Is Beast MM any good?

[coffeeninja]

Hey there, I'm a returning player and I never got into MM but it looks fun.

 

Is Beast Mastery any good?

What skill pools and secondary works best?

 

Second MM I am interested in was Ninjas

What skill pools and secondary works best as well?

[kelika2]

Beast mastery wont ever top the charts in anything but you will be a decent boss killer

beginner: force field

intermediate: cold dom, trick arrow

advanced: traps, dark mia, thermal and sonic

 

Defense pets and a Defense or -tohit secondary are always nice combos

[evetsleep]

On 7/15/2024 at 5:05 PM, kelika2 said:

Beast mastery wont ever top the charts in anything but you will be a decent boss killer

beginner: force field

intermediate: cold dom, trick arrow

advanced: traps, dark mia, thermal and sonic

 

Defense pets and a Defense or -tohit secondary are always nice combos

Berserker: storm

[pawstruck]

Furry theme: Nature

 

(Seriously though, anything can be decent, but Nature won't compete with Cold or FF).

 

((But wtf I play a 20 year old game where I pretend to be a superhero... I do what makes sense to me))

[Razorback]

On 7/15/2024 at 1:41 PM, coffeeninja said:

Hey there, I'm a returning player and I never got into MM but it looks fun.

 

Is Beast Mastery any good?

What skill pools and secondary works best?

 

Second MM I am interested in was Ninjas

What skill pools and secondary works best as well?

 

The real question here is: what are your goals? Beasts are okay. They're fun. They're not the toughest or the most damaging, but they're mostly functional.

 

I feel like you need to make a particular commitment early on with them, though: are you here to pump damage or survival? I think Beasts are a lot more fun when played offensively, with a secondary like Kin or Storm, because they have certain strengths as damage dealers (they run fast, decent single target dps) whereas, defensively, they don't stack up to primaries like Necro, Demons or Robots.

 

So if you're trying to build a wicked solo machine pushing max difficulty, I wouldn't go Beast. You could do it, but you'll be locked into a defensive secondary and you'll be working more against the nature of your critters rather than with them. Same could be said for Ninjas, maybe even moreso in their case. You can build them tough, but I think it's way more fun with both of these primaries to just stomp the gas and redline it.

 

Sure, your dudes'll be squishy and it might get tedious resummoning if you hate that, but you'll be able to kill stuff in a much more timely manner and you'll have something to offer fast-moving teams who don't need any defensive support.

[Force Redux]

Beast/Time is pretty ridiculously good. Let's you stay in melee with the pets, keep them healed and buffed, plus the usual extras like debuffs and some control.

[evetsleep]

I think the thing I come back to is before the update that buffed some MM sets beasts were pretty decent (strong even).  That hasn't changed.  It's just that the updates really pushed some sets forward in a way that, numerically, makes beasts look worse.

 

There is something to be said about a set that is reliably in melee all the time.  That's the issue, for me, with zombies, ninjas, and to some extent thugs.  They spread out when some decide to get in close vs others are at range.  This makes a turtling MM difficult.

 

With beasts you know they'll always be in melee and so you can tutle-up there and reliably heal, buff, etc.  This is part of why beasts pairs so well with kinetics (and time, dark, cold).

 

So if you like beast have fun with it!  There is nothing wrong with them other than they don't have a new sexy mechanic to work with (yet).

[8 Ball]

Not an ideal secondary but my Beast/nature is my 2nd favorite MM (Demon/dark is 1st)  went for a "forest spirit" theme lol. They're built for melee and can take a few hits..it's nice to have pets that don't crumble right away and can put out respectable damage. There's worse options in the MM primaries. 

[TygerDarkstorm]

2 hours ago, 8 Ball said:

Not an ideal secondary but my Beast/nature is my 2nd favorite MM (Demon/dark is 1st)  went for a "forest spirit" theme lol. They're built for melee and can take a few hits..it's nice to have pets that don't crumble right away and can put out respectable damage. There's worse options in the MM primaries. 

After many of the updates that have been done, beasts are *technically* the current worst of the MM primaries. Doesn't mean they're not serviceable or won't arrest mobs or whatever.

[8 Ball]

On 7/22/2024 at 12:08 AM, TygerDarkstorm said:

After many of the updates that have been done, beasts are *technically* the current worst of the MM primaries. Doesn't mean they're not serviceable or won't arrest mobs or whatever.

 

You may be right, been a while since I've played anything other than Demon/Bots/Beast/zombie...though my Zombies were just a pain all around to level I found. 

[TygerDarkstorm]

12 hours ago, 8 Ball said:

 

You may be right, been a while since I've played anything other than Demon/Bots/Beast/zombie...though my Zombies were just a pain all around to level I found. 

In the context of CoH, beasts are still perfectly fine and fun to play, they just happen to sit at the bottom of the damage tier now that the lesser primaries got reworked. Everyone's always gonna have sets they gel with and sets they don't. 🙂 

 

To not keep derailing: Beasts work with just about any secondary, there's been a lot of good suggestions in this thread. I do recommend trying them with kinetics if you want a wild and chaotic ride lol. I think the new Marine Affinity might make a good pairing with them too.

