Homecoming Server Update (June 26th): Donation Window Poll

[Cipher]

Firstly, I'd like to preface this by stating again how appreciative we are for everyone's support - without you, the community, we simply could not continue what we're doing.

 

Donation Window Poll

 

We've been paying attention to the previous donation threads and other communication channels, and one thing we've seen is that people have been wanting to contribute but have felt like they were left out due to us opening donations at seemingly random times at the start of the month. So starting now and going forward, we will be opening a poll for the community to determine what time the donation window will open. This way everyone is aware of exactly when we'll be opening up for donations each month.

 

Our current plan is to open donations at the voted time on the first Saturday of each month. For July, this will be Saturday the 6th. As usual, our donation window will automatically close as soon as the monthly upkeep has been met.

 

---

 

Pop Culture Costume Contest

 

Reminder that we're hosting a Pop Culture Costume Content this Saturday (June 29th) at 21:00 UTC in Kallisti Wharf on all shards, so make sure you're getting those costumes ready!

 

There will be rewards consisting of piles of Reward Merits, Fashion Victim badges, and shiny new titles going to the top costumes on each shard.

 

If you would like to see what time 21:00 UTC is for you, you may use this site.

[Apparition]

Our current plan is to open donations at the voted time on the first Saturday of each month. For July, this will be Saturday the 7th. As usual, our donation window will automatically close as soon as the monthly upkeep has been met.

 

The first Saturday in July is the 6th.  I assume that's what you mean?

[Jimmy]

Our current plan is to open donations at the voted time on the first Saturday of each month. For July, this will be Saturday the 7th. As usual, our donation window will automatically close as soon as the monthly upkeep has been met.

 

The first Saturday in July is the 6th.  I assume that's what you mean?

Yes. Fixed :D

[Burnt Toast]

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

[_NOPE_]

Have you all talked at all about the "queuing" suggestion that I offered previously? What I'm thinking is this.

 

• People can "pledge" a certain amount, dropping their payment information down at the same time to be withdrawn at a later time.
  
• Their pledge goes into a waiting queue, while they are informed of the ESTIMATED time/date when their pledge amount will be withdrawn from their account, based on their location in the queue and the amount that they pledged.
  
• If anything ever changes about the estimated date/time of the withdrawl, they are informed automatically via e-mail.
  
• At any point, the players can delete their pledge from the queue. The next time they want to pledge, that pledge goes at the end of the queue. If they remove their pledge from the queue, everyone else's pledges get moved up automatically.
  
• Each month, a process runs automatically that goes through the current pledges, and withdraws enough to meet the required costs.
  

 

I could assist in setting this up on the back end, if there's any issues figuring it out logistically.

 

The benefits of this are:

 

[*]Everyone can get a "chance in line" and not have to wait for a certain date/time to show up to be on the site and post a donation.

[*]People can pledge as early/late/often as they want to, and each of those pledges can count as a separate pledge instance.

[*]Homecoming has a known pool of future pledges, feeling more comfortable in its security.

[*]Homecoming doesn't have to worry about having tons of extra money on-hand that's in their coffers, all they have is "information" that COULD potentially be turned into money at some point in the future, but they can still run "lean", officially.

 

The only drawback that I can see if the concerns about Homecoming holding onto that payment information, rather than another third party vendor such as PayPal, but that could be alleviated if there was another third party company that could just hold the information and provide it to Homecoming on an as-needed basis. I don't know if such a service exists or not, but I'm sure someone else will speak up if they know about such a service.

 

What say you?

 

[Captain Fabulous]

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

 

Dude, it's not a competition. Chill out.

[Jimmy]

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

The average donation last time was just over $20. Even if we did cap it at $10, I doubt it would even be open for two hours. The rate tends to increase over time as word of mouth spreads.

 

I really do understand that it is frustrating, and hopefully in the future we can figure out a neater solution. Right now we're trying to keep it as simple as possible so we can focus our efforts towards more important tasks.

[Jimmy]

Have you all talked at all about the "queuing" suggestion that I offered previously? What I'm thinking is this.

 

• People can "pledge" a certain amount, dropping their payment information down at the same time to be withdrawn at a later time.
  
• Their pledge goes into a waiting queue, while they are informed of the ESTIMATED time/date when their pledge amount will be withdrawn from their account, based on their location in the queue and the amount that they pledged.
  
• If anything ever changes about the estimated date/time of the withdrawl, they are informed automatically via e-mail.
  
• At any point, the players can delete their pledge from the queue. The next time they want to pledge, that pledge goes at the end of the queue. If they remove their pledge from the queue, everyone else's pledges get moved up automatically.
  
• Each month, a process runs automatically that goes through the current pledges, and withdraws enough to meet the required costs.
  

 

I could assist in setting this up on the back end, if there's any issues figuring it out logistically.

