Toggling Group Fly options

[Doctor Duck]

Greetings!

 

I love using the Group Fly power on my masterminds, but it can cause some conflict anytime I join a team. People either forget to turn it off (and the mission is already going), or simply refuse to visit the Null Gull to do it, and so you get into a cycle of not using the power at all. So, I'm wondering, is it possible to make this feature into a macro, where people can run something like “/GroupFlyOff 0” and “/GroupFlyOff 1”?

 

A macro option like that could change the power from being a point of friction (turn it on in any group, and at least once person is going to get mad), into something useful and enjoyable. 

 

Additional: I now understand the macro option has lots of complications, so how about a prestige power that allows you to summon a limited version of the null gull, which allows you to toggle GF or TP options?

Edited August 23 by Doctor Duck

[Rudra]

Group Fly can only be blocked from affecting a character by Null the Gull by Null granting that character a hidden power. That was the only way the devs found to be able to do that. And I sincerely doubt the current devs will allow us to simply slash command ourselves a power. (I'm not even sure that could even work in this game.)

[Lunar Ronin]

Sadly, no.  As Rudra explained, it's a power granted by Null the Gull, not a command.

 

My suggestion is to do what I do: Lead teams.  If someone that joins complains about your use of Group Fly, explain how it can be disabled.  If he or she keeps complaining, /kick

[Doctor Duck]

Yeah, I posted this in discord as well, and I get the macro complication now. But I'm wondering if you could summon a limited version of null gull with a prestige power, which would allow players to adjust GF and TP setting then and there. If the power is granted by an NPC, that seems like a reasonable option maybe?

[Rudra]

This has been addressed too. Null won't be made available anywhere other than where he already is.

[Doctor Duck]

It doesn't need to be the actual Null Gull though. I get why you don't want people changing alignment and things like that from any place in CoH. But, if the hidden power to disable GF and TP can only be granted by an NPC, couldn't you have a summonable NPC (i'll pay millions for that prestige power 🙂 ) that allows you to toggle just GF and TP settings? 

Edited August 23 by Doctor Duck

[srmalloy]

I don't know how it would affect things like execrable pathing getting pets stuck on the map geometry, but it would make for an interesting way to manage pets and travel powers for a character's travel power to automatically 'spread' to pets within a range limit, so that they would (theoretically) be able to keep up with you, with Group Fly being specifically defined to affect other players as well. So if a Mastermind wanted their henchmen to be able to fly with them, they would only have to take Fly or Mystic Flight, and only take Group Fly if they wanted to bring their team along. For many MMs, this would free up a power choice; the disablement by Null would still be needed because we wouldn't be removing the power from the game.

[Jacktar]

Hi, probably an obvious reason that I cannot work out but why cannot the default be that affected by Group Fly group fly is off and you go to Gull to enable it?

Then the Mm’s and few other players that want GF to affect others(their pets) would be the ones to do the visit and not the much larger lump of the player base.

Cheers

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

I don't know how it would affect things like execrable pathing getting pets stuck on the map geometry, but it would make for an interesting way to manage pets and travel powers for a character's travel power to automatically 'spread' to pets within a range limit, so that they would (theoretically) be able to keep up with you, with Group Fly being specifically defined to affect other players as well. So if a Mastermind wanted their henchmen to be able to fly with them, they would only have to take Fly or Mystic Flight, and only take Group Fly if they wanted to bring their team along. For many MMs, this would free up a power choice; the disablement by Null would still be needed because we wouldn't be removing the power from the game.

This would remove the reason for Group Fly and Team Teleport. They are meant to affect your team, and your pets are part of your team. They just happen to be team members you don't need to recruit. I don't know any non-MMs that still take Group Fly or Team Teleport, not even Controllers or Dominators, because other PCs take some form of travel power. Even if that travel power is a START purchased jet pack or other type. Bear in mind, MMs do not need to take Group Fly or Team Teleport either, and their pets will still (more or less) keep up with them as they race across the zone.

 

41 minutes ago, Jacktar said:

Hi, probably an obvious reason that I cannot work out but why cannot the default be that affected by Group Fly group fly is off and you go to Gull to enable it?

