City of Heroes 2: elctricboogaloo

[malonkey1]

1.) Move away from AT's and let people choose whatever powers, BUT with some balancing effect (IDK what that would look like)

CO has that. Doesn't really work.

 

While City of Titants is still in the slow-going development stages, it is doing something kind of interesting with its archetypes that feels like a compromise with this. Basically, each Archetype has three classification sub-archetypes (the former determining primaries, and the latter secondaries). For example, their Mastermind Equivalent would be an Brigadier (Pets/Support), alongside the Taskmaster (Pets/Assault) and Ringleader (Pets/Manipulation), and then basically letting you choose your Inherent out of three for each archetype, and effectively building your own archetype from those three things.

 

[WumpusRat]

One thing I'd love to see in CoX-2 would be a revamped alignment system.

 

Instead of just picking to start a hero, or a villain, you would start out neutral, as an unknown vigilante. As you did missions (either heroic or villainous) you'd start getting a reputation as either side. As you gained more rep as a hero, you'd start getting bigger and more important missions, invited to join superhero groups (kind of like the little Shining Stars story arc early on), and the like. As a villain, you'd be approached by villainous organizations wanting to hire you as muscle, or to do jobs for them, and eventually you'd gain enough infamy to start up your own villainous organization (if you so desire), etc.

 

Either side COULD choose to dabble in missions that would sway them towards the other side. For instance a villain might choose to stop a bank robbery (perhaps for nefarious reasons), or a hero could pull something shady (the ends justify the means, perhaps), and their reputation would shift. Instead of just "do 10 alignment missions and you can change", the severity of what you did would determine how much rep/infamy you'd gain/lose. If you were a true, noble hero, pulling something really black-hearted and evil would make you lose more points than something simple, for instance. Or if you were a mustache-twirling scoundrel, doing heroic deeds would make other villains start to see you as a traitor, or a hero in disguise.

 

You could come up with all sorts of alignment missions that would depend on drifting one way or another, have factions react to you based on your standing (and how it's shifting), etc.

 

Could be a lot of fun.

[Kid_Eclipse]

So, just for the sake of discussion, what would you want to see if a city of heroes 2 were made?

 

A few ideas off the top of my head:

Deeper, explorable water (with reasons to explore it)

Minion customization

More body type options

 

A mission difficulty system balanced around harder objectives, better AI, multiple goals, etc. rather than massive spawns of +4 purple minions.

Most of the time I don't feel heroic, I feel like a war criminal.

 

[Mr. Vee]

tldr but i support the title

[pattycake]

On the top of my head. I to unlock content, and complain not having done so  ::). One of my proudest achievements was unlocking SoA, and I constantly complained not being able to be PB/WS, it was a love hate. Having to achieve something in order to enable access to more features is my all-time favourite part about MMos. There is; of course, the downside of having to do it for hundreds of characters you immediately want to slap on a aura/cape, though actually having* to put work into it was a real motivation boosting.

 

Dynamic-wise, I say this unselfishly as possible with good intentions, from what I experience in other mmos I still play today. I'd like to see features that would help me identify others who share the same interests as me, and ridiculous challenge-modes as an option from the very start. Such as a flag for: Street Cleaner (This flag will disable exp/inf gains from all missions) forcing that particular player to take it to the streets all the way to 50 (variables include disabled exp/inf when in party with a non-Street-Cleaner) And with it comes a unique Street Cleaner shiny badge when dinged 50. These ideas interest me the most.

 

[Jeuraud]

While City of Titants is still in the slow-going development stages, it is doing something kind of interesting with its archetypes that feels like a compromise with this. Basically, each Archetype has three classification sub-archetypes (the former determining primaries, and the latter secondaries). For example, their Mastermind Equivalent would be an Brigadier (Pets/Support), alongside the Taskmaster (Pets/Assault) and Ringleader (Pets/Manipulation), and then basically letting you choose your Inherent out of three for each archetype, and effectively building your own archetype from those three things.

 

 

This is what would make me leave CoH, for CoH2, as long as this

 

Nc soft never gets to even look at it.

 

was also a part of CoH2. I know of at least 3 western MMOs they have shut down.

