Threat Duration IOs for Proc Bombs?

[ThatGuyCDude]

So... because of PokeVoke (Fury's taunt effect), Brutes have the interesting phenomenon of being able to slot Threat Duration into LOTS of their Primary and Secondary powers (pretty much all of them).  This lets you slot Threat sets in strange places, which gives additional access to Psionic Damage procs and Stun procs.

When I mentioned this in general chat one night, other players were surprised that this was possible... so it's either new or something nobody's ever bothered with.  At the moment I'm trying to use two-set Triumphant Insults to proc stuns and score extra recovery, in search of some kind of Brute scrap-troller unique archetype identity (I'm running Savage/Dark and I'm stacking controls with Fears, IO stuns, and Knockdowns... I can even get up to a Mag 6 fear using the Presence pool).  I'm wondering, though... has anybody else done any frankenslotting with Threat Duration sets on a Brute?  Does access to Psionic damage help on a proc bomb power, or is it mostly a throwaway feature?

[Glacier Peak]

If I'm not getting 90% (capped) proc chances, slotting the proc in the power is a waste. I'm pretty sure just by looking at your screenshot, those procs aren't going to be firing very much. 

 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

Keep in mind the Triumphant Insult % to stun proc is a 2PPM for a 3 second mag 1 stun.  In and of itself, that's pretty useless.  However, if you are running other stun (I'm thinking particularly Oppressive Gloom from Dark Armor), you can stack mag.  Even so, that's pretty useless.

[Hedgefund]

It wasn't terribly uncommon on the retail servers to slot Mocking Beratement in Brute ST attacks for fire farming in AE.  It has fire def and 7.5% recharge

 

I had an SS/Fire I used for fire farming back then and I stole the build from the forums, so using these sets for a brute (or tank) goes way back.  

[ThatGuyCDude]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Keep in mind the Triumphant Insult % to stun proc is a 2PPM for a 3 second mag 1 stun.  In and of itself, that's pretty useless.  However, if you are running other stun (I'm thinking particularly Oppressive Gloom from Dark Armor), you can stack mag.  Even so, that's pretty useless.

Aw man, it's only a Mag 1?  Dang, I thought all the procs were Mag 2.  Guess I could switch those for Mocking Beratements for the extra proc damage, or even Pounding Slugfest since I just checked City of Data and at least those are Mag 2 stuns.  I was wondering why I wasn't seeing any stuns between Fear phases... of course I wouldn't if they typically only work on minions.  Oof, even the Control Hybrid incarnate that boosts magnitudes wouldn't help with that... what a waste.

Well, looks like I'll be doing some aggressive re-slotting!  Thanks for the info, everybody.
(Really wish that these enhancements would list the magnitude of their effects in the description!)

[tidge]

I don't roll with Brutes, but I have played with Threat Duration in some Tankers... and for Tankers, since I was always (long before the Homecoming tweaks to Tankers) taking a 6-slotted Taunt I found that I didn't need extra efforts from anything else.

 

Words of caution about %procs in auras: The %proc rate will be low because of the way "ticks" happen for auras. Also, the proc itself requires a ToHit check based on the power (not the character) so if an aura doesn't take Accuracy slotting (or doesn't have accuracy from a set that it can slot) this will further hinder any procs. This is one of the reasons I gripe about general lack of accuracy options in Threat sets... the main complaint of mine is that there are threat powers that actually require ToHit checks!

[arcane]

On 8/17/2024 at 6:17 PM, Glacier Peak said:

If I'm not getting 90% (capped) proc chances, slotting the proc in the power is a waste. 

That would mean you don’t slot procs in Freeze Ray or Bitter Ice Blast, which I don’t believe from an experienced player?

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

That would mean you don’t slot procs in Freeze Ray or Bitter Ice Blast, which I don’t believe from an experienced player?

Yeah, you're right - it is more nuanced than my reply conveyed. I slot two Level 53 acc/dmg DSOs, then four damage procs in those two powers. 

[SeraphimKensai]

On 8/21/2024 at 12:56 AM, ThatGuyCDude said:

Aw man, it's only a Mag 1?  Dang, I thought all the procs were Mag 2.  Guess I could switch those for Mocking Beratements for the extra proc damage, or even Pounding Slugfest since I just checked City of Data and at least those are Mag 2 stuns.  I was wondering why I wasn't seeing any stuns between Fear phases... of course I wouldn't if they typically only work on minions.  Oof, even the Control Hybrid incarnate that boosts magnitudes wouldn't help with that... what a waste.