 

The benefits of this are:

 

[*]Everyone can get a "chance in line" and not have to wait for a certain date/time to show up to be on the site and post a donation.

[*]People can pledge as early/late/often as they want to, and each of those pledges can count as a separate pledge instance.

[*]Homecoming has a known pool of future pledges, feeling more comfortable in its security.

[*]Homecoming doesn't have to worry about having tons of extra money on-hand that's in their coffers, all they have is "information" that COULD potentially be turned into money at some point in the future, but they can still run "lean", officially.

 

The only drawback that I can see if the concerns about Homecoming holding onto that payment information, rather than another third party vendor such as PayPal, but that could be alleviated if there was another third party company that could just hold the information and provide it to Homecoming on an as-needed basis. I don't know if such a service exists or not, but I'm sure someone else will speak up if they know about such a service.

 

What say you?

 

As far as donations go we're very much embracing KISS for the moment :)

 

We considered potentially having multiple donation windows at different times over the weekend, with the pot split between them, but even that was just taking it a bit too far. Keep in mind we're only just over two months old right now. Things will improve over time!

[RogDodge]

It's nice to see that the Fry "Shut up and take my money" meme is actually a reality for Homecoming

[Burnt Toast]

It's not about a competition.. RIF. It is about those who want to donate, but who can't make it in the 30 minute window it takes. It's about wanting to show our appreciation. Not everyone can sit by their computer waiting on a window of 30 minutes - between work and family it's just not possible. We would just like to be able to show our appreciation by being able to donate. Reading is fundamental.

 

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

 

Dude, it's not a competition. Chill out.

[Bionic_Flea]

I'd suggest two windows 1 AM UTC and 5 PM UTC.

 

That seems to cover US and EU prime time fairly well and can account for some night owls or shift workers.

 

If you cap each at half, it would also allow some folks that miss the first round to anticipate the second round.

[kaizencraft]

I'd like to sponsor some events, especially for the July 4th weekend. Would it be possible to have a Winter event enabled or something special like that? I'm not a willing host for contests but I'm a willing sponsor if the server devs, or streamers, or someone else would like to hold some small events in Atlas or anything i can throw a little cash and support at.

[justicebeliever]

It's not about a competition.. RIF. It is about those who want to donate, but who can't make it in the 30 minute window it takes. It's about wanting to show our appreciation. Not everyone can sit by their computer waiting on a window of 30 minutes - between work and family it's just not possible. We would just like to be able to show our appreciation by being able to donate. Reading is fundamental.

 

No worries Burnt Toast - I know you are appreciative, it comes through here in the forums.  But I will say, it seems like the idea of a pledge, subscription, queue, are just solutions looking for a problem.  Right now, HC is able to get all the money they need in a few hours.  Do we really want any administrative time spent building/managing/support a more complicated payment model?  And let's be fair, there is no suggestion that is less complicated than what they have right now.  I wouldn't want HC to spend less time on development, or with their family, or just playing because they have to manage a more complicated payment process.

 

And, it seemingly bears repeating - any kind of model that starts to approach a subscriber model, is going to only raise eyebrows and concerns with the IP holder.  Why poke the bear so we can feel a little better?

 

The current process is definitely "not broke", so why fix it?

 

I really don't think anyone who has been giving is feeling like others are ungrateful, so don't put that guilt on yourself.

 

 

[nyhm]

I honestly think you need to setup a Patreon or some other sort of system that people can donate to, and you post weekly of how much is sitting in this account, and if there is roll over then people can chose not to donate as much for the following month, or if they want to donate more so that they know their donation is going to last a while.

 

Whatever the solution regard timing window, it doesn't matter, as long as those who donated DONT get special perks/treatment in game because there are those of us who have wanted to donate but couldn't because you reached your maximum donation cap.

 

just my 2 cents.

[justicebeliever]

I honestly think you need to setup a Patreon or some other sort of system that people can donate to, and you post weekly of how much is sitting in this account, and if there is roll over then people can chose not to donate as much for the following month, or if they want to donate more so that they know their donation is going to last a while.

 

Whatever the solution regard timing window, it doesn't matter, as long as those who donated DONT get special perks/treatment in game because there are those of us who have wanted to donate but couldn't because you reached your maximum donation cap.

 

just my 2 cents.

 

The problem is that Patreon doesn't "turn off" when a goal is hit.  And then it'll start to look like HC is making a nice profit on this (which is what Patreon is for).  And profit off someone else's IP starts to really raise eyebrows...

 

I'm really unclear why people think this is a problem that needs solving and that you want HC to spend extra time managing

[Vyxe]

Can you perhaps just do a 1 day, track the amount of money gained, then report monthly how much of it is remaining, then when it comes near expiring, do another 1 day?

[_NOPE_]

The problem is that Patreon doesn't "turn off" when a goal is hit.  And then it'll start to look like HC is making a nice profit on this (which is what Patreon is for).  And profit off someone else's IP starts to really raise eyebrows...