 

I check out SoH every so often but one of the things that keeps me from investing in it is that the ATs are pretty much the same as CoH (Not sure how CoHH is going to affect it.), which I've had issues with since the release of CoH (Even before I faced FrostFire.). I would like to play a Melee primary with a Support secondary, or maybe a Melee primary with a Pets Summons secondary, or... uh, I think my alttitist got away from me  :).

 

Anyways, I think a MA/Kin Brute would be absolutely cool. Hells, FrostFire and Statesman got to mix power sets why cant I?

[srmalloy]

I play a lot of tabletop RPGs (probably like many of us). I've found that in most games where you just pick "powers" from a universal list, most players quickly figure out what the best ones are and everyone just ends up with those. Class-based games (like CoH) force you to take the good with the bad, which broadens the play experience and allows players to feel like they have some kind of distinct role in a team.

 

The only remaining way being to make the power effects generic, with the visual effect being entirely cosmetic, so while you may shoot an ice blast while your teammate shoots a fire blast, and while yours tossed a spray of ice shards around on a hit while his burst in a brief cascade of flame, the result to the target is the same. And then it gets boring.

[EggKookoo]

The only remaining way being to make the power effects generic, with the visual effect being entirely cosmetic, so while you may shoot an ice blast while your teammate shoots a fire blast, and while yours tossed a spray of ice shards around on a hit while his burst in a brief cascade of flame, the result to the target is the same. And then it gets boring.

 

You just described Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition.

[THEDarkTyger]

1.) Move away from AT's and let people choose whatever powers, BUT with some balancing effect (IDK what that would look like)

CO has that. Doesn't really work.

 

That's because they do it horribly.

[Nathanor]

1. Voice acting, trying to read the newer quests is very annoying.

2. Have a nemesis.

3. Have any name you want.

4. Have one of your own heroes be your sidekick.

5. Torturer chambers for your villains or vigilant.

6. Being able you raid your own superhero's base as your villain.

7. Cause mayhem in what ever city I want when ever I want.

8. Have your own heroes standing or sitting around your super base.

9. Call 7 other of your own heroes to help you.

10. Freeform, have any power you want, Champions did a great job with it.

11. 1 power with no cool down.

12. Better looking Villain zones.

[Burnt Toast]

LOL Good luck with that.....

 

City of Titans is pretty much want i want out of a COH2

[Blastit]

As a baseline I would want the code to be made from the start to be easily changed. Building it to be sensible from a longer-term perspective would save a lot of work.

 

 

Other than that, well...

 

 

Seasons would be cool. More things to interact with and do missions for or about in the city, like stopping a convenience store robbery or working at a youth community center. Vehicles would be sweet. A more advanced costume creator with more colours per piece, more possible locations to place pieces and with more body types and stances. Face customisation with more granularity than Face 1, Face 2 etc. Picking a voice would also be cool.

 

Creating your own nemesis or rogue's gallery would be fun, but I think it'd be even better to be able to personalise rivalries with existing factions.

[EggKookoo]

1. Voice acting, trying to read the newer quests is very annoying.

2. Have a nemesis.

3. Have any name you want.

4. Have one of your own heroes be your sidekick.

5. Torturer chambers for your villains or vigilant.

6. Being able you raid your own superhero's base as your villain.

7. Cause mayhem in what ever city I want when ever I want.

8. Have your own heroes standing or sitting around your super base.

9. Call 7 other of your own heroes to help you.

10. Freeform, have any power you want, Champions did a great job with it.

11. 1 power with no cool down.

12. Better looking Villain zones.

 

TBH I'd /JRanger about half of these...

[Replacement]

- Consolidation of some of the more boring powers. Example: 3 powers for 3 different sword attacks?  How about 1 power purchase that throughout your career gets cd reset and effect mechanics. Maybe you can attack 3 times before it goes on cooldown, with each of the 3 hits having different animations and effects

....tl;dr on the above. Buy 1 attack power that is actually a combo. Remove boring "attack chain filler."

 

- More and stronger power pools.  It's so year-2000 to have to take Kick just to get to the power I will actually use. Power pools should be nearly/as good as AT powers, and create the true way to "ascend" your AT.

 

-A little more contentious but uhhhh... I kind of hate AT modifiers.  Why can't my scrapper be a good leader? Before you say "that would break the game," understand the game was built with them in mind and underwent a decade of balance adjustments under that premise. If we're talking CoH2, I say ditch the AT modifiers from the get-go and tune accordingly.

