Focused Feedback: Marine Affinity

[The Curator]

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New Support Powerset - Marine Affinity - Defender, Controller, Corruptor, Mastermind

• Marine Affinity allows players to command the power of the Oceans to buff their friends and wash away their enemies. This set focuses on turning the tides of battle with several area-based buffs and debuffs, specifically bolstering ally damage while dampening enemy damage potential. Thematically, the set's area coverage allows you to either spread out areas of effect in a wide but shallow pool, or dive deep in one spot to bowl over enemies.

 

 Surf & Turf is on the menu this Page! 

 

Powers:

Shoal Rush - By sensing the water in an area, you can direct a shoal of marine life to detect your foes. This lowers the defense,  movement speeds,  and stealth of all enemies struck.

 

Soothing Wave - Send forth a calming wave of water, washing over friend and foe alike. Allies will be healed by this power, while enemies will have their offensive power watered down.

 

Toroidal Bubble - You create a ring of Bubbles that encase your allies, constantly hydrating them to replenish endurance and reducing the effects of endurance drain. The bubble also reduces all incoming damage, providing extra resistance to Fire and Smashing damage, and also increases jump height thanks to added buoyancy.

 

Whitecap- Summon and ride a wave of water towards your target, crashing down to knock over all enemies in the radius and staggering them, lowering their damage resistance! Enemies close to where you crash will receive harsher debuffs for a brief time.

 

Tide Pool- Create a large pool of water at a targeted location to swell the damage that your allies deal, while reducing the damage and movement speeds of enemies within the Tide Pool. If an enemy is defeated in the pool, the marine life present will be thrown into a frenzy!

While frenzied,  the Tide Pool has a chance to knock over enemies and the damage buff and debuff is stronger.

 

Brine - You coat an enemy in an extremely salinated layer of deep-sea brine that reduces your foe's maximum hit points, and resistance to damage. The lowered resistance to damage will degrade over time to a lower value. 

 

Shifting Tides - Select a target to create a field of shifting waters around them. Enemies within the shifting waters have a chance take bonus damage when any power hits them, as well as provide you and your allies a stacking Rising Tide buff that increases ToHit, Damage, and Recharge time. The more allied players effected, the higher the odds to proc bonus damage!

 

Wellspring - Summon a Wellspring teeming with life at your target location. The Wellspring will emit an aura that washes over allies in range, providing them with a defensive cover of water that will absorb and deflect some damage.

 

Power of the Depths - Becoming a conduit of the ocean itself, you boost the max hit points and endurance of allies within range. This power will also increase the Regeneration rate of all nearby allies, while also increasing the Range of all of their powers. A portion of these effects will decay over time.

 

 Unleash the power of the ocean! 

[Shin Magmus]

     Is there a reason that Whitecap, a forced "teleport the user to a new location" power using a common ground-targeted power icon, isn't ground targeted?  Whitecap has to have an enemy selected and it forces you to move to that enemy's location.  This is inconsistent not only with the power icon, but with every other power in the game that is a teleporting attack including Shield Charge, Lightning Rod, Spring Attack, Savage Leap, etc.  Even if you wanted to go directly to the enemy: it's trivial to create a macro or keybind that performs this behavior.

 

Why?

Edited July 6 by Shin Magmus

[Shin Magmus]

     Wellspring's stat buffs have their own name in-game, which is listed as "Barrier Reef".  That's both a more clever name and a more thematic one, as Wellspring grants Absorb and Defense buffs.  It's basically Force Fielding you.  Was this power called Barrier Reef at some point and you guys changed it?  Change it back if so: Barrier Reef is genius.

Edited July 6 by Shin Magmus

[Frosticus]

Defender ATOs in shifting tides is perhaps an interesting option as I don't think they can be slotted in any other toggle powers? 

I only tried it with base ones, but I'll explore it more.

