuracy to get 95% chance to hit or close, endurance reduction, and the theft of essence +endurance proc is the safer choice, as it leaves your tanker in a better place for both healing and endurance management. 

Edited June 2 by EnjoyTheJourney

[mcdoogss]

Cloak of fear is a very expensive toggle, with terrible base accuracy and magnitude.  At the least I’d recommend deferring until after 28 when you can select dark consumption from dark melee.  
 

the +end proc in dark regen is key, as is + end perf shifter in stamina.  Panacea and miracle +recovery are the best options in health for end management.  
 

iirc the theft of essence +end proc is decent in siphon life 

Edited June 2 by mcdoogss

[PhotriusPyrelus]

Thank you all for the input!  It has been very edifying.  I *vastly* underrated the Theft of Essence proc; it's basically a mini Consume from Fire Armor.  Incredible!  I also didn't even know the Kismet one existed.  Not sure I'll actually need it, but it's good to know it exists.

So just from observations on live versus mids, I got the sneaking suspicion that numbers vary widely as you level up (spoiler: they do).  So I got on the beta/test/brainstorm server whatever you wanna call it and made the build as I posted, but with the Theft of Essence proc instead of the pure Heal enhancement.

It was very illuminating, and the build should work fine for what I want to do with it.  The strength difference between Attuned set IOs and +3 Set IOs was surprisingly stark, but as my purpose will be exemplaring, I have to use attuned (it also shouldn't make much difference when exemplared).  I was able to pretty comfortably fight +3 minions (at level 22).

I tried using mostly SOs instead, thinking that I could improve endurance efficiency to offset the loss of endurance set bonuses.  That did not work *AT ALL*.  Even +3 SOs were jocularly weaker than using even attuned IOs.  Less overall endurance efficiency, less damage, less accuracy.

 

--- --- ---

EDIT:  So I finally figured out how to exemplar down and test things out, and I'm kind of astonished at how well-balanced the exemplar system is.  I took my level 22, exemplared him down to 7, and I made a new character and leveled him up to 8 (for Dark Regen) and slotted him with +3 SOs (plus Panacea and Theft procs).  Playing each of them feels almost identical against similar-leveled enemies.  Even though the level 8 has superior bonuses (38.3% per enhancement) and slightly better damage, the additional abilities and slots and set bonuses keep the level 22 competetive.

Testing this over on Brainstorm has been incredibly eye-opening for desinging characters to be exemplared.  I've tightened up the build even more (for anyone interested, I don't expect many are.  XD).

"Still only 3 slots in Dark Regen?!?  What's wrong with you?!"

It has 95% to-hit against even levels. 87.45% against +1s, 77.74% against +2s. 3 hits very nearly completely fills my HP bar.  Touch of the Nictus requires level 27 to slot, and exemplaring down loses all the set bonuses.  That's why I did away with Impervium Armour in Dark Embrace and Murky Cloud, too.  The whole point was the endurance mangement set bonuses, and I lose those going below level 9.

Dark-Dark17.mbd

Edited June 3 by PhotriusPyrelus

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Thank you all for the input!  It has been very edifying.  I *vastly* underrated the Theft of Essence proc; it's basically a mini Consume from Fire Armor.  Incredible!  I also didn't even know the Kismet one existed.  Not sure I'll actually need it, but it's good to know it exists.

So just from observations on live versus mids, I got the sneaking suspicion that numbers vary widely as you level up (spoiler: they do).  So I got on the beta/test/brainstorm server whatever you wanna call it and made the build as I posted, but with the Theft of Essence proc instead of the pure Heal enhancement.

It was very illuminating, and the build should work fine for what I want to do with it.  The strength difference between Attuned set IOs and +3 Set IOs was surprisingly stark, but as my purpose will be exemplaring, I have to use attuned (it also shouldn't make much difference when exemplared).  I was able to pretty comfortably fight +3 minions (at level 22).

I tried using mostly SOs instead, thinking that I could improve endurance efficiency to offset the loss of endurance set bonuses.  That did not work *AT ALL*.  Even +3 SOs were jocularly weaker than using even attuned IOs.  Less overall endurance efficiency, less damage, less accuracy.

 

--- --- ---

EDIT:  So I finally figured out how to exemplar down and test things out, and I'm kind of astonished at how well-balanced the exemplar system is.  I took my level 22, exemplared him down to 7, and I made a new character and leveled him up to 8 (for Dark Regen) and slotted him with +3 SOs (plus Panacea and Theft procs).  Playing each of them feels almost identical against similar-leveled enemies.  Even though the level 8 has superior bonuses (38.3% per enhancement) and slightly better damage, the additional abilities and slots and set bonuses keep the level 22 competetive.

Testing this over on Brainstorm has been incredibly eye-opening for desinging characters to be exemplared.  I've tightened up the build even more (for anyone interested, I don't expect many are.  XD).

"Still only 3 slots in Dark Regen?!?  What's wrong with you?!"

It has 95% to-hit against even levels. 87.45% against +1s, 77.74% against +2s. 3 hits very nearly completely fills my HP bar.  Touch of the Nictus requires level 27 to slot, and exemplaring down loses all the set bonuses.  That's why I did away with Impervium Armour in Dark Embrace and Murky Cloud, too.  The whole point was the endurance mangement set bonuses, and I lose those going below level 9.

Dark-Dark17.mbd 18.73 kB · 0 downloads

 

It's not strictly needed to worry about examplaring so low. At most I'd say worry about examplaring to level 20 which is where you'd be if doing the very first TF (puts you at level 16, which gives access to all powers up to level 21 even if our last power is at level 20).