 

*** People saying "classless doesn't work because CO.". STOP THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER. Lots of fun tabletops use a similar approach and manage to not fall into the same pitfalls that people in this thread take as inevitable. 

That said, I suggest you guys take a look at Path of Exile's method: 7 classes that are better described as 7 "career starting points."

In fact, CoH has Spines/Fire and PoE has no equivalent build. That is the epitome of "everyone will end up with one of these" because it's criminally useful.

And that's why I suggest smaller but better primaries/secondaries and a much larger emphasis on power pools.  8)

 

[jack_nomind]

That said, I suggest you guys take a look at Path of Exile's method: 7 classes that are better described as 7 "career starting points."

In fact, CoH has Spines/Fire and PoE has no equivalent build. That is the epitome of "everyone will end up with one of these" because it's criminally useful.

And that's why I suggest smaller but better primaries/secondaries and a much larger emphasis on power pools.  8)

 

You know, I absolutely remember there being a handful of top-tier builds in PoE when I played.  Specifically one with some kind of like, thrown axe spamming spell build, or something.  But that was a while ago, so I went to look it up and find that not only did they move towards a more class-based system by limiting certain skills to certain Ascendancies, but there even isn't that much diversity in which classes end up at top tier.

 

I think PoE behaves exactly as predicted.  And while I know next to nothing about the Pathfinder or Occultist, I'm willing to bet that Grinding Gear improves diversity by restricting or trivializing over-performing combinations.

[Replacement]

That said, I suggest you guys take a look at Path of Exile's method: 7 classes that are better described as 7 "career starting points."

In fact, CoH has Spines/Fire and PoE has no equivalent build. That is the epitome of "everyone will end up with one of these" because it's criminally useful.

And that's why I suggest smaller but better primaries/secondaries and a much larger emphasis on power pools.  8)

 

You know, I absolutely remember there being a handful of top-tier builds in PoE when I played.  Specifically one with some kind of like, thrown axe spamming spell build, or something.  But that was a while ago, so I went to look it up and find that not only did they move towards a more class-based system by limiting certain skills to certain Ascendancies, but there even isn't that much diversity in which classes end up at top tier.

 

I think PoE behaves exactly as predicted.  And while I know next to nothing about the Pathfinder or Occultist, I'm willing to bet that Grinding Gear improves diversity by restricting or trivializing over-performing combinations.

 

It's absolutely true that ongoing development has helped the devs "stay ahead" of too strong a meta taking root, and there have always been FotM builds, but nothing any different from any class-based game.

 

In fact, let's just be clear and frank about this: you cannot equate "has some known/favored builds" with "classless always results in a tiny number of repeated builds.". I'm not sure that's what you're arguing and I respect your opinion so I'm trying not to put words in your mouth, but that's the general tone I'm gathering from posts in this thread.  When the truth is, it is no more flawed than classed systems where people get kicked from WoW parties if they aren't specced correctly.

 

But more on topic, this is the sort of stuff where I say, ATs are enough of CoH's identity that I wouldn't eliminate them entirely in a sequel. I would, however, prefer to see them as starting points and play style suggestions, providing a clear path to great characters for players who don't get into optimization.

 

 

...ok, one more note on the classless concepts. I find classless systems don't typically fail in build diversity: their failure is in noob traps. PoE is again a great example of this. While I found all the player choice I could ever ask for, it came laden with ways to brick your character.

[EggKookoo]

...ok, one more note on the classless concepts. I find classless systems don't typically fail in build diversity: their failure is in noob traps. PoE is again a great example of this. While I found all the player choice I could ever ask for, it came laden with ways to brick your character.

 

I don't argue that classless systems always fall into preferred builds. I just think they tend to, and more so than class-based systems. They're also harder to balance. I also think that the freedom gained with a classless system is ultimately an illusion. While classless systems might not invariably result in one optimal build, they usually result in a handful of really decent builds, plus a one or two very overpowered builds, and some number of gimped builds. Those handful of decent builds essentially become classes, but you still have a larger problem of the OP and UP variants, and all the complexity of balance that is less of a problem if you just have actual classes.

 

Classless builds work better for TTRPGs where there's like 4-5 people sitting around a table. For an MMO, more structure is better.