 

Whitecap mirrors the behavior of savage leap and feral charge in that it requires an enemy target to execute the teleport. Those are two of my favorite powers and in the bit I tested, I think whitecap will be too!

[Maxzero]

Just a quick look over the numbers honestly it seems extremely strong. AoE Res, Def, Rec, Regen, Range(!?), Max HP/end, Recharge, Dam and Hit buffs. Lots of -res and -damage debuffs and even some -Max HP. Will be extremely good versus purple triangles.

 

It looks to be on the same power level as Dark Affinity (IMO the best support set in the game).

 

Is Shifting Tides bonus affect limited to players team or anyone who attacks it? Pets? In raids does it stack from multiple casters?

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7 by Maxzero

[SanguineLeo]

Tide Pool says it's a toggle yet it doesn't have the "power on" swirl and the power fades after a set period of time. Is it supposed to be a ground targeted toggle or just a ground placement effect?

[Maxzero]

6 minutes ago, SanguineLeo said:

Tide Pool says it's a toggle yet it doesn't have the "power on" swirl and the power fades after a set period of time. Is it supposed to be a ground targeted toggle or just a ground placement effect?

 

Think its missing a few things. According to its description its supposed to increase the damage you do on the targets, reduce the damage they do and if an enemy falls both effects are increased.

[Decaying Rose]

Loving Marine Affinity, but the noise from Wellspring is punchy and repetitive.  Could that get toned down?

[Xandyr]

Tide Pool says it's a Toggle, but when you read the description, it's a "Click" "Location" that lasts for 4 minutes 5 seconds. The "Toggle" needs to be changed to "Click". Also, it states that Tide Pool does +Team Damage, Foe -Damage, -Speed, and -Jump. Can the values of the Foe -Damage, -Speed, and -Jump be listed? All it shows is +18% strength to all damage (Mastermind value).

 

 Thanks.

-x

 

 

[WumpusRat]

So far Marine Affinity feels a lot like Nature but ... buffed.

 

My thoughts so far playing it on a Mastermind:

 

Soothing Wave is pretty much a standard cone heal, and the -enemy damage is pretty minor (at least on a MM), so it's not a big deal.

Shoal Rush is a decent -def power, and the -stealth is kind of fun too to kick Arachnos banes and widows out of stealth.

Toroidal Bubble ... feels a bit too strong. The resists are about the same as Wild Growth from Nature, but it also gives end/recovery debuff resist, recovery, end restore, and +jump height? Seems a little bit bloated considering the power is basically perma right out of the box. 

Whitecap is essentially Spring Attack, but with a -resist debuff tacked onto it. Fairly solid power overall.

Tide Pool says it's a toggle but it's just a placeable field like Tar Patch or other things. I haven't gotten to really see the bonus damage from enemy defeats in detail yet, since all the pets firing stuff around made it a bit tough to really pinpoint, but it feels like it would be very powerful in the hands of a Defender on a team with a bunch of melees.

Brine having both a -resist and a -max hp debuff seems pretty strong, but the long cooldown feels like it balances it out. Even if the duration is basically perma on a single target.

Shifting Tides is odd in that it needs an initial target rather than just being something radiating from the caster. Interesting buff overall.

Wellspring is a bit surprising in that it follows you around. I wasn't expecting that. Makes it a LOT more powerful than I expected.

Power of the Depths is ... very powerful. In the hands of a Mastermind, VERY powerful. Bordering on too powerful. The fact that you can make it nearly perma without too much trouble (with just a thrown together build mine is about 10s off perma) and will boost the max health of your pets (!) as well, it's a very potent ability for a Mastermind. The +range on the pets is quite nice, as well. My tier-3 pet has 1500 hp with the buff up (compared to the 963 that a standard tier-3 pet has), which makes it FAR more durable. It makes the +regen much more valuable, too.