Then the Mm’s and few other players that want GF to affect others(their pets) would be the ones to do the visit and not the much larger lump of the player base.

Cheers

Because that takes away the main purpose of Group Fly. It is there so that Player A can provide the other players on the team with the ability to get around the zone if they lack it. So it is an opt out rather than an opt in.

[biostem]

23 hours ago, Doctor Duck said:

It doesn't need to be the actual Null Gull though. I get why you don't want people changing alignment and things like that from any place in CoH. But, if the hidden power to disable GF and TP can only be granted by an NPC, couldn't you have a summonable NPC (i'll pay millions for that prestige power 🙂 ) that allows you to toggle just GF and TP settings? 

As explained here, under "Historical", it's no simple matter to integrate Null's functions into other areas of the game.  It's not that people don't want these features made more readily available, so please stop characterizing things this way...

[Doctor Duck]

4 hours ago, srmalloy said:

I don't know how it would affect things like execrable pathing getting pets stuck on the map geometry, but it would make for an interesting way to manage pets and travel powers for a character's travel power to automatically 'spread' to pets within a range limit, so that they would (theoretically) be able to keep up with you, with Group Fly being specifically defined to affect other players as well. So if a Mastermind wanted their henchmen to be able to fly with them, they would only have to take Fly or Mystic Flight, and only take Group Fly if they wanted to bring their team along. For many MMs, this would free up a power choice; the disablement by Null would still be needed because we wouldn't be removing the power from the game.

Yep, thats exactly why I use Group Fly on my masterminds. With Group Fly on, I can actually keep up with the team... otherwise, i'm constantly waiting for pets to catch up, or hoping they TP to me in time. I find that pet navigation is actually better when Group Fly is on as well. That would be amazing if you could share travel powers with your pets, and would definitely solve the issue.

[Doctor Duck]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

As explained here, under "Historical", it's no simple matter to integrate Null's functions into other areas of the game.  It's not that people don't want these features made more readily available, so please stop characterizing things this way...

Yeah, I get that it might be difficult to do, which is why I thought I would bring it up for discussion. But at the moment IMO, the power is difficult to enjoy, unless you want to have an argument with at least one person on almost every team you join. I only mention Null Gull because its the only way you can do it at the moment. My thought was it could be a different summonable NPC with limited options, if full Null Gull would cause problems (and I can see were it could).

 

Sorry if this thread came off as dismissive or "this should be super easy", it was not meant to be. Its a 20 year old game engine being managed by volunteers, I understand the limitations of that.

Edited August 24 by Doctor Duck

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, Doctor Duck said:

But, it could certainly be some other NPC with limited options on it.

No disrespect, but this is the problem - No, it couldn't "certainly be some other NPC with limited options on it" - at least, not with the limited volunteer dev team we have currently, and not with a full paid dev team back on live.  Obviously, it's not impossible to implement what you're asking for, but it just isn't feasible with how things stand, ATM...

[Doctor Duck]

41 minutes ago, biostem said:

No disrespect, but this is the problem - No, it couldn't "certainly be some other NPC with limited options on it" - at least, not with the limited volunteer dev team we have currently, and not with a full paid dev team back on live.  Obviously, it's not impossible to implement what you're asking for, but it just isn't feasible with how things stand, ATM...

Understood, but again... I don't think anyone has implied "it would be super easy", or anything along the lines of "why isn't this done already". This is a suggestion forum... and we're making suggestions.  A simple solution can sometimes come from just discussing a problem. 

 

There's also a history of the topic coming up, and I probably wont be the last one to bring it up either. Now, I have seen responses along the lines of "this is doable but difficult", and I'm sure the talented team of volunteers have solved plenty of difficult issues (your efforts are greatly appreciated). So, what we're really talking about is if its worth the effort to fix. If the ultimate answer is "No, its not worth the time and effort to fix this in any possible way, shape, or form", that's fine... again, these are just suggestions. 

[PoptartsNinja]

The issue with Null is: you can't change that setting while in a TF because Null won't talk to you if you're in a TF.

If Null would make an exception, I'd be a little less grumpy about the current setup.

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, PoptartsNinja said:

The issue with Null is: you can't change that setting while in a TF because Null won't talk to you if you're in a TF.