 

I'm really unclear why people think this is a problem that needs solving and that you want HC to spend extra time managing

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but my reason for wanting a queue system is because I'm VERY appreciative of this chance to get my game back, my digital home. And I want to show my appreciation by supporting it, in any way I can. The inability to be here, on the site, at JUST the right moment to contribute... is frustrating. I haven't been able to give anything yet.

[White Hot Flash]

For those that can't seem to catch a donation window and would still want to contribute, is it possible for you to Paypal (or your money transfer method of choice) your donation to a friend who CAN make that window, and then they could do it for you?  At the moment, there really isn't a better solution that will satisfy everyone since they're trying to stay away from gathering too much money and garnering the wrong attention, so it's time to find other ways to satisfy your desire to help.  Maybe donate that money to a charity in CoH's name.  It seems we're complaining about there being too much money donated (which triggers the cutoff), when that should be at the bottom of things to worry about.

[justicebeliever]

The problem is that Patreon doesn't "turn off" when a goal is hit.  And then it'll start to look like HC is making a nice profit on this (which is what Patreon is for).  And profit off someone else's IP starts to really raise eyebrows...

 

I'm really unclear why people think this is a problem that needs solving and that you want HC to spend extra time managing

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but my reason for wanting a queue system is because I'm VERY appreciative of this chance to get my game back, my digital home. And I want to show my appreciation by supporting it, in any way I can. The inability to be here, on the site, at JUST the right moment to contribute... is frustrating. I haven't been able to give anything yet.

 

I get that you are appreciative PK.  At the same time, you show it all the time with the work you do for tools and other things for the community.

 

But it comes back to the question - is the personal satisfaction you'll get with donating (and let's be clear, that's all you get...I donated last month, and I didn't get, and nor expected, a thank you or a badge or anything), is that personal satisfaction worth someone of the HC team having to spend more of their own volunteer time managing that process?  Is it worth potentially incurring a C&D from NCSoft?

[_NOPE_]

Sounds like an argument for expanding the team even further to me...  As for the cease and desist... do you think a queue system where no money was exchanged, just information, would trigger that?

[justicebeliever]

Sounds like an argument for expanding the team even further to me...  As for the cease and desist... do you think a queue system where no money was exchanged, just information, would trigger that?

 

Why would you want ANYONE to volunteer their time to solve this problem so you can feel better about your giving?  It's a poor way to use a volunteer I submit.

It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  There are no funding issues right now.

 

I think it edges closer and closer to a subscription system.  If 5% of the player base (5K), pledge $25/mos, than suddenly you have a player base that's worth $1.5M...A bit more than the 300 people who are giving just enough to meet that ~$7K that HC needs each month.

 

And I want to be clear - I know everyone's heart is in the right place...so I am not calling anyone out.  Not trying to insult anyone's feelings, but that is the only problem this solves - it makes YOU feel better...

[_NOPE_]

Fair enough. It's true.

[Captain Fabulous]

Apparently it is, at least for you. Because you somehow feel cheated and not-special if you can't donate. As long as they get the money they need it doesn't matter if you personally (or anyone for that matter) gets to donate or not.

 

If you're really insistent upon giving money away, take the money you would have donated and give it to a worthwhile charity who needs it.

 

It's not about a competition.. RIF. It is about those who want to donate, but who can't make it in the 30 minute window it takes. It's about wanting to show our appreciation. Not everyone can sit by their computer waiting on a window of 30 minutes - between work and family it's just not possible. We would just like to be able to show our appreciation by being able to donate. Reading is fundamental.

 

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

 

Dude, it's not a competition. Chill out.

[ArtoriosRex]

Here's another idea which I'm using myself.

 

I've decided what I would be comfortable donating on a monthly basis indefinitely. I didn't get to donate in May so I set the amount aside. I didn't get to donate in June either so I set that aside, so when July's window opens, I will have 3 months-worth of donation committed. If I still don't make it, then August's will be 4 months, and so on until I finally get to donate, however long that takes.

[GlacialGadgeteer]

Here's another idea which I'm using myself.

 

I've decided what I would be comfortable donating on a monthly basis indefinitely. I didn't get to donate in May so I set the amount aside. I didn't get to donate in June either so I set that aside, so when July's window opens, I will have 3 months-worth of donation committed. If I still don't make it, then August's will be 4 months, and so on until I finally get to donate, however long that takes.

 

This is easily the most elegant solution to wanting to contribute exclusively to the Homecoming server. It isn't over-engineered. It doesn't create additional points of potential liability or systems to break. It doesn't require extra admin and management. It doesn't gum up the boards with personal spectacle of impatience. Perhaps most importantly, it helps extend the life of the server by saving for future costs when the quickdraw donation population inevitably starts to taper off.