 

Overall, it feels like a VERY potent set. Will definitely need some fine tuning as time goes on. Right now it basically feels like a semi-mirror of Nature, in that it does a lot of similar things, but the tier-9 buff is defensive rather than offensive. 

[Shin Magmus]

     Yeah I appreciate the set's ability to really patch up MMs, it seems like it's probably the best mix of specific things that MMs want.  There isn't a consistent source of AoE +Max HP in the game yet so that seems to be it for MM pets. 

[WhatAHappened]

Shoal Rush on a Controller incorrectly states it accepts confuse enhancements

[Glorious]

I did some quick testing on an unoptimized ice/marine Corruptor, by running a Citadel and Aeon.

Some initial thoughts:

• Looks and sounds great
• It feels like a fresh and nice mix between cold and nature
• I love Power of the Depths and Brine
• As always, I wish burnout had a bigger impact >:|
• It's fun to zip around with Whitecap, but certain foes (like the Golden Roller etc.) can be hard to target and you get a "target blocked" message

 

Here's a short clip of me failing to activate Whitecap against the Golden Roller (target blocked). I did manage to do it a couple of times, so I guess it might be possible with better positioning on my part etc.

 

https://webm.red/view/iJfs.webm

 

 

 

[Xandyr]

Another find....

 

 When looking at your Pets' Attributes, under Defense it is showing "Barrier Reef" as giving the pets a Defense Bonus. This is actually coming from Wellspring. Either the Power "Wellspring" needs to be changed to "Barrier Reef", or in the attributes window Barrier Reef needs to be changed to show Wellspring is actually giving the bonus.

 

 Personally, I think "Barrier Reef" sounds so much cooler....so change the name Wellspring to Barrier Reef. 😎

[TygerDarkstorm]

I'm not sure if it's because I'm using monstrous parts in the character creator, but Tide Pool doesn't seem to have a casting animation when reviewing it in the character creator. I will see if I can get a video.

 

Edit: Here's a short video where I have it started on Brine which has an animation, but as you can see on Tide Pool, my character just stands there and the right hand only gets a sort of water effect on it before the power casts.

 

Edited July 7 by TygerDarkstorm
Added video

[Xandyr]

Back again....sorry.

 

 So I finally got around to putting some IOs in my Necro/Marine MM on Test. The values I'm seeing are pretty impressive. Then I started thinking.....what if I was on a team that had just 3 /Marine Affinity MMs on it, and their slotting was barely remotely similar to mine? What would that look like?

 

em/DominateEverything

em/GameBreaker

 

 Lemme explain.

   I realize that if a team of 3 MMs that all had the same Secondary Powerset, and had roughly similar slotting, it would be a sight to behold. I get that. HOWEVER, with /Marine Affinity, here's roughly what these powers would do for the pets (and the MM him/herself).

 

Tidal Forces 

   + 54% to damage

 

 Toroidal Bubble

   Roughly +84% Smashing/Fire Resistance

   Roughly 42% Resistance to everything else

 

 

Power of the Depths

   Roughly +1200 Max HP (INSANE for pets!)

   Roughly +1,100% to Regeneration

 

Brine

   -67.5% Resistance to enemy

  -1200 Max HP to enemy (and if you were running Degenerative as your Interface....holy cow)

 

Wellspring

   Roughly 300 Absorption points

 

 

 So...if  3 /Marine Affinity MMs had their pets out, then they all cast their powers, you're talking that your Henchmen would have an additional 1200 Max HP, with a 300 HP "absorb shield". They would be at the Resist cap for henchmen (if they had all the MM IOs for +Resistance). With Supremacy and running Assault, the pets would have a +90% Bonus to Damage.

  ( Granted....I actually can't remember the last time I was on a team that had 3 MMs that all had the same secondary powerset.)