If Null would make an exception, I'd be a little less grumpy about the current setup.

Yeah, it would be nice if being on a TF/SF didn't lock you out of talking to him, but I also get why it does because of the other things he can do.

[tidge]

16 hours ago, Doctor Duck said:

There's also a history of the topic coming up, and I probably wont be the last one to bring it up either.

 

Sad but true.

[Communistpenguin]

I mean, I feel like the easiest solution to this would just be to grant all pets the fly ability, and just have it auto activate if the players flight is activated. Yes, it removes the point of group fly, but as it is I might as well not even have group fly. It is situational to begin with, and you are pretty much guaranteed to have someone ask you to turn it off whenever you are in a team setting. 

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, Communistpenguin said:

I mean, I feel like the easiest solution to this would just be to grant all pets the fly ability, and just have it auto activate if the players flight is activated. Yes, it removes the point of group fly, but as it is I might as well not even have group fly. It is situational to begin with, and you are pretty much guaranteed to have someone ask you to turn it off whenever you are in a team setting. 

I wonder if it's even possible to have any travel power a MM takes to also apply to their minions...

[Rudra]

19 minutes ago, biostem said:

I wonder if it's even possible to have any travel power a MM takes to also apply to their minions...

...

 

Again, this would end any remaining call for Group Fly. Aside from finding out you forgot to enable that option when you arrive for a Hami' raid and racing to Null is likely to get you locked out of the zone, is it really that much of a problem to go "Whoops, I forgot to talk to Null about that", pop in to Pocket D, have Null give your character the hidden power, and then rejoin your team?

 

Edited August 26 by Rudra
Edited to correct "forget" to "forgot".

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Again, this would end any remaining call for Group Fly. Aside from finding out you forgot to enable that option when you arrive for a Hami' raid and racing to Null is likely to get you locked out of the zone, is it really that much of a problem to go "Whoops, I forgot to talk to Null about that", pop in to Pocket D, have Null give your character the hidden power, and then rejoin your team?

I'm pretty sure group fly existed before MMs did, therefore it is not/was not the only use for that power.  

[Communistpenguin]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

...

 

Again, this would end any remaining call for Group Fly. Aside from finding out you forgot to enable that option when you arrive for a Hami' raid and racing to Null is likely to get you locked out of the zone, is it really that much of a problem to go "Whoops, I forgot to talk to Null about that", pop in to Pocket D, have Null give your character the hidden power, and then rejoin your team?

 

Yes, it really is a big deal to make other players go to null the gull. They will not do it, they will just ask you not to use your power.

[Rudra]

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'm pretty sure group fly existed before MMs did, therefore it is not/was not the only use for that power.  

After the jet packs became available for purchase, the calls for Group Fly and Team Teleport progressively went away. Now everyone can have a travel power, even flight, without having to devote a power pick to it. That's at least part of the reason why the Taxibot SG fell apart. No one needed them any more to help them get around zones like the Hollows since they could just buy a jet pack and be done. After the ease of non-power pick travels availability, the only use I ever see for Group Fly and Team Teleport are the MMs to get their pets around. So yes, Group Fly predates MMs by a lot, but the current circumstances render that point moot.

 

8 minutes ago, Communistpenguin said:

Yes, it really is a big deal to make other players go to null the gull. They will not do it, they will just ask you not to use your power.

And just like I tell others on these forums, they don't get to impose their preference on you. If after you tell them how they can be never affected by Group Fly ever again they still choose to remain there and be affected, that's on them. The only consideration I give for that is a Hami' raid because of the high probability of the zone filling while they are doing so. In which case, just move out of affective range from them.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I wonder if it's even possible to have any travel power a MM takes to also apply to their minions...

Not just Masterminds; for most of the pet classes, you get to stand around waiting after a fast run/fly/jump to a new location for your pet(s) to deign to catch up with you, although it's objectively worse for MMs, since the whole AT is built around their pets being the majority of their damage output.

[Wavicle]

My preferred solution would be that when someone on your team is running Group Fly, INSTEAD of simply putting you in the air, the power grants YOU a Flight Toggle on your Server Tray that you can toggle on and off as desired.