 

For end-game you want to set the relative level to +3 which is where the Alpha incarnate will put you to (no more level 4s, at least while level 45+ because it does not work 44 and down).

 

Other tips that work in general but especially with Dark Armor is how it's more important to slot endurance reduction on attacks instead of toggles, and in DA's case in particular go easy on the myriad toggles. They are objectively too weak for their worth since they only work on minions and we bash minions in the first seconds of combat anyway.

 

 

But yes, I'm glad to see you got those problems licked. Remember to buy Recovery Serums while leveling off the START vendor since they are cheapo, and if you haven't buy the Amplifiers next time (they grow more expensive as we level so level 1 is the right moment to do so).

 

My signature has a guide with other tips if you're a new veteran (:D), and if you ever feel like branching out the (near) immortal build was tailored for newcomers.

[Uun]

Cloak of Fear is hot garbage and should be dropped entirely. It has a huge endurance cost and a 33% accuracy penalty. It requires 6 slots to be remotely effective and even then it only affects minions. 

 

In addition to the recommendations above, be on the lookout for IO sets that provide an endurance discount. Unbreakable Guard provides a 2.5% end discount for 2 pieces, which you can slot in each of your shields. Also, make sure you have the Performance Shifter: Chance for +end slotted in Stamina.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

At the risk of belaboring one thing, the mez toggle really needs to be taken. Your tank can't hold aggro and is at risk of being defeated if they are getting mezzed a lot. Without obsidian your tank will be mezzed a lot. 

This provides you with a good power to take in place of cloak of fear, which is of limited value for the reasons given by others. 

Not sure if others noticed, but you'll also want knockback protection IOs (karma, steadfast protection, and/or the universal travel one for which the name escapes me). Probably at least 8 points worth to minimize getting knocked about.

Dark armor does have fear protection in its shields, which can be really helpful sometimes. But, it doesn't have knockback protection in its shields and getting knocked around a fair amount can get a bit old after a while. 

Edited June 3 by EnjoyTheJourney

[SeraphimKensai]

13 minutes ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

At the risk of belaboring one thing, the mez toggle really needs to be taken. Your tank can't hold aggro and is at risk of being defeated if they are getting mezzed a lot. Without obsidian your tank will be mezzed a lot.

I definitely concur on this. Taking mez protection as soon as available is important especially on a tank that relies on an active heal for mitigation. Also slotting in some KB protection with IOs helps quite a bit as well.

[tidge]

18 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Dark Regen ultimately deserves a solid 6 slot.

 

However, tighter slotting would be:

• Touch of Nictus Acc/Heal
• Touch of Nictus Heal
• Touch of Nictus damage proc
• Theft of essence end proc

Given that Dark Regen is typically an overkill amount of healing in the first place, this should be plenty of heal enhancement to work with, and it refills your end, as well as doing some nice damage while you're at it.

 

Depending on how much global accuracy you end up with in your build, you may need some additional acc slotting here as well. Between kismet and global acc, I typically don't need more than this.

 

I personally like to fill the last couple slots with more damage procs, as it makes a very reliable aoe damage power that pops while you are doing something you'd be doing anyhow (healing!). I get that you don't like them, but they work very well here, as the proc rate will be high.

 

My final-build slotting of Dark Regeneration is:

• Touch of the Nictus Acc/End/Heal
• Touch of the Nictus Acc/End/Recharge
• Touch of the Nictus %Negative
• Theft of Essence %+Endurance
• Obliteration %Smashing
• Eradication %Energy

IIRC Touch of the Nictus can't be slotted until way after level 22, so I'd just slot for Accuracy and Endurance reduction (IOs) before then.  I don't sleep on slotting it for Endurance reduction on Dark Regeneration, as its cost-to-cast is rather steep.

 

I find that the %proc chances are improved with more Accuracy slotting in the powers themselves, as I believe that there is an additional ToHit roll (beyond both the initial necessary ToHit and any %proc chance) for %procs in all powers (to prevent AutoHit powers from having ceiling %proc chances). I believe that a player's Global Accuracy/ToHit bonuses do not get factored into this extra "ToHit" roll for %proc effects.

 

27 minutes ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Not sure if others noticed, but you'll also want knockback protection IOs (karma, steadfast protection, and/or the universal travel one for which the name escapes me). Probably at least 8 points worth to minimize getting knocked about.

 

Because Dark Armor relies so heavily on Dark Regeneration to survive (more so than any toggle except for Obsidian Shield), if you don't add KB protection into the build you will eventually find yourself unable to click on Dark Regeneration when you want it (ehem, FREEM!). I shoot for 14 points of KB protection, because adding 10 more points from a SG base buff makes you functionally immune to FREEM!

 

Dark Embrace can take 3 pieces of Gladiator's Armor (for 3 points)

Death Shroud can take 3 pieces of Fury of the Gladiator (for 3 points)

A travel power can take a Blessing of the Zephyr unique (for 4 points)

4 more points can be had from a Defense (Karma) or Resistance (Steadfast Protection) mule.

 

You could probably stop with 12 points of KB protection (sort list by magnitude), but I find that those PVP sets are pretty good choices for their enhancement effects (since they can be boosted to 50+5), and 10 points is "not always enough" when facing large spawns, so I end up with 14 before considering a SG base buff. The only reason I can think of shooting for 18 points on an individual character (via slotting) is to (with a SG base buff) stand fast against Waterspouts, or if engaging in PVP.