Captain America: Brave New World

[ShardWarrior]

8 hours ago, Starhammer said:

I just don't like Falcon America as a character. Falcon who a complete superhero all on his own without getting morphed into a hybrid. Now the hybrid is something lesser than the sum of it's parts, even if it is technically more powerful. 

 

This is one of the issues I have with the Sam Wilson "taking over" as Captain America.  It reduces the character to a costume and a name, rather than the person.  It takes away from the character.

[TTRPGWhiz]

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

This is one of the issues I have with the Sam Wilson "taking over" as Captain America.  It reduces the character to a costume and a name, rather than the person.  It takes away from the character.

For sure, the implication that there just *has* to always be a Captain America is pretty weird. Like, who is clamoring for that? In-universe or out?

[BrandX]

On 3/11/2025 at 3:14 PM, Ghost said:

Let’s see….

-Jumped 20+ feet in the air while trying to fix the helicarrier

-kept a helicopter from taking off with one hand 

-ripped a log in half, with his bare hands

-held back Thanos hand

-leaps out of planes and lands safely without a parachute

 

Sorry.  I’m just not buying he is only “peak human” in the MCU

 

 

I think he worked up to pass peak human.

 

The serum made him peak human.  His constant working out, put him into low superhuman.

Edited Friday at 02:33 PM by BrandX

[Starhammer]

On 3/25/2025 at 1:00 PM, TTRPGWhiz said:

For sure, the implication that there just *has* to always be a Captain America is pretty weird. Like, who is clamoring for that? In-universe or out?

Both in and out.
In universe, "Captain America" is more of a propaganda piece than a person, at least to the governmental and military folks who claim authority over the brand.

Out of universe, well he's just popular and iconic, though I think what most people are really clamoring for is more Steve Rogers. What would be interesting is to see how audiences would react to another actor playing Steve Rogers as Captain America. Do they really want more Captain America, Steve Rogers as Captain America, Chris Evans as Steve Rogers as someone other than Captain America (like Nomad), or  just Chris Evans as Steve Rogers as Captain America?

I'd like to see a "flashback" Avengers movie (maybe under the Marvel Special Presentation or something on D+) where we have an Avengers story focused on the primary 6 (or at east the primary 4 with superpowers, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, & Hulk) getting minds and bodies swapped by some enemy, and having to show the various actors playing as different supers, see who does what well, and who does what poorly... Chris Evans as Hulk, Mark Ruffalo as Thor, Robert Downey Jr. as Captain America, and Chris Hemsworth as Iron Man for instance. They keep their original personalities, but have the other's powers and skills.

[Techwright]

4 hours ago, Starhammer said:

Both in and out.
In universe, "Captain America" is more of a propaganda piece than a person, at least to the governmental and military folks who claim authority over the brand.

Out of universe, well he's just popular and iconic, though I think what most people are really clamoring for is more Steve Rogers. What would be interesting is to see how audiences would react to another actor playing Steve Rogers as Captain America. Do they really want more Captain America, Steve Rogers as Captain America, Chris Evans as Steve Rogers as someone other than Captain America (like Nomad), or  just Chris Evans as Steve Rogers as Captain America?

 

MCU plays fast and loose with government ownership of Captain America and the shield.  My personal feeling is that the title belongs to the government, but the shield belongs to the person it is bequeathed to.  I'll not belabor that point here.

 

Personally, with Steve Rogers being my favorite MCU character, I'd clamor for more Steve Rogers.  I don't really care if it is Chris Evans or someone else playing the role so long as the other actor is selected with care.  It's a bit like Doctor Who.  It's common to say "no one can top..." and then people realize the newcomer doesn't have to.  He/she just has to be iconic in the role as well.  Since Chris Evans is a real person with real aging issue, to see an aging Steve Rogers would be interesting: how a super soldier copes when he's still super, but less so.  I think it would be wiser, though, to cast any other actor as a multi-verse alternate Steve Rogers, than to just put the actor into the same Steve Rogers role. The latter would force a comparison.  The former would allow people to accept variations in appearance and personality (the other actor's imperfect mimic of the part) as the variances of the multiverse.  I suppose one could get into another comic trope and go for cloning, choosing a young actor, say a teen, to become a Steve Rogers "clone".  That would allow for variance in personality, though they'd have to go to special makeup effects or CGI to handle visual differences.