 

In regard to ninjas, they saw a nice rework recently that helped them out a lot. These guys tend to be on the squishier side, so pair nicely with secondaries that offer them ways to stay upright. I don't have a high level ninja MM yet, so I'm not sure of specific ideas. I feel like storm would be fun. I have a ninja/nature that seems enjoyable so far as a baby. I also have a ninja/cold, but I'm undecided if I like that combo yet.

[WumpusRat]

My current favorites when it comes to Beast Mastery are:

 

Nature -- Very thematic, and a "do everything" secondary. It's got a heal, absorb shield, +damage buff, +resist buff, enemy debuffs, etc. It's an extremely powerful secondary. Provides very durable, easily-healed (since they stack up nicely on targets) pets, and the buffs (particularly from Overgrowth) can turn them into little monsters, especially if you're running Entangling Aura (particularly if you have the Lockdown +2 mag proc in it) and getting into the mix with your pets. 

 

Trick Arrow -- It has no built-in heal, so you'll either have to rely on Aid Other, or be prepared to resummon your pets a LOT. It's a "kill or be killed" secondary, with heavy debuffs. The fear aspect of a burning Oil Slick can help protect your pets a little bit, and EMP Arrow provides solid CC protection for you if you fight within it, so it can help out a lot. But your pets WILL be very fragile compared to other secondaries.

 

Thermal -- A solid all-around "do everything" set. Resist buffs, damage buffs for your pets (though Forge is only single-target, but with enough recharge you can get it on 4-5 pets easily), solid debuffs, and both an aoe and single-target heal. It's probably second to Nature in ease of play imo. However since the shields are fairly weak (+15% base for a Mastermind, so around +23% when fully slotted), the pets will still be on the squishy side. You'll have to heal them a lot. But Melt Armor will help them kill stuff quite quickly.

 

Kinetics -- A little "oddball" in terms of secondaries for a MM, since it has almost nothing to help defend your pets other than Increase Density for a bit of smashing/energy resist and end drain via Transference, but oh my god it's fun. The sheer carnage of your pets with Speed Boost and Fulcrum Shift is hilarious. Nothing can flee, and they hit like trucks. Especially combined with full stacks of Pack Mentality for the +crit bonus. Thankfully they're all melee, as well, so if you sic them on one target they'll helpfully bunch up for Transfusion. But your pets will be VERY squishy to anything but smashing damage (they have some innate smash resist, combined with ID and the +resist auras they'll be pretty sturdy against that one damage type). 

 

Dark Miasma -- Another solid "do (almost) everything" set. While it doesn't offer much in the way of resists to your pets (Shadow Fall is only energy, negative, and psi), the sheer amount of -to hit that you can stack with the set can make your pets pretty durable. You'll have to follow them into melee to get the most out of Twilight Grasp, but that's not really a bad thing, since it'll tend to drag Fluffy (the Dark Servant) along with you, and he gives a lot of -to hit as well.

 

Traps -- Your pets will basically live and die by the Force Field Generator. It provides enough +def that when combined with the +def IO auras your pets can be fairly hard to hit. The downside is that it doesn't offer much else to keep them alive. Triage Beacon is +regen instead of actual healing, and pets have fairly low max hp, so the regen it offers doesn't really cut it. However, if you use it tactically, you can survive quite a lot with a good Traps build. Lean into the Poison Trap, Seeker Drones (for the -to hit), and even Caltrops to keep the enemy from focusing the pets, and you CAN mop stuff up pretty well. But if the animals get hit, they're going to get hit HARD.

 

Overall, Beast Mastery is the bottom-tier when it comes to Mastermind sets, but that's not saying it's "bad". It's like "of all the things I really really  like, this is my least favorite, but I still love it". It's a decent set, but especially after the updates it's fallen far behind the others. Hopefully they'll get around to updating it "soon(tm)". It's been two years already, so I'm not holding out all that much hope, but we'll see. 

 

Ninjas are a slightly different animal (hur hur, pun), but in some ways very similar. They don't have the innate resists that the beasts do, but they have slightly higher base defense, so any set that capitalizes on that is solid. I haven't played as many Ninja builds as I have other sets, but the ones I've played and have worked really well are:

 

Force Field -- This is a very "boring" but safe set for the squishy ninjas. It boosts their defense high enough that very little will reliably hit them, but as it has no built-in heal you'll have to pick up the Medicine pool, or be prepared to resummon them fairly often when something connects -- because they will go SPLAT if anything bigger than a lieutenant clocks them. Once you get all the +resist auras they'll be a bit more durable, but until then, very squish. LOTS of damage though. Especially if you pick up Force Bomb and Repulsion Bolt (though I'd advise putting a knockback-to-knockdown in this one if you want to spam it for the -resist, just so it doesn't send stuff flying too much). 