Also that use case Yomo mentioned of stacking stun mag with Oppressive Gloom, slotting a Triumphant Insult chance to stun proc would only result in a 17.54% chance to proc, which is like rolling a six sided die and trying to get a 6 every time.

[ThatGuyCDude]

While a dice roll's true for a single proc, having 'em in a bunch of different powers would increase that probability (three attacks would make it like a coin flip each rotation).  The idea was to chance for a consistent bonus control, a happy mitigation every few attacks.  With Oppressive Gloom running, that would make regular attacks on a focused boss target have a chance to spread the stun.  I already do this with fears using the Presence pool and Cloak of Fear (can even fear Elite Bosses, or ArchVillains when they don't have their purple arrows of doom up), but that's dependent on Mag 2s from three sources.  If Triumphant Insult and Unspeakable Terror had been Mag 2s, I could've chanced a similar outcome from them, Pounding Slugfest, and Oppressive Gloom, but no such luck... having to use that many slots to chance stacking Mag 1s up from 4 to 6 (when they only last 3 seconds instead of 8 ) just isn't worth it.

Edited August 22 by ThatGuyCDude

[WuTang]

On 8/22/2024 at 1:46 PM, ThatGuyCDude said:

While a dice roll's true for a single proc, having 'em in a bunch of different powers would increase that probability (three attacks would make it like a coin flip each rotation). 

 

That's not how it works. Each ability has its own chance of proc'ing the stun, the chances are not cumulative. If you've ever converted enhancements, same thing.

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, WuTang said:

Quote

Quote

 slotting a Triumphant Insult chance to stun proc would only result in a 17.54% chance to proc

having 'em in a bunch of different powers would increase that probability (three attacks would make it like a coin flip each rotation)

That's not how it works. Each ability has its own chance of proc'ing the stun, the chances are not cumulative. If you've ever converted enhancements, same thing.

I mean... that's kind of how combining probability chances works...



Although 43.9% likelihood isn't quite a 1 in 2, so perhaps the coin in question is a smidge weighted towards one side? 

[WuTang]

2 hours ago, Maelwys said:

I mean... that's kind of how combining probability chances works...



Although 43.9% likelihood isn't quite a 1 in 2, so perhaps the coin in question is a smidge weighted towards one side? 

M-kay every calculator I've found only has a 35% chance for binomial but a ~40%+ chance for cumulative. So with 3 bites at the apple he only doubles his chance of getting 1 stun per rotation. Still doesn't feel worth it.

Edited September 11 by WuTang

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, WuTang said:

M-kay every calculator I've found only has a 35% chance for binomial but a ~40%+ chance for cumulative. So with 3 bites at the apple he only doubles his chance of getting 1 stun per rotation. Still doesn't feel worth it.

It's only 3 trials so you can just back-of-handkerchief it manually.

If chance of X occurring is 17.54%, then chance of X NOT occurring is 82.46%
Given 3 "chances", that's 0.8246^3 = 0.560699270936 chance of X not occurring... which gives (1-0.560699270936)=43.93% chance for X to occur at least once.

As to whether a 43.93% average likelihood of at least one Stun to kick in per rotation is worth it or not...?
Personally I'd vote not; but I don't like the idea of relying on mitigation that assumes you'll never get an unlucky streak.
(And it doesn't help that CoH has a notoriously spotty history whenever it comes to streakbreakers...)

 

Edited September 11 by Maelwys

[WuTang]

17 hours ago, Maelwys said:

It's only 3 trials so you can just back-of-handkerchief it manually.

If chance of X occurring is 17.54%, then chance of X NOT occurring is 82.46%
Given 3 "chances", that's 0.8246^3 = 0.560699270936 chance of X not occurring... which gives (1-0.560699270936)=43.93% chance for X to occur at least once.

As to whether a 43.93% average likelihood of at least one Stun to kick in per rotation is worth it or not...?
Personally I'd vote not; but I don't like the idea of relying on mitigation that assumes you'll never get an unlucky streak.
(And it doesn't help that CoH has a notoriously spotty history whenever it comes to streakbreakers...)

 

RNG is NOT my friend either lol