 

It's my understanding that on-the-run, bearded Steve Rogers, first seen in Infinity Wars, was a nod at Nomad.

 

4 hours ago, Starhammer said:

I'd like to see a "flashback" Avengers movie (maybe under the Marvel Special Presentation or something on D+) where we have an Avengers story focused on the primary 6 (or at east the primary 4 with superpowers, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, & Hulk) getting minds and bodies swapped by some enemy, and having to show the various actors playing as different supers, see who does what well, and who does what poorly... Chris Evans as Hulk, Mark Ruffalo as Thor, Robert Downey Jr. as Captain America, and Chris Hemsworth as Iron Man for instance. They keep their original personalities, but have the other's powers and skills.

 

Chris Evans actually did something akin to that in his second Fantastic Four movie, when Johnny Storm and Ben Grimm got into repeated power swapping.

[PeregrineFalcon]

On 3/25/2025 at 7:58 AM, ShardWarrior said:

This is one of the issues I have with the Sam Wilson "taking over" as Captain America.  It reduces the character to a costume and a name, rather than the person.  It takes away from the character.

Isn't this exactly what happened in the comics though?

[Troo]

On 3/25/2025 at 8:58 AM, ShardWarrior said:

This is one of the issues I have with the Sam Wilson "taking over" as Captain America.  It reduces the character to a costume and a name, rather than the person.  It takes away from the character.

28 minutes ago, Techwright said:

the shield belongs to the person it is bequeathed to

 

We don't have to like it but that's the story.

1. MCU Steve Rogers handed Sam Wilson the Captain America shield in Avengers: Endgame...
   1. Wilson rejected the shield, believing he was unfit for the job of Captain America. 
   2. The U.S. government appointed its own replacement in John Walker, who went on to brutally kill one of his foes.
   3. That led Wilson to reclaim the Captain America mantle.
2.  Steve Rogers retired from heroics and left his mantle to Sam Wilson. He picked Sam.

 

Meanwhile, January 2015 (Avengers: Endgame released in 2019)

All-New Captain America #1 (legacy number: Captain America #664)

 

 

Avengers: Endgame

Old Steve Rogers : Try it on.

Sam Wilson picks up the shield.

Old Steve Rogers : How does it feel? 

Sam Wilson : Like it's someone else's. 

Old Steve Rogers : It isn't.

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

We don't have to like it but that's the story.

1. MCU Steve Rogers handed Sam Wilson the Captain America shield in Avengers: Endgame...
   1. Wilson rejected the shield, believing he was unfit for the job of Captain America. 
   2. The U.S. government appointed its own replacement in John Walker, who went on to brutally kill one of his foes.
   3. That led Wilson to reclaim the Captain America mantle.
2.  Steve Rogers retired from heroics and left his mantle to Sam Wilson. He picked Sam.

 

I am familiar with the comics in question and understand Steve Rogers turning over the shield to others is canon to the comics.  Being canon does not automatically make a story element good.  Also, you neglected to include Bucky becoming Captain America back in the day in your summary.

 

My opinion still stands - this type of thing reduces the hero to a costume that anyone can put on.  That takes away from both Steve Rogers AND Sam Wilson.  Feel free to disagree.

[ShardWarrior]

3 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Isn't this exactly what happened in the comics though?

 

Yes, as was Bucky becoming Captain America for a while.  As I said above, being canon does not automatically equal "good".  I understand that is subjective to the reader. 

[biostem]

8 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Isn't this exactly what happened in the comics though?

Sure, and in the comics, Pym created Ultron, not some weird Stark + Banner + Mind Stone conglomeration;  Similarly, Captain Mar-Vell, (or however you spell it), was much different than the person who served as Danvers' mentor in the MCU version.  Clearly they pick and choose what they adapt from the comics and what they leave behind, so saying "X is canon in the comics" has no relevance - they do w/e they want...

[BrandX]

14 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Isn't this exactly what happened in the comics though?

 

It did and it wasn't well received.