 

 

 I list all that to say/ask this..... Is there a cap for Pet HP/Max HP? Damage? If so, what are said caps? I can see the Max HP cap for the actual MM (and any of the ATs in our beloved game using Mids). I can only imagine a group getting together, say a team of 3 or 4 /Marine Affinity MMs with a couple MA Defenders/Corrs....and totally annihilating everything. The potential of stacking so much Max HP,Absorb,and Regen is ridiculous. Of Course, my Willpower tank is looking forward to teaming with some Marine Affinity toons 😎  Actually, ALL of my Tanks are looking forward to teaming with Marine Affinity toons.

 

   So, IS there a cap for Henchmen for HP/Max HP?

 

 

 

 

[WumpusRat]

32 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

Power of the Depths

   Roughly +1200 Max HP (INSANE for pets!)

Bear in mind that the hp cap for pets is MUCH lower than it is for players. 

On my robotics/marine test build, my pets have:

 

Tier-1: 575 (863 with PotD)

Tier-2: 768 (1153 with PotD)

Tier-3: 963 (1445 with PotD)

 

The pets aren't going to get +1200 hp. They'll reach cap long before that. The numbers above are the hp caps for the pets.

As far as damage caps go, I BELIEVE they have +400% like most other things? I'm not 100% sure though.

 

Edited July 7 by WumpusRat

[Ukase]

This will be a somewhat incomplete assessment. Trying to test the warriors while assessing the MA secondary on an ice primary corruptor. So, my first pass, the character will only be level 25 - possibly 26 if I ouro won't give me the option to do a specific arc at 25. 
 

My first thoughts are about the animation for Toroidal Bubble. I have no idea how good or bad the power may be - but the animation is enough to skip the power. It looks pretty weird. 

Tide pool...well not sure what to think. If I were using a male avatar, I'd be looking for a urinal. It could just be the costume creator and my system having some lag or latency issues. A lot going on with my machine now. As I read another's post - I should be more clear - the only thing I see is a splash of water from the waist of my avatar. 

Brine...I'm older. I'm not the only one who's older. The icons for Brine and Tide Pool look a lot alike. I can just barely tell the difference. 

The larger white area at the bottom.., the circular arc over the top of the "explosion" vs the arc under in the other one...Maybe a different icon for one of them? 

White cap...this power took me by surprise. 
I used Tide Pool, and placed the reticle at the warriors feet - maybe 60 feet away. Then used white cap and I was instantly there, or they were where I was...pretty neat. I hadn't realized it was a self-teleport. The thing is - it automatically goes to where the target is - which I loved! I don't have to make ANOTHER macro to execute it. That is - I just target and mash the button, it fires. 
This self-teleport doesn't work like Shield Charge or Lightning Rod, nor Savage Leap. Nor Spring Attack. It's the only one that just ports you and knocks them down and does damage. It's awesome! 
That said, I don't think everyone will see that as a feature. But I do. 

If the stats for the debuffs go unchecked...this will likely replace ice/cold as the next meta corruptor. Or maybe they shouldn't stack? I dunno. They seem strong. 

 

Edited July 7 by Ukase

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

1 hour ago, WumpusRat said:

Tier-1: 575 (863 with PotD)

Tier-2: 768 (1153 with PotD)

Tier-3: 963 (1445 with PotD)

 

The pets aren't going to get +1200 hp. They'll reach cap long before that.

The wiki has this for pet MaxHP

 

"The following table lists the Base and Maximum Hit Point Caps for Mastermind henchmen:

Tier	Base HP	Max HP Cap
Tier 1 (level 48)	574.95	862.43
Tier 2 (level 49)	768.83	1153.24
Tier 3 (level 50)	963.81	1445.71"

[Videra]

On 7/6/2024 at 4:22 PM, Shin Magmus said:

     Is there a reason that Whitecap, a forced "teleport the user to a new location" power using a common ground-targeted power icon, isn't ground targeted?  Whitecap has to have an enemy selected and it forces you to move to that enemy's location.  This is inconsistent not only with the power icon, but with every other power in the game that is a teleporting attack including Shield Charge, Lightning Rod, Spring Attack, Savage Leap, etc.  Even if you wanted to go directly to the enemy: it's trivial to create a macro or keybind that performs this behavior.