 

Empathy -- While Empathy overall is a pretty "meh" set, it does work fairly well in the hands of a Mastermind, because of the fact that you always have a team with you. Fortitude, with enough recharge, can be kept permanently on all six of your ninjas, which combined with Maneuvers from Leadership and the +defense IO auras, can make your ninjas pretty hard to bring down. With huge +recovery and +regeneration auras can keep them going unless they get slapped down hard (similar to Force Field, with no innate +resist power in the set they'll die if they get slammed by something big). I wouldn't necessarily advise using Empathy, as it's finicky and REALLY needs a heavily-IO'd out build with lots of set bonuses to really capitalize on. It can be fun once you do though.

 

Traps -- Pretty much the same as for Beast Mastery with this one. 

[Redlynne]

21 minutes ago, WumpusRat said:

Ninjas are a slightly different animal (hur hur, pun), but in some ways very similar. They don't have the innate resists that the beasts do, but they have slightly higher base defense, so any set that capitalizes on that is solid.

 

Ninja/Time

 

/mic drop

[WumpusRat]

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

 

Ninja/Time

 

/mic drop

Time is a solid set, but I wouldn't rate it as one of the best when it comes to the Ninjas (or Masterminds in general, really).The fact that the pets can't benefit at all from the copious +recharge it doles out is kind of a drawback. Farsight is a solid +def buff, but that's the only buff it can really give out to the pets, and it's around the same level of +def as the FFG from Traps, but without the status protections.  I've only played it up to around 40 or so on two Masterminds, however, so take my opinion on it with a grain of salt.

[Riverdusk]

14 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

 

Overall, Beast Mastery is the bottom-tier when it comes to Mastermind sets, but that's not saying it's "bad". It's like "of all the things I really really  like, this is my least favorite, but I still love it". It's a decent set, but especially after the updates it's fallen far behind the others. Hopefully they'll get around to updating it "soon(tm)". It's been two years already, so I'm not holding out all that much hope, but we'll see. 

 

 

 

I'd just nit pick on the word "far" behind the other sets.  I'd say more like slightly behind.  The MM primaries are closer balanced by far than they have ever been now.  What I considered "far" behind is what mercs used to be before their buff.  

 

I have a beast/cold myself that seems to compete fairly well with any of my other MM's, although can't say I'm one to crunch the numbers or run trapdoor time trials or anything.

[Riverdusk]

12 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

Time is a solid set, but I wouldn't rate it as one of the best when it comes to the Ninjas (or Masterminds in general, really).The fact that the pets can't benefit at all from the copious +recharge it doles out is kind of a drawback. Farsight is a solid +def buff, but that's the only buff it can really give out to the pets, and it's around the same level of +def as the FFG from Traps, but without the status protections.  I've only played it up to around 40 or so on two Masterminds, however, so take my opinion on it with a grain of salt.

 

Interesting, I always recommend /time as a secondary for new MM players when they ask for a suggestion and I think it works great for any primary.  I find it is one of the strongest sets, and definitely one of the easiest sets to play.  It's +recharge might not help, but it has solid defense (and -tohit), solid control, and strong AoE healing.  Also a ton of -recharge which is a great "defense" of its own for MM pets.  You can actually stack distortion fields, which I find a bit crazy.   Farsight also has +tohit and benefits from power boost (unlike FFG), so it actually has a bigger potential than FFG by a decent amount.

 

Then there's its movement slows. I think especially for newbie MM's one of the most common times for things to go sideways is when mobs run off and scatter which then causes your henchmen to scatter after them if you aren't quick to control them.  All the slows keep things nice and bunched and controlled, both the enemies and the henchmen.   Creates one of the smoother mastermind experiences.

 

I know thugs/time was a FOTM around here at one point for how strong it was considered although I think that has faded now since thugs weren't included in the last round of buffs.  

 

Edit: And back to the OP, I would recommend a beast/time, would make a great MM for a first timer.  I had one and found it very good.

Edited July 25 by Riverdusk

[UltraAlt]

I don't know if you are planning on going directly to the end-game or if you intent to play the game and level up the character.

That really has a huge impact on the kind of response you are looking for.

 

On 7/15/2024 at 4:41 PM, coffeeninja said:

Is Beast Mastery any good?

What skill pools and secondary works best?

 

Second MM I am interested in was Ninjas

What skill pools and secondary works best as well?

 

I like all the mastermind pets except the demons. They are just too noisy. If I make one of those, I go petless and level up the whip only and generally xp lock them once I six slot all the whip powers.

 

Secondary-wise, my favorite up until now has been electric, but marine looks like it will give electric a run for the money, but I haven't tried it out enough to be totally sure.

Of course, electric really works thematically better with Robots or Zombies.

For me, marine only works thematically with Beast Mastery, so I made one of those. ( ... but, if I could color customize the ninja outfits to blue ....)

 

The reason I'm fond of those two sets is because I usually turtle up and both sets are great for keeping pets healed up (essentially they act as  your armor and attacks at the same time and your character mainly makes sure that the henchmen are healed and buffed).

 

For Ninjas, I usually end up with going for kinetic.

 

I have one Beast Mastery mastermind with trick arrow and another with empathy. The trick arrow on one is fun to play, but I have to respawn the henchmen more frequently.

[Rockhiem]

Give Marine a good look for Beast. With all the pets in mele the buffs stack to the sky from tide pool, shifting tides and barrier reef.