[pattycake]

...ok, one more note on the classless concepts. I find classless systems don't typically fail in build diversity: their failure is in noob traps. PoE is again a great example of this. While I found all the player choice I could ever ask for, it came laden with ways to brick your character.

 

I don't argue that classless systems always fall into preferred builds. I just think they tend to, and more so than class-based systems. They're also harder to balance. I also think that the freedom gained with a classless system is ultimately an illusion. While classless systems might not invariably result in one optimal build, they usually result in a handful of really decent builds, plus a one or two very overpowered builds, and some number of gimped builds. Those handful of decent builds essentially become classes, but you still have a larger problem of the OP and UP variants, and all the complexity of balance that is less of a problem if you just have actual classes.

 

Classless builds work better for TTRPGs where there's like 4-5 people sitting around a table. For an MMO, more structure is better.

 

May I also add by giving to the smaller builds, dynamics which the META builds also use some how or never, just makes the OP builds even more OP.

[Snakebit]

Ditch all AT's.

 

During character creation you just select the powers you want. Want rock armor and the ability to lob fireballs? Pick it. No more "better defense for you but no defense for you". No more "You get to lock stuff down, you don't". 

Use a point system instead to purchase powers individually. The base strength of the power determines the point cost. IE If I want an aggro managing meat shield I spend most of my points on defense, taunt and a couple of points on a ranged ST attack and a couple of points on a melee cone. When I get more points, I can invest them into improving my current powers Also, I get to pick the actual effects of the power. Say I want a range ST attack that does fire damage over time plus fear and an -acc debuff. I should be able to spend development currency to get exactly that. Maybe not out of the training area, but it should be part of character progression. It would be much simpler to balance because all you have to do is change the cost of the progression currency. Or I can just get a simple attack to get me started and pick entirely new powers later.

 

 

No more levels. No more defeat XP for progression currency. Find a way to gate progression that does not involve doing the same thing over and over again. Finish a story arc, get progression currency. Run it again, get less currency than the first time. Finish a Task Force, get more than an Arc. Spend time doing things that aren't combat related but are Heroic/Villanious? Get progression currency. No more "End game" content, no more worrying about Powerleveling or not powerleveling, no more worries about balance through levels. You only have to balance against the players power. And THAT would be easy to do with a point based power gating system.

A

 

A true Nemesis system that introduces an AV for YOU at character creation. You spend your career fighting this AV/Group as your main storyline. Everyone has their very own Statesman/Recluse story. Procedurally generated content based on origin, background, and other variables that the PLAYER chooses at creation. No 2 toons will ever be the same. At all. Maybe some repeat maps, maybe some repeat common names for cohesiveness, but procedural content.

 

No freaking dead content. No more Boomtown/Faultline/Crey's Folley nonsense. Why are there SO MANY violations of Chekhov's Gun in COH? If it's in the game, it needs to be real content.

 

Oh yeah, let me meet my alts in the game.

 

 

 

[EggKookoo]

I don't know if you'll ever get a good game that lets players function as game designers. Most players don't have the interest or aptitude for that. Hell, some actual game designers don't...

[Snakebit]

I don't know if you'll ever get a good game that lets players function as game designers. Most players don't have the interest or aptitude for that. Hell, some actual game designers don't...

 

I'm not really saying the player designs the game. I'm saying the player makes choices that give the content some direction so that it is unique. Like a chatbot.

[THEDarkTyger]

10. Freeform, have any power you want, Champions did a great job with it.

 

Sorry, but are you serious? While it can be done well and would be wonderful if it is done right. Champions s*** the bed on their implementation of it.

[EggKookoo]

I'm not really saying the player designs the game. I'm saying the player makes choices that give the content some direction so that it is unique. Like a chatbot.

 

I'm saying that a la carte builds require the player to put on their "game designer" hat at least to some degree. It puts the burden of balancing those builds into the players' hands. That can work if your game audience is into that sort of thing, or perhaps with TTRPGs where a GM (a role that it at least somewhat designer-like) is involved, and that GM is only dealing with a half dozen players at most.

[Snakebit]

Balance is hugely overrated.

[justicebeliever]

Balance is hugely overrated.

 

It seems like it would helpful in ensuring that teaming continues to happen.  If there is no balance, then "gimped" builds get excluded and that seems like it would be bad...