 

Why?

 

Not to be pedantic, but Savage Leap does in-fact require a target.

[Xandyr]

21 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

The wiki has this for pet MaxHP

 

"The following table lists the Base and Maximum Hit Point Caps for Mastermind henchmen:

Tier	Base HP	Max HP Cap
Tier 1 (level 48)	574.95	862.43
Tier 2 (level 49)	768.83	1153.24
Tier 3 (level 50)	963.81	1445.71"

Ahhhh. See, I didn't know what the henchmen's HP cap was.

 Thanks for clarifying that.

[MirrorDarkly]

Shoal Rush is listed as taking Slow Movement sets in the Manage Enhancements screen but does not take them or basic slow enchantments.   

[Falchoin]

Looks like a fun set, though... why a cone heal? Whitecap throws you into the thick of things making you need to waste time backing out to get the most out of the heal/debuff. It feels like a set that would work well with other PBAoE heavy (or at least targeted AoE heavy) sets like Ice Control. I can't help but think it would play smoother if the heal was PBAoE as well.

[MirrorDarkly]

I've been running a Thugs/Marine MM, leveling up solo through missions.  I went AP 1-8 and just finished the first Skull arc in King's Row, taking down Chernobog at level 12.  My settings are yes to bosses and AVs, +0/x2.

 

So far the set has been fun but middle of the road in power (certainly no cold, dark or rad at this stage).  The powers tend to do a lot of things but none of them exceptionally well which I feel is the intent at this level and I can see how they whole package is likely to be extraordinarily effective, but I'm not there yet.

 

Thoughts on the powers I have tried:

Shoal Rush: Takes procs well, but as noted above is not accepting slow sets or enhancements.  The thing about this power is that it slows movement but not recharge so it doesn't help keep me alive nearly as well as say Snow Storm would, but for its cost and recharge seems okay. 

Soothing Wave: Basic cone heal, not great healing output but still much better than nothing.  Being a cone kind of conflicts with what the rest of the set wants me to be doing but it has been manageable.  The damage debuff is small enough that I don't notice it.

Toroidal Bubble: On paper this looks great but the one minute recharge/duration is kind of a pain when I don't have any global recharge or slots to spare bringing it down.  The base values are not high enough that it makes a huge difference by itself but I'll never say no to 10% damage reduction plus some help with endurance.  I imagine at higher levels I'll really appreciate the end resistance too.  Also, having increased jump height but not speed is surprisingly effective at making it feel like I'm floating at times.

Whitecap: This just feels awesome and the set became 10x more enjoyable when I unlocked it.  Again at this level Tar Patch is probably more practical but jumping in and knocking everything prone is bad ass.  Also seems to take procs very well and I could see it eventually becoming a powerhouse.

 

Given how much trouble I had with the two bosses at the end of the ambush mission was surprised that I was able to solo Chernobog as an AV so I certainly can't say it is underpowered in the early game. But I've also done that with quite a few MM (and a few other characters) and it had a rougher time than with ones that uses Dark, Cold or Rad.  As of now I'd give it a B- for effectiveness and a C for fun pre Whitecap rising to an A after I got that power. 

 

 

  

Edited July 8 by MirrorDarkly

[MirrorDarkly]

On 7/6/2024 at 4:08 PM, Shin Magmus said:

     Wellspring's stat buffs have their own name in-game, which is listed as "Barrier Reef".  That's both a more clever name and a more thematic one, as Wellspring grants Absorb and Defense buffs.  It's basically Force Fielding you.  Was this power called Barrier Reef at some point and you guys changed it?  Change it back if so: Barrier Reef is genius.

 

Agreed.  Barrier Reef is a MUCH better name and the power should be called the same thing as